Genesis v Evolution

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In a recent statement, Pope Benedict told the faithful to not choose between Creation and Evolution and that Evolution is not a scientifically proven theory. I will stand by this and await further clarification from the Church.

This matter is being used as a propaganda tool by various groups, not as science. Science is of no value unless it has some practical application. It appears that the science behind Evolution is primarily being used to promote Atheism.

God bless,
Ed
 
wildleafblower said:
steveandersen;2715089:
Evolution is completely compatible with faith as is every other facet of science. (The use
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that folks put that knowledge to might be incompatible but that is another matter)
😦
Hi Steve:)

I’ve always considered you one of the brightest of the bunch.🙂 A very polished gentleman. I’m being picky as far as semantics goes with concern that the word compatible within your statement might imply that there isn’t a “Separation of Church and State”. Evolution is ‘science’ and faith is ‘an encounter with the living God’ which has been announced by a religious institution:

On December 25, 2005 BENEDICTUS PP. XVI stated, "Faith by its specific nature is an encounter with the living God—an encounter opening up new horizons extending beyond the sphere of reason. But it is also a purifying force for reason itself. From God’s standpoint, faith liberates reason from its blind spots and therefore helps it to be ever more fully itself. Faith enables reason to do its work more effectively and to see its proper object more clearly. This is where Catholic social doctrine has its place: it has no intention of giving the Church power over the State. Even less is it an attempt to impose on those who do not share the faith ways of thinking and modes of conduct proper to faith. Its aim is simply to help purify reason and to contribute, here and now, to the acknowledgment and attainment of what is just.
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/b...ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html

My thought runs in this direction, faith isn’t compatible with science that is why it isn’t taught in public schools because the First Amendment of the United States Constitution is a separation of Church and State.

Gee, I hope I worded that correctly. My days have been long of late.
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Steve, I neglected to mention within my message that there are over a billion Catholics on planet Earth .👍
 
edwest2 said:
In a recent statement, Pope Benedict told the faithful to not choose between Creation and Evolution

God bless,
Ed
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Yet you still go and choose creationism over science, even though you have been told specifically not to choose between the two!🙂
 
edwest2 said:
It appears that the science behind Evolution is primarily being used to promote Atheism.

God bless Ed
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By some. However, this does not prove, by itself, that evolution is itself is a propaganda tool made up by atheists, in some insain conspiracy to overthrow the kingdom of heaven.

I think God was wise in allowing Darwin to be a pioneer in the Evolution theory.
 
wildleafblower said:
Hi Steve:)
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Hi,Wild (Can I call you Wild?)
wildleafblower said:
I’ve always considered you one of the brightest of the bunch.🙂 A very polished gentleman.
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My humble thanks but there are quite a few people here who could mop the floor with me (figuratively speaking)

God grant me the strength to keep my mouth shut and my fingers still when I’m out of my depth.
wildleafblower said:
I’m being picky as far as semantics goes with concern that the word compatible within your statement might imply that there isn’t a “Separation of Church and State”. Evolution is ‘science’ and faith is ‘an encounter with the living God’ which has been announced by a religious institution:
SNIP<
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Hmmm
I never thought about it in that way.

Of course I went to Catholic school and so we were taught science and religion in class so I never saw such a distinction.

I guess in a global sense the US is only 5% of the world’s population. Many nations don’t have similar separations.

What I was trying to say was that science was one more way to understand Creation
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edwest2 said:
Science is of no value unless it has some practical application.
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Now isn’t that a shockingly utilitarian view of the world? You’re not a secret disciple of JS Mill are you?

Some of us think that doing and learning science is a noble calling in its own right that needs no hard-boiled excuse. The value of pure science transcends the purview of the little Gradgrinds of the world and stands alongside art and literature and music as one of the finest occupations of humanity.

I thought you’d like this mischievous quote by the great British physicist, Paul Dirac:

“In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it’s the exact opposite”

Alec
evolutionpages.com
 
Koru said:
Evolution can only be compatible with faith if it is PROVEN as true. Since macroevolution has not been proven and cannot be proven, there will be no official standing on the Church regarding the issue… Since the Church is chiefly concerned with the salvation of mankind, the specifics concerning the how of evolution is not necessary to gain salvation.

One must also believe in the judgements of man (which is the casting out of Paradise and in the worldwide flood).

But long story short, if you believe in evolution… there are strict guidelines one must follow. Believing in evolution is acceptable under those conditions. But, in the same breath… I’d also point out that simply because something is permissable to believe in doesn’t make it something one SHOULD believe in.

Yes, evolution is compatible with the faith under many strict guidelines and barriers. No, evolutionary origin shouldn’t be believed even if it is permissible and acceptable under these guidelines. Special Creation as been taught throughout the ages and has no strict guidelines because it is taught in sacred scripture as well as being taught since before and after Christ’s life and death. Special Creation is the only origin story that the Church has taught as truth, the Church has not and will not teach theEvolutionary origin story as fact. She can only make the theory compatible with the faith so that She doesn’t lose many of the faithful.

I can only suggest that people watch the First International Convention for the Catholic Doctrine of Creation. I see no reason to believe in evolutionary origin and that conference explains a lot of the reasons why.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6

Also, I’d like to announce that I cannot be as active on this website as I have been this past week or so because business has gotten pretty hectic. I’ll try to participate as much as possible so please don’t bombard me with 50 questions a day >_< at least give me a chance to defend my side. Thanks!

(maybe somebody will rise to the challenge in my place while I’m gone 👍)

God Bless,
~Cole
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Interesting - I’ll be sure to take a look at it.
 
freesoulhope said:
By some. However, this does not prove, by itself, that evolution is itself is a propaganda tool made up by atheists, in some insain conspiracy to overthrow the kingdom of heaven.

I think God was wise in allowing Darwin to be a pioneer in the Evolution theory.
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Insane conspiracy? After Darwin, what was an atheist to say? “I don’t believe in God for no particular reason?”

A Creation Museum opens and Rally For Reason protests against it, a group primarily supported by atheists. Hmmm… there seems to be a connection.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Insane conspiracy? After Darwin, what was an atheist to say? “I don’t believe in God for no particular reason?”
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I’m not one but I would guess that they would need a reason to believe rather than a reason not to.

There were atheists before Darwin after all and since there are plenty of non-atheists who agree with modern biology then apparently it is not in and of itself a reason to abandon belief.

There is a guy out there now (I forget his name off the top of my head) promoting his book in which he says that we should get rid of religion completely. He cites instances such as the poisoned kool-aid at Jonestown and the 9/11 highjackers as evidence to his opinion that religion in general is an outmoded social construct at best and at worst a destructive evil. He of course is wrong BUT it sounds similar to your line of thinking that if something is used for purposes that you don’t like then it must be wrong in all instances.
edwest2 said:
A Creation Museum opens and Rally For Reason protests against it, a group primarily supported by atheists. Hmmm… there seems to be a connection.

God bless,
Ed
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Just because Atheists do something doesn’t mean that it is wrong.
The creation museum should be protested because it is bad science and a scandal to the faithful.
 
How is it bad science? Scandal to the faithful? How? God said he created everything.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
How is it bad science?
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It shows cavemen with dinosaurs (I kid you not)
And claims that the world is only a few thousand years old
edwest2 said:
Scandal to the faithful? How?
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By giving non-believers the false impression that to be a Christian you must think that dinosaurs and cavemen were contemporaneous and/or otherwise deny modern science.

It makes conducting apologetics more difficult
edwest2 said:
God said he created everything.

God bless,
Ed
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Yes God did say that He created everything.
 
Some of the workers at the Creation Museum became Christians because of it. There are Christians who believe men and dinosaurs lived together. Why is that so far fetched for you? There are writings and artifacts that indicate this.

For a long time, what was described as “the leap of faith” seemed the hardest thing for men to grasp intellectually. The way I see it, outsiders are saying you must believe in evolution in order to remain a true Christian. This is being peddled a lot more than the idea that dinosaurs and men lived together.

Gd bless,
Ed
 
A quick weigh-in from someone who has been around a while.

Anything proven thfough science has to be true. (duh) The problem with theories is many want us to accept them as truths.

Right now, E=Mc2, has a kink that is causing problems. It seems that the "Big Bang " theory has been challenged - instead of the universe slowing down, it is expanding. Now “dark energy” and “dark matter” are getting the attention. Why is it called “dark”. Because no one has any idea what it is - only that there is a huge amount of it.

To this weak brain, I can find no reason to deny a creator. It makes more sense to believe there was “something” before the universe(s) and we who believe in a creator call that something God. Beyond that, who knows?

And that Big Bang; a bang of what and why and how? Those who try to intimidate deists are atheists and both are a choice of faith - not knowledge.
 
Those who believe there can be no proof in science believe in too strict a definition of proof or of science. Germs do exist. Specific germs cause specific disease and are killed by specific drugs.

A lot of mathematics can be and has been proven.

There is no known proof of the presence or absence of a devine creator. That is faith.
 
I am sorry if my comments were taken to mean anyone n this thread was denying divine love or God. My comments about the Bg Bang and science us often supported from an atheistic view point. Please - no aspersions to anyone on the thread- or anyone else specifically. I am a deist - I aspire to believe in a creator.

Peace and God’s love to all
 
Rhys said:
I am sorry if my comments were taken to mean anyone n this thread was denying divine love or God. My comments about the Bg Bang and science us often supported from an atheistic view point. Please - no aspersions to anyone on the thread- or anyone else specifically. I am a deist - I aspire to believe in a creator.

Peace and God’s love to all
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Humm. His Holiness John Paul II wrote in his book Crossing The Threshold Of Hope, “God who is love”. He also said to the members of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on November 9, 2003, “Our gatherings have also enabled me to clarify important aspects of the Church’s doctrine and life relating to scientific research. We are united in our common desire to correct misunderstandings and even more to allow ourselves to be enlightened by the one Truth which governs the world and guides the lives of all men and women. I am more and more convinced that scientific truth which is itself a participation in divine Truth, can help philosophy and theology to understand ever more fully the human person and God’s Revelation about man, a Revelation that is completed and perfected in Jesus Christ. For this important mutual enrichment in the search for the truth and the benefit of mankind, I am, with the whole Church, profoundly grateful.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdscien/archivio/acta17_anniversary/part1.pdf

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...cdscien/archivio/acta17_anniversary/part1.pdf

Not once have I ever read or heard my favorite, dearly beloved Pope John Paul II call science atheistic nor did he call scientists’ atheists . The Holy See has a Scientific Advisory Committee comprised of scientists that believe in God and some who don’t. It doesn’t matter to the Church. 🙂 I’m a blessed woman because I can believe in God for those who don’t. That is how strong my love and faith in Jesus and God is! 😃 Powerful stuff when you have those two behind you!
 
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