Genesis v Evolution

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Valke2 said:
panetheism (sp?) would not, I think, go against Church teaching (I’m no expert on this).
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I think it would benefit you and other Catholic viewers to read the following in its entirety:

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CULTURE
PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE
JESUS CHRIST
THE BEARER OF THE WATER OF LIFE
A Christian reflection on the “New Age”

It would be unwise and untrue to say that everything connected with the New Age movement is good, or that everything about it is bad. Nevertheless, given the underlying vision of New Age religiosity, it is on the whole difficult to reconcile it with Christian doctrine and spirituality.(1.4. The New Age and Catholic faith)

AND

Gnosis: in a generic sense, it is a form of knowledge that is not intellectual, but visionary or mystical, thought to be revealed and capable of joining the human being to the divine mystery. In the first centuries of Christianity, the Fathers of the Church struggled against gnosticism, inasmuch as it was at odds with faith. Some see a reborth of gnostic ideas in much New Age thinking, and some authors connected with New Age actually quote early gnosticism. However,* the greater emphasis in New Age on monism and even pantheism or panentheism encourages some to use the term neo-gnosticism to distinguish New Age gnosis from ancient gnosticism**. * (7.2. A Select Glossary)

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html#1.4.%20The%20New%20Age%20and%20Catholic%20Faith
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...e_en.html#1.4. The New Age and Catholic Faith

My personal opinion, anyone who claims to be a true Christian of the Roman Catholic Church and promotes or is drawn to New Age stuff is sailing into the sunset with a sinking boat.
 
wildleafblower said:
I think it would benefit you and other Catholic viewers to read the following in its entirety:

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CULTURE
PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE
JESUS CHRIST
THE BEARER OF THE WATER OF LIFE
A Christian reflection on the “New Age”

…However, the greater emphasis in New Age on monism and even pantheism or panentheism encourages some to use the term neo-gnosticism to distinguish New Age gnosis from ancient gnosticism**. (7.2. A Select Glossary)

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html#1.4.%20The%20New%20Age%20and%20Catholic%20Faith
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...e_en.html#1.4. The New Age and Catholic Faith

My personal opinion, anyone who claims to be a true Christian of the Roman Catholic Church and promotes or is drawn to New Age stuff is sailing into the sunset with a sinking boat.
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Sorry, but the Pontifical Council’s definition of “panENtheism” is absolutely incorrect:
Pontifical Council:
There is talk of God, but it is not a personal God; the God of which* New Age* speaks is neither personal nor transcendent. Nor is it the Creator and sustainer of the universe, but an “impersonal energy” immanent in the world, with which it forms a “cosmic unity”: “All is one”. This unity is monistic, pantheistic or, more precisely, panentheistic. God is the “life-principle”, the “spirit or soul of the world”, the sum total of consciousness existing in the world. In a sense, everything is God.
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The Council equates “pantheism” with “panENtheism” – which is a huge misunderstanding of what panENtheism is all about.😃
 
wildleafblower said:
I think it would benefit you and other Catholic viewers to read the following in its entirety:

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CULTURE
PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE
JESUS CHRIST
THE BEARER OF THE WATER OF LIFE
A Christian reflection on the “New Age”

It would be unwise and untrue to say that everything connected with the New Age movement is good, or that everything about it is bad. Nevertheless, given the underlying vision of New Age religiosity, it is on the whole difficult to reconcile it with Christian doctrine and spirituality.(1.4. The New Age and Catholic faith)

AND

Gnosis: in a generic sense, it is a form of knowledge that is not intellectual, but visionary or mystical, thought to be revealed and capable of joining the human being to the divine mystery. In the first centuries of Christianity, the Fathers of the Church struggled against gnosticism, inasmuch as it was at odds with faith. Some see a reborth of gnostic ideas in much New Age thinking, and some authors connected with New Age actually quote early gnosticism. However,* the greater emphasis in New Age on monism and even pantheism or panentheism encourages some to use the term neo-gnosticism to distinguish New Age gnosis from ancient gnosticism***. (7.2. A Select Glossary)

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html#1.4.%20The%20New%20Age%20and%20Catholic%20Faith
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...e_en.html#1.4. The New Age and Catholic Faith

My personal opinion, anyone who claims to be a true Christian of the Roman Catholic Church and promotes or is drawn to New Age stuff is sailing into the sunset with a sinking boat.
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You Say:
Code: 
 "My personal opinion anyone who claims to be a true Christian of the roman chatholic church and promotes or is drawn to new age stuff is sailing into the sunset with a sinking boat"

   Most people who are catholic probably including yourself  because you were indoctrinated into this traditional system by your parents.  You were probably not allowed to learn anything else growing up.   Organized religion is mostly a family tradition handed down by genertions.  Not really a belief system.  Protestant, Jews, Hindus, Muslims etc. the same thing.  If you happened to be born in a western culture (luck of the draw) you probably followed Jesus.  Born anywhere else your parents would have drilled that faith into you and you would probably not even be on this forum.  and that is a FACT!
 
drpmjhess said:
SpiritMeadow, sigh – you’re right. Hey, if you want to meet in the dark alley tonight, I’ve got several kilos of pure Columbian panetheism for sale, enough for you and your entire congregation…

Your friendly neighborhood panentheism pusher
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Tee hee…to be sure…again…so sorry, this has got you so embroiled with the far right.
edwest2 said:
According to the Library on this site. Genesis 1 is actual history. Adam and Eve were actual people and the Church rejects the idea that they were not the parents of all of us living today - see Humani Generis.

God bless,
Ed
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And away we go again.

In 1950, Pope Pius XII, in his encyclical Humani Generis, signaled acceptance of the basic principles of evolutionary theory.
““The church does not forbid that…… research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from preexistent and living matter,”” Pius wrote.

Pope John Paul II extended this idea.
““The theory of natural evolution, understood in a sense that does not exclude divine causality, is not in principle opposed to the truth about the creation of the visible world as presented in the Book of Genesis,”” the pope said.
John Paul went further in a 1996 message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, referring to evolution as ““more than a hypothesis.””
““It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge,”” John Paul wrote. ““The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory."

The truth will not go away no matter how desperately one attempts to obfuscate, ignore, and turn a blind eye. I would like to think one’s Catholic faith is based on something more substantial than that offered by our fundamentalist bible literalists.
 
Spiritmeadow, you seem frustrated that someone accepts with Faith the content of Genesis. This book of our Bible is divinely inspired per Dei Verbum. It represents Truth. Indeed, “the Truth will not go away.”

Impalass - you state organized religion is mostly a family tradition and not a belief system. Wow. I must respond that it is both a family tradition and the greatest belief system. Concise summaries of the system are available in catechism books - I recommend: Vision Books - My First Catechism.

Ahimsa - to state a Pontifical Council is incorrect causes me to raise an eyebrow. :ehh: Perhaps the definition you and the council are using are different.

Wildleafblower - I agree with you on the ultimate end of new age material. I have watched this de-rail many people away from the faith. To dabble in this area without a very solid foundation, upon the Rock, is like wandering into enemy territory totally unaware.
 
rskempf said:
Ahimsa - to state a Pontifical Council is incorrect causes me to raise an eyebrow. :ehh: Perhaps the definition you and the council are using are different.
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Yes, the Pontificial Council is using “panENtheism” incorrectly.
 
rskempf said:
Spiritmeadow, you seem frustrated that someone accepts with Faith the content of Genesis. This book of our Bible is divinely inspired per Dei Verbum. It represents Truth. Indeed, “the Truth will not go away.”

Yep I’m beginning to see it as willful refusal to even admit that the Church requires no such belief. If you want to believe in YEC, be my guest, but don’t tell me the Church requiresany such belief, and don’t deliberately parse documents to make it appear that it does, or worse, just simply claim it does.

As the Church says, She believes the bible to be inerrent as to faith and salvation. She does not claim it to be either a history book or a biology book.
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rskempf said:
Spiritmeadow, you seem frustrated that someone accepts with Faith the content of Genesis. This book of our Bible is divinely inspired per Dei Verbum. It represents Truth. Indeed, “the Truth will not go away.”

Impalass - you state organized religion is mostly a family tradition and not a belief system. Wow. I must respond that it is both a family tradition and the greatest belief system. Concise summaries of the system are available in catechism books - I recommend: Vision Books - My First Catechism.

Ahimsa - to state a Pontifical Council is incorrect causes me to raise an eyebrow. :ehh: Perhaps the definition you and the council are using are different.

Wildleafblower - I agree with you on the ultimate end of new age material. I have watched this de-rail many people away from the faith. To dabble in this area without a very solid foundation, upon the Rock, is like wandering into enemy territory totally unaware.
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Why is it the greatest belief system? Because you say so. Narrow vision. I read the catechism books back in the 50s.
 
To my fellow Catholics, here is the information you need.

catholic.com/library/adam_eve_and_evolution.asp

Allow me to highlight a few parts by quoting them:

It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis I as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.

It is equally impermissable to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2-3) as a fiction.

The acount of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.

This is bedrock Church teaching, not to be ignored. I recommend listening to the Church and only the Church in regard to this matter.

God bless,
Ed
 
Impalass,

It is the greatest system because it was provided to us by God, who is perfect. The winds of hell will blow against it, trivialize it, and dismiss it as “unscientific.” Adhere to it in faith and you will experience peace.
 
edwest2 said:
This is bedrock Church teaching, not to be ignored. I recommend listening to the Church and only the Church in regard to this matter. God bless,Ed
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Ed, to which Church do you belong? Evidently not that of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, as they do not have a problem with modern science and with a non-literal reading of those parts of scripture written in a pre-scientific idiom.

Petrus
 
rskempf said:
Impalass, It is the greatest system because it was provided to us by God, who is perfect. The winds of hell will blow against it, trivialize it, and dismiss it as “unscientific.” Adhere to it in faith and you will experience peace.
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rskempf, what do you mean by Genesis as a “system”? And what are these winds of hell blowing against your cheek? I have not felt them in the lab. Nor have my Roman Catholic biologist colleagues.

Petrus
 
edwest2 said:
According to the Library on this site. Genesis 1 is actual history. Adam and Eve were actual people and the Church rejects the idea that they were not the parents of all of us living today - see Humani Generis.God bless, Ed
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Ed, that library is outdated. There are books in our local library claiming that the earth is flat, that heliocentrism is false, and that infection is caused by demons. I refuse to follow their teachings. Time and scientific advance alter human understanding of the world. Most people eventually grow up and think like adults, and we are grateful for this intellectual maturation process, as it enriches our faith about God’s creation.
 
I strongly disagree with you. All of the Library’s information is up to date and free of moral and doctrinal errors. As far as thinking like adults, we, as Catholics, need to understand that the foundation of our Church is the living God which, according to some, science cannot prove, but as I heard on Catholic radio a few days ago, can de discovered by natural reason.

We are without excuse.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
I strongly disagree with you. All of the Library’s information is up to date and free of moral and doctrinal errors. As far as thinking like adults, we, as Catholics, need to understand that the foundation of our Church is the living God which, according to some, science cannot prove, but as I heard on Catholic radio a few days ago, can de discovered by natural reason. We are without excuse. God bless,Ed
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Ed, I never said the CAF library includes material with moral or doctrinal errors. What I meant is that if the library includes material woefully out of date on the germ theory of disease, or on post-Newtonian cosmology, or on post-Einsteinian physics, or on biology after William Paley (d. 1805), or on biblical hermeneutics after 1870, we have an intellectual and moral obligation to move beyond these ancient perspectives.

Petrus
 
edwest2 said:
I am in full agreement with Humani Generis, published in 1950. Adam and Eve were our first parents.God bless, Ed
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Ed, if a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? Or if he ask for twenty-first century science, will he give him nineteenth-century science?

Petrus sum
 
Ahimsa said:
Sorry, but the Pontifical Council’s definition of “panENtheism” is absolutely incorrect:
The Council equates “pantheism” with “panENtheism” – which is a huge misunderstanding of what panENtheism is all about.😃
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Ahimsa, you are absolutely correct, even if I am not hereby “pushing” panentheism.

Petrus sum
 
edwest2 said:
To my fellow Catholics, here is the information you need.

catholic.com/library/adam_eve_and_evolution.asp

Allow me to highlight a few parts by quoting them:

It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis I as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.

It is equally impermissable to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2-3) as a fiction.

The acount of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.

This is bedrock Church teaching, not to be ignored. I recommend listening to the Church and only the Church in regard to this matter.

God bless,
Ed
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I am…So why are you listening to apologetics instead?
 
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