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royal_archer
Guest
Maybe that was because in some neighborhoods people actually earn what they have.
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R
royal_archer
Guest
There is a big difference between make accessible and provide free of charge. America was the land of opportunity we made all of those things listed accessible to all who are willing to work for it. The problem comes when people do not want to contribute but instead what to raid the cauffers of those who are productive.I, as a political conservative, sympathize with your point of view and certainly have no respect for government’s ability to solve many/most social problems. OTH you are selectively reading the catechism and you really need to larn emore about the social justice teachings of the church.
"but it should make accessible to each what is needed to lead a truly human life: food, clothing, health, work, education and culture, suitable information, the right to establish a family, and so on.28 "
In particular, please not the parts I bolded.
I strongle suggest reading Leo XIII’s Rerum Novarum and purchasing a copy of the the following book:
amazon.com/Compendium-Doctrine-Pontifical-Council-Justice/dp/1574556924#noop
Think CCC does not go into a lot of detail on social justist issues. It is one area teaching where the vatican has actually published an entire book to cover the topics in more detail. That should tell you how important this area of teaching is to the church at this point in history.
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Teh_End_Is_NEAR
Guest
YEAH! We Catholics don’t owe those hungry, thirsty, sick, naked, or imprisoned people anything! If we help them it is because we choose to, not because God tells us to! It is God’s will that they be poor so that we can show our righteousness by helping them when we feel like it!
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royal_archer
Guest
It sounds like you think people investing their earnings into companies that create goods, services and jobs is a bad thing.Wealth can accumulate for investors who basically do nothing beyond the initial share purchase. Board members determine their own pay and bonuses. Some people have a disproportionate control over the wealth created, while other workers don’t have adequate bargaining power, even for the “easy” work they’re doing and struggle to pay rent.
In a free market control over wealth created is proportional to the effort invested in creating it. In a socialist system Wealth is controlled by those who did not create it.
Maybe if those people left the easy jobs and worked harder as referenced in Genesis, they would not be struggling to pay rent.
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royal_archer
Guest
not funding something is not the same as depriving.I think that depends on how old the children are that you want to deprive of medical care, schooling, and other social services while we work thier parents fingers to the bone picking fruit.
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Teh_End_Is_NEAR
Guest
Right. Obama is just doing what he can (help millions of poor people) with what is given to him (the presidency).Also, it is easy to live the life Jesus taught. Just do what you can with what you are given and let God do the rest.
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royal_archer
Guest
No we should treat them with respect as equals instead of exploiting them by keeping them constantly at the mercy of government hand out programs.YEAH! We Catholics don’t owe those hungry, thirsty, sick, naked, or imprisoned people anything! If we help them it is because we choose to, not because God tells us to! It is God’s will that they be poor so that we can show our righteousness by helping them when we feel like it!
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Teh_End_Is_NEAR
Guest
Yeah, its just maintaining their lack thereof. Its not like you’re taking it away.not funding something is not the same as depriving.
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royal_archer
Guest
He is exploiting the poor using money stolen from others. While at the same time he is undermining our medical system and forcing people out of their jobs and onto welfare.Right. Obama is just doing what he can (help millions of poor people) with what is given to him (the presidency).
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royal_archer
Guest
So are you depriving your neighbors of a TV when you lock your door?Yeah, its just maintaining their lack thereof. Its not like you’re taking it away.
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Teh_End_Is_NEAR
Guest
Its not like those people are forced to take government handouts. It sounds like you think we should keep them constantly at the mercy of the CHURCH’s hand out programs.No we should treat them with respect as equals instead of exploiting them by keeping them constantly at the mercy of government hand out programs.
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Teh_End_Is_NEAR
Guest
No, I was saying even though the “deprivation” language isn’t exactly correct, the overall premise was reasonable. I.e. maintaining the status quo is not an acceptable option.So are you depriving your neighbors of a TV when you lock your door?
It would be like someone saying that the health care bill deprives the unborn of their legal right to life. This is not true, it maintains the status quo where the unborn do not have a legal right to life.
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royal_archer
Guest
No, we want them to be productive members of society who can stand on their own two feet and hold their heads up with pride.Its not like those people are forced to take government handouts. It sounds like you think we should keep them constantly at the mercy of the CHURCH’s hand out programs.
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Teh_End_Is_NEAR
Guest
Hahaha, rhetoric devoid of content, how droll.He is exploiting the poor using money stolen from others. While at the same time he is undermining our medical system and forcing people out of their jobs and onto welfare.
If you think taxes are robbery, you can move to a country without them, say, Somalia.
The “medical system” is being changed through the insurance companies. The insurance companies are being undermined in the same way that the FDA undermines food and drug companies.
As for forcing people out of jobs, I’ll believe that when I see it.
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royal_archer
Guest
The FDA does not specify what food you have to buy.Hahaha, rhetoric devoid of content, how droll.
If you think taxes are robbery, you can move to a country without them, say, Somalia.
The “medical system” is being changed through the insurance companies. The insurance companies are being undermined in the same way that the FDA undermines food and drug companies.
As for forcing people out of jobs, I’ll believe that when I see it.
unemployment has only stayed below 10% because so many people have quit lookking for jobs. Wages have dropped 3.2 %.
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catharina
Guest
Have to ask anyone who uses this word as you did:No, we want them to be productive members of society who can stand on their own two feet and hold their heads up with pride.
When you say
“we want them to be productive members of society …” who is “we?”
Define the “we” of whom you speak.
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cynic
Guest
People here are getting more than they originally had without much additional effort. Did I say bad? It is of course essential. The fact remains that the only work involved is making a sound investment decision.It sounds like you think people investing their earnings into companies that create goods, services and jobs is a bad thing.
The examples of golden parachutes? Obscene bonuses? They pay themselves and average Joe shareholders don’t have much say in the matter.In a free market control over wealth created is proportional to the effort invested in creating it
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Tigg
Guest
This is an important part of authentic social justice teaching that many ignore. Human dignity is paramount. Someone dependent upon the state loses a very important thing - individual initiative. Where is the reward and consequent feeling of accomplishment – of having done the job with satisfaction? It also robs them of the joy of being able to help others.No, we want them to be productive members of society who can stand on their own two feet and hold their heads up with pride.
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cdeterma
Guest
As suggested I am reading Caritas in veritate. I am only to page nine of 50. There are a couple of themes to it that I want to share. The solidarity and brotherhood are essential to effective charity. It strikes me that brotherhood should be a two way street. Just as I feel my “brother” is in pain and part with some wealth to cure him, He should as my brother make an attempt to get well. If his problem is an inablility to provide for himself, then releaving his hunger is not a cure. He needs to make an attempt to become a productive member of society.
Secondly Charity must be tied to Truth (which is suggested by the title). Meaning that without charity being tied to the Trancendent (God), the goodness of it wanes and man’s development is stunted. That tells me that governmental welfare will never work to keep people out of poverty. Nor does it provide the cure.
Secondly Charity must be tied to Truth (which is suggested by the title). Meaning that without charity being tied to the Trancendent (God), the goodness of it wanes and man’s development is stunted. That tells me that governmental welfare will never work to keep people out of poverty. Nor does it provide the cure.
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portarica
Guest
I guess they aren’t "least " enough to meet Jesus’ criteria or perhaps do you think they are “too” least ?The “least” that are the "least because of circumstances beyond their control will have my help. I will not help the “least” that think it my duty to work in order to pay for their chosen non-productive lifestyle. There ought to be negative reinforcements to partying, doing drugs and dropping out of school instead of working hard, getting your school work done, and saving money. I will help those that wish to change and become productive people, forgiveness and reconciliation is always available.
I have in-laws that told me they are proud to have never worked a day in their lives. These are the kind of people I am talking about not helping.
Peace
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