Genesis of social justice

[portarica]

Yes, welfare only fosters perpetual dependency.

Where as we follow the theme repeated throughout the bible and started started in Genesis 3 we will see that individual effort is necesary and desired by God.

Actually the statistics on welfare show that the overwhelming majority remain on welfare for a relatively short period of time. There is a group that remain for longer periods of time and they are the young and uneducated at the time of their first inclusion in the system.

So if the right attention was given to this group we could minimize welfare dependence .

An alternative would be to increase the number and ease of abortions so that the young and uneducated could get on with their lives without the burden of children.

Peace

 

[catharina]

Actually the statistics on welfare show that the overwhelming majority remain on welfare for a relatively short period of time. There is a group that remain for longer periods of time and they are the young and uneducated at the time of their first inclusion in the system.

So if the right attention was given to this group we could minimize welfare dependence .

An alternative would be to increase the number and ease of abortions so that the young and uneducated could get on with their lives without the burden of children.

Peace

Adding the obvious:
… and as Catholics we will never find abortion to be acceptable as a solution for anything.

 

[portarica]

Adding the obvious:
… and as Catholics we will never find abortion to be acceptable as a solution for anything.

So the problem must be solved in some other manner. I’m glad you agree.

Peace

 

[catharina]

So the problem must be solved in some other manner. I’m glad you agree.

Peace

Totally and always.
Peace to you too.

It’s a fact that some seem to discuss Social Justice in a vacuum,
forgetting that for us in the Church, Social Justice is a Virtue.

Pope John Paul II directed all to address a preferential option for the poor.
We are to assist others, especially the poor, whenever possible.
We are not to assess their ‘worthiness’ before giving assistance.

 

[catharina]

Today’s Saint from americancatholic.org:

"April 17, 2010
St. Benedict Joseph Labre (d. 1783)

Benedict Joseph Labre was truly eccentric, one of God’s special little ones. Born in France and the eldest of 18 children, he studied under his uncle, a parish priest. Because of poor health and a lack of suitable academic preparation he was unsuccessful in his attempts to enter the religious life. Then, at 16 years of age, a profound change took place. Benedict lost his desire to study and gave up all thoughts of the priesthood, much to the consternation of his relatives.

He became a pilgrim, traveling from one great shrine to another, living off alms. He wore the rags of a beggar and shared his food with the poor. Filled with the love of God and neighbor, Benedict had special devotion to the Blessed Mother and to the Blessed Sacrament. In Rome, where he lived in the Colosseum for a time, he was called “the poor man of the Forty Hours Devotion” and “the beggar of Rome.” The people accepted his ragged appearance better than he did. His excuse to himself was that “our comfort is not in this world.”

On the last day of his life, April 16, 1783, Benedict Joseph dragged himself to a church in Rome and prayed there for two hours before he collapsed, dying peacefully in a nearby house. Immediately after his death the people proclaimed him a saint.

He was officially proclaimed a saint by Pope Leo XIII at canonization ceremonies in 1883.

Comment:

In a modern inner city, one local character kneels for hours on the sidewalk and prays. Swathed in his entire wardrobe winter and summer, he greets passersby with a blessing. Where he sleeps no one knows, but he is surely a direct spiritual descendant of Benedict, the ragged man who slept in the ruins of Rome’s Colosseum. These days we ascribe such behavior to mental illness; Benedict’s contemporaries called him holy. Holiness is always a bit mad by earthly standards."

 

[portarica]

Totally and always.
Peace to you too.

It’s a fact that some seem to discuss Social Justice in a vacuum,
forgetting that for us in the Church, Social Justice is a Virtue.

Pope John Paul II directed all to address a preferential option for the poor.
We are to assist others, especially the poor, whenever possible.
We are not to assess their ‘worthiness’ before giving assistance.

When we look at social justice in a vacuum, I think we fail to realize that Jesus’ concept of the least , was potentially everyone we encounter. And that includes ourselves when we get up and look at the image in the mirror.

When we start thinking of ourselves as being “better” than the least , on some level it puts us above Jesus who may be in the guise of the least.

I used to be afraid of the concept of eternity and existence of God for all time, now I realize that Jesus advanced a concept that is just as encompassing , we have to be aware that everyone of our actions has the potential to impact Him through its impact on the least.

Scary, but also potentially liberating as it gives justification for every act of kindness.

Peace

 

[catharina]

:yup:

When we look at social justice in a vacuum, I think we fail to realize that Jesus’ concept of the least , was potentially everyone we encounter. And that includes ourselves when we get up and look at the image in the mirror.

When we start thinking of ourselves as being “better” than the least , on some level it puts us above Jesus who may be in the guise of the least.

I used to be afraid of the concept of eternity and existence of God for all time, now I realize that Jesus advanced a concept that is just as encompassing , we have to be aware that everyone of our actions has the potential to impact Him through its impact on the least.

Scary, but also potentially liberating as it gives justification for every act of kindness.

Peace

Beautifully stated. Again, thank you so much.

:yup:

 

[Tigg]

I don’t know why, but it always happens on these social justice threads that some level of moral high ground is taken which automatically assumes if you believe in subsidiarity and solidarity (as defined by past papal letters) and disagree with certain fundamental principles of marxist/socialism that you are somehow not showing love and concern for the poor.

How very unfortunate that the dangers of liberation theology which we have been warned against, still very much remain a force to be reckoned with!

 

[markbrumbaugh]

:yup:

Beautifully stated. Again, thank you so much.

:yup:

Nice words, and I don’t have anything against personal charity…quite the contrary.
On the other hand, one cannot do good with other people’s stolen private property.

Social Justice, as espoused by the USCCB, is not justice at all, it is Democratic Party redistribution of wealth, and it is wrong, wrong wrong. It will kill the golden goose that has provided the opportunity for us to even contemplate such theft.

 

[Galnextdoor]

I nearly left the church last week at confirmation class. I’m older and am taking classes to get confirmed since I have returned to the church. The issue was social justice. The class leader said that their Faith Formation Minister class put on by the diocese said that social and distributive justice is necessary to live the christian life. That class she was tought in said, “as wealth accumulates in a community it is the government’s job to equitably distribute that wealth.” This is communism! Wealth doesn’t accumulate, it is earned and created through effort and work. If the catholic church is about that then either I’ll find a new church or some changes need to be made.

Check out my thread Sins of Relativism, Soft-Despotism and Progressivism. The class leader has adopted a secular/socialist view of social justice, rather than what the church teaches.

 

[catharina]

I don’t know why, but it always happens on these social justice threads that some level of moral high ground is taken which automatically assumes if you believe in subsidiarity and solidarity (as defined by past papal letters) and disagree with certain fundamental principles of marxist/socialism that you are somehow not showing love and concern for the poor.

How very unfortunate that the dangers of liberation theology which we have been warned against, still very much remain a force to be reckoned with!

Very sad post and commentary.
Informative to know though, that you prefer taking a moral low ground.

 

[catharina]

Nice words, and I don’t have anything against personal charity…quite the contrary.
On the other hand, one cannot do good with other people’s stolen private property.

Social Justice, as espoused by the USCCB, is not justice at all, it is Democratic Party redistribution of wealth, and it is wrong, wrong wrong. **This is according to YOU. ** It will kill the golden goose that has provided the opportunity for us to even contemplate such theft.

What do your do with your time when you’re not insulting the Bishops?

 

[royal_archer]

It was posts, not a post. I’ll start with one of them again:

You posted:
Can’t you trust that God was wise when he allowed some to accumuate wealth? Could it be that those who were entrusted with the wealth were given it because they would make the right choices?

My oh my.

That sounds like a revival song of the Know Nothing party.
‘Some are wealthy.
Some are poor.
I help ONLY the deserving poor.’

The attitude was adopted and used to obstruct immigration of the poor fleeing famine in Catholic Ireland. The genesis of the attitude were the Elizabethan English poor laws, set up to aid those faithful to the monarchy - that is those who “saved” their personal wealth by saluting “the new church” of Henry VIII. The goal: that they not feel too badly about the newly poor (Catholics); some they would help, most could stay poor.

Our belief in God, hope in God, love of God does not extend to supposing He arranges for your personal wealth and comfort - because you’re so terrific. “Trust in GOD” does not imply applause for the personal wealth of others. On the contrary.

To support that thinking would include its opposite: God uses poverty to punish the stupid.

Our Lord Jesus Christ gave us an example of a life lived in simplicity, in humilty,
closer to poverty than to wealth. What does that teach us? Quite a bit, one would hope.

Best example of personal wealth?
Maybe Joseph of Arimithea, using his personal wealth wisely, giving the tomb for the burial of Christ.
The Social Justice of our Faith is a Virtue.

I didn’t say that God gives them wealth based on their goodness. I said some are given wealth because they will make good use of it. For instance Henry Ford who used his blessings to bring cars to the working man. I believe he was not entrusted with that money because of his moral stature but because of his skill in industry.

 

[royal_archer]

Actually the statistics on welfare show that the overwhelming majority remain on welfare for a relatively short period of time. There is a group that remain for longer periods of time and they are the young and uneducated at the time of their first inclusion in the system.

So if the right attention was given to this group we could minimize welfare dependence .

HMMM, maybe we should give every person a free education, oh wait we already do that. There is no reason for someone to complain they they are uneducated.

By the way, do you have a reference for those “statistics”?

An alternative would be to increase the number and ease of abortions so that the young and uneducated could get on with their lives without the burden of children.

Peace

That is sick.

 

[catharina]

I didn’t say that God gives them wealth based on their goodness. I said some are given wealth because they will make good use of it. For instance Henry Ford who used his blessings to bring cars to the working man. I believe he was not entrusted with that money because of his moral stature but because of his skill in industry.

I know what you said:
Can’t you trust that God was wise when he allowed some to accumuate wealth? Could it be that those who were entrusted with the wealth were given it because they would make the right choices?

I find no basis in Faith for those ideas.

Now off to work for me.

 

[markbrumbaugh]

What do your do with your time when you’re not insulting the Bishops?

This is an offensive and completely off topic remark. If you want to talk to me and argue, fine.

 

[portarica]

HMMM, maybe we should give every person a free education, oh wait we already do that. There is no reason for someone to complain they they are uneducated.

By the way, do you have a reference for those “statistics”?

That is sick.

Just google the stats on welfare rates and length of time on welfare.I’d say it is the studies that were used to generalize about welfare, but I doubt the person who made those conclusions can come up with a cite.

As to the abortion question, if you don’t want to help the lot of the young and uneducated girls, who are most likely to get pregnant, you might as well be prepared for more abortions.

That is because abortions are prevented when that class of most likely to get pregnant girls gets help.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too, as the saying goes. If you don’t help the young and uneducated population who get pregnant, the abortion rate rises.

Again, it speaks to how entwined the least are with us.

Peace

 

[Galnextdoor]

The redistribution of wealth takes away the opportunity for rich men to practice the corporal works of mercy. They are forced to donate through taxes instead from their heart and free will. The redistribution of wealth takes away an opportunity for men to get closer to God by taking away an opportunity for them to gain grace.

Eventually everyone ends up poor with their hands out waiting for the government to help them.

The bible says “If anyone will not work, let him not eat.” 2 Thess 3:10

The Catholic Catechism has whole sections on Social Doctrine and Social Justice.

In paragraph 2425 states the “Church has rejected the totalitarianism and atheistic ideologies associated in modern times with communism or socialism.”

Paragraph 2427 states “Human work proceeds directly from persons created in the image of God and called to prolong the work of creation by subduing the earth both with and for one another.” Jesus worked as a carpenter while He was here on earth.

2428 says that “Everyone should be able to draw from work the means of providing for his life and that of his family, and of serving the human community.”

In 2431 in the responsibility of the state one of the responsibilities is to guarantee individual freedom and the right to own private property. “Hence the principal task of the state is to guarantee this security, so that those who work and produce can enjoy the fruits of their labors and thus feel encouraged to work efficiently and honestly…”

The seventh commandment forbids the usurpation of someone’s goods against the reasonable will of the owner. Alms should be given, not taken.

 

[catharina]

This is an offensive and completely off topic remark. If you want to talk to me and argue, fine.

Guess you failed to see my comment in Post 106. So, here it is again:

Originally Posted by markbrumbaugh  
"*Nice words, and I don't have anything against personal charity...quite the contrary.
On the other hand, one cannot do good with other people's stolen private property.

Social Justice, as espoused by the USCCB, is not justice at all, it is Democratic Party redistribution of wealth, and it is wrong, wrong wrong. *

**This is according to YOU.** 

*It will kill the golden goose that has provided the opportunity for us to even contemplate such theft*."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry to have distracted you with a question.

 

[catharina]

The redistribution of wealth takes away the opportunity for rich men to practice the corporal works of mercy. They are forced to donate through taxes instead from their heart and free will. The redistribution of wealth takes away an opportunity for men to get closer to God by taking away an opportunity for them to gain grace.

Eventually everyone ends up poor with their hands out waiting for the government to help them.

The bible says “If anyone will not work, let him not eat.” 2 Thess 3:10
The Catholic Catechism has whole sections on Social Doctrine and Social Justice.

In paragraph 2425 states the “Church has rejected the totalitarianism and atheistic ideologies associated in modern times with communism or socialism.”

Paragraph 2427 states “Human work proceeds directly from persons created in the image of God and called to prolong the work of creation by subduing the earth both with and for one another.” Jesus worked as a carpenter while He was here on earth.

2428 says that “Everyone should be able to draw from work the means of providing for his life and that of his family, and of serving the human community.”

In 2431 in the responsibility of the state one of the responsibilities is to guarantee individual freedom and the right to own private property. “Hence the principal task of the state is to guarantee this security, so that those who work and produce can enjoy the fruits of their labors and thus feel encouraged to work efficiently and honestly…”

The seventh commandment forbids the usurpation of someone’s goods against the reasonable will of the owner. Alms should be given, not taken.

The Catholic translation best known to me states:

**"2 THESS 3:10

“In fact, when we were with you, we instructed you that if anyone was unwilling to work, neither should that one eat.” **

IOW, there are those who might be willing to work
but who do NOT or can NOT work.
There’s a fine distinction there for us.