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StudentMI
Guest
Great for the Church. I don’t see how to reconcile the God they preach today however with the genocide ordering God of the Bible, though.
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StudentMI
Guest
I don’t know if I believe in God so it’s hard to answer this question.
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StudentMI
Guest
Nope. But that hardly justifies genocide and murder of children, my friend.
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StudentMI
Guest
If you want to go on a discussion about what murder is and whether it can be justified, do so. I’m not really interested.
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StudentMI
Guest
So now murdering babies needs to be qualified by semantic exactitude. Okay.
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StudentMI
Guest
So why are you opposed to abortion?
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StudentMI
Guest
Which means God can change his teaching according to circumstances.
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StudentMI
Guest
So God couldn’t just say kill the adults but take the children under your wing?
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StudentMI
Guest
So babies had to be killed because of God’s will.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
Nope. He said it shouldn’t be used given the circumstances nations have.
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StudentMI
Guest
Seems to be some debate on that. But we digress from the topic.
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Freddy
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You are missing the point. Notwithstanding that it is reported that it was God’s judgement and cannot be verified by any stretch of the imagination, anyone who believes that God commands anything can feel justified in carrying out what they think is His will.Freddy:
Your explanation leaves out several facts.
First, God did this with clear and recognizable signs. No one could see what Moses saw or hear what Moses heard and deny otherwise.
Second it’s not the first time God gave instructions similar to this.
Then the Lord said to Abram: Know for certain that your descendants will reside as aliens in a land not their own, where they shall be enslaved and oppressed for four hundred years. But I will bring judgment on the nation they must serve, and after this they will go out with great wealth. In the fourth generation your descendants will return here, for the wickedness of the Amorites is not yet complete.
Genesis 15:13-14, 16 NABRE
It’s only dangerous to the reader who finds fault with God.
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Julius_Caesar
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MNathaniel
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If you think certain sufferers of schizophrenia lack what they believe to be “clear and recognizable signs” that they should kill an innocent person, I think you’re the one missing the point.
(Or do you think a person whose mental illness leads them to believe God has sent them clear, recognizable signs that they should kill an innocent, is indeed morally obliged to kill the innocent instead of morally obliged not to?)
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historyfan81
Guest
Frank Turek makes a good argument that its most likely near eastern language that conveys exageration
since there are some things that contradict the whole whiped out thing great example is Deuteronomy 7
And when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons.
now how is any of the isrealities going to intermarry with them if they are all dead?
this same applies with joshua
till, at the end of Joshua’s life it was clear that many Canaanites continued to live in the land, left to be driven out gradually by the next generation (Josh. 23:12-13, Judges 1:21, 27-28). According to Copan, if Joshua did all that was expected of him, yet multitudes of Canaanites remained alive, then clearly the command to destroy all who breathed was not to be taken literally, but hyperbolically
this not only a jewish thing (many athiest say iam pulling this out of no where ) a good example of another comteporary doing this is Rameses III defeating the sea people while its true he won a battle the text is says
His majesty is gone forth like a whirlwind against them, fighting on the battlefield like a runner. The dread of him and the terror of him have entered in their bodies; (they are) capsized and overwhelmed in their places. Their hearts are taken away; their soul is flown away. Their weapons are scattered in the sea. His arrow pierces him whom he has wished among them, while the fugitive becomes one fallen into the water. His majesty is like an enraged lion, attacking his assailant with his pawns; plundering on his right hand and powerful on his left hand, like Set[h] destroying the serpent ‘Evil of Character’. It is Amon-Re who has overthrown for him the lands and has crushed for him every land under his feet
just by readind this alone one thinks he inahlated them and left no one alive but no he captured prisoners and the victory was not as big and heck even tribes of the sea people (like caanites of joshua ) survived and went to inhabit caanan so yeah ancient authors are not modern authors they had diferent styles and diferrent ways to express their ideas to their auidience.
since there are some things that contradict the whole whiped out thing great example is Deuteronomy 7
And when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons.
now how is any of the isrealities going to intermarry with them if they are all dead?
this same applies with joshua
till, at the end of Joshua’s life it was clear that many Canaanites continued to live in the land, left to be driven out gradually by the next generation (Josh. 23:12-13, Judges 1:21, 27-28). According to Copan, if Joshua did all that was expected of him, yet multitudes of Canaanites remained alive, then clearly the command to destroy all who breathed was not to be taken literally, but hyperbolically
this not only a jewish thing (many athiest say iam pulling this out of no where ) a good example of another comteporary doing this is Rameses III defeating the sea people while its true he won a battle the text is says
His majesty is gone forth like a whirlwind against them, fighting on the battlefield like a runner. The dread of him and the terror of him have entered in their bodies; (they are) capsized and overwhelmed in their places. Their hearts are taken away; their soul is flown away. Their weapons are scattered in the sea. His arrow pierces him whom he has wished among them, while the fugitive becomes one fallen into the water. His majesty is like an enraged lion, attacking his assailant with his pawns; plundering on his right hand and powerful on his left hand, like Set[h] destroying the serpent ‘Evil of Character’. It is Amon-Re who has overthrown for him the lands and has crushed for him every land under his feet
just by readind this alone one thinks he inahlated them and left no one alive but no he captured prisoners and the victory was not as big and heck even tribes of the sea people (like caanites of joshua ) survived and went to inhabit caanan so yeah ancient authors are not modern authors they had diferent styles and diferrent ways to express their ideas to their auidience.
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Freddy
Guest
Scripture also tells us that trees talked amongst themselves. If you want to insist that everything in the bible happened exactly as written then feel free.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
I’m pretty sure Moses and Abraham weren’t mentally ill.
And everyone had an experience with the pilar of fire and of cloud.
Again, only a problem for the reader who judges God.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
What’s the context? It’s clear you’re assuming things here.
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Freddy
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Me? I’m assuming some stories in tbe bible are meant to make a point and didn’t happen exactly as written. For example, did someone transcribe literally every word Jesus said on the sermon on the mount verbatim? And then pass the transcription on to Matthew who kept it for nearly fifty years before writing it down?Freddy:
What’s the context? It’s clear you’re assuming things here.
If scripture cannot lie then that must have happened.
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MNathaniel
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The point is not to speculate about whether Moses and Abraham were mentally ill.
The point is to honestly face the question about how to evaluate the quandary faced by a mentally ill person today: If a mentally ill person, today, sincerely believes God has sent them "clear and recognizable signs" (your words) that they should kill a certain group of people, do you believe that mentally ill person is morally obligated to kill the people? Or morally obligated to refuse to kill the people?
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