George Zimmerman makes initial court appearance in Trayvon Martin shooting, will plead not guilty

[maryjk]

Then again, it’s just over a month since her son was killed.
More time will pass before the trial happens. Maybe her mind
will be a bit more settled then.

(She was witness to the audio of the beating tape.)

Everyone has been a witness to the tape.

I would be surprised that they would use her on the stand to say it was Martin’s voice. It would make much more sense to have a voice expert.

 

[catharina]

Everyone has been a witness to the tape.

I would be surprised that they would use her on the stand to say it was Martin’s voice. It would make much more sense to have a voice expert.

Or they can have both.
She has already said the screams were her son’s.
Her son’s, not your son’s or my son’s or a son’s of a voice expert.

My guess is that they will call both for the same reason:
purposes of identification.

PS - I have not listened to that tape.

 

[seekerz]

Huh? I’m lost. What does the gun have to do with her being called as a witness and being grilled by the defense about her remarks?

The gun would have been involved in the "accident’ - if that’s what it was.

 

[seekerz]

It makes me sad that she retracted her statement. I thought there was some hope for healing when she indicated she thought it was an accident. With the retraction, I wonder if that is possible now.

Why? Can’t healing occur regardless of whether or not Zimmerman is found guilty of murder? After a racial killing in Miss., the perpetrator (who pleaded guilty) and the victim’s family both talked remorse, forgiveness and prayer. I’d call that the beginning of healing and he’s an admitted murderer! Obviously, it did not become a national story - probably because the wheels of justice rolled smoothly and swiftly - but I’m sure at the personal level that was a very bitter pill to swallow…

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

It makes me sad that she retracted her statement. I thought there was some hope for healing when she indicated she thought it was an accident. With the retraction, I wonder if that is possible now.

In other words:

You have already made up your mind that the whole thing was an “accident” and not something else----like possibly 2nd degree murder.

Haven’t some folks here run themselves ragged (including you) insisting that we should just let the trial come, hear the evidence and “let the system take its course?”

Look----I admit I lean towards the TM side and think there was some funny business regarding BOTH parties----PARTICULARLY GZ----but I’m willing to let the “system take its course,” have an open mind, suspend my prejudices, particularly in regard to it being changed---------and to know the TRUTH, which it was ultimately (and ideally) what a trial should be about.

Are you willing to do that?

Or are you one of those that simply believes GZ and takes him at his word simply on the evidence of a hoodie on a black man and some ambigous bruising on GZ’s part?

You’re telling some of us to not rush to judgement? Then DO JUST THAT yourself.

Sorry if I seem harsh, but I’m tired of this seeming yapping about “convicting GZ and rushing to judgement” and not applying this to Martin’s side as well.

You don’t know if GZ attacked TM? Fine. We do not know if TM attacked GZ either. So please----some here need to stop with the babble-----making this as if that is a fact, when do not know if it IS.

Rant over.

 

[L_piperatus]

…why are you saying Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck? Is he not free to move about his neighborhood?

The interesting thing is, on Zimmerman’s recorded 911 call, he tells the police dispatcher that Martin is walking towards his truck, “he is coming to check me out”.

So, does Martin have a right to come to Zimmerman’s truck and check out Zimmerman? Does Zimmerman have a right to get out of his truck and start following Martin? I’m curious what the legal answer is to both of these questions.

 

[seekerz]

The interesting thing is, on Zimmerman’s recorded 911 call, he tells the police dispatcher that Martin is walking towards his truck, “he is coming to check me out”.

So, does Martin have a right to come to Zimmerman’s truck and check out Zimmerman? Does Zimmerman have a right to get out of his truck and start following Martin? I’m curious what the legal answer is to both of these questions.

I guess either had the right; but the wisdom of following a person you suspect might be a criminal, is at best - questionable.

 

[maryjk]

Or they can have both.
She has already said the screams were her son’s.
Her son’s, not your son’s or my son’s or a son’s of a voice expert.

My guess is that they will call both for the same reason:
purposes of identification.

PS - I have not listened to that tape.

I will have to try to find the article, but didn’t the father say that the screams weren’t Martin, at least when he first heard the tape? If so, that will be a problem. They call the mother to the stand, the defense calls the father.

A voice expert would be a different story.

 

[jen_fla]

Probably what Trayvon’s girl friend said happened.
“He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man,” Martin’s friend said. “I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run.”

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he’d managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

“Trayvon said, ‘What are you following me for,’ and the man said, ‘What are you doing here.’ Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn’t answer the phone.”
abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017
So that testimony would lead one to the conclusion that Zimmerman followed and confronted Trayvon. The charges then say a struggle ensued, they don’t say who started the struggle, and neither does the girl.

That is enough to show probable cause (but not absence of a shadow of doubt, we don’t know what the girl is with holding, if anything.)

It looks like, the prosecution’s case rests on what the girl said. And Trayvon’s mom’s identification of the scream (which should be easily dispensed with in court.) It really doesn’t look like much of a case to me at all. Maybe I’m missing something.

We do know now there was an autopsy. It would be interesting to find out what if anything is in it. Also the results of those who medically examined Zimmerman and if there was any of his blood at the scene and where.

We know there were other witnesses. What do they know?

There is a lot we don’t know.

to the part i bolded:

not that this has anything to do with whether george is guilty or not, but from day one when i heard him say trayvon looked like he was on drugs, i had wondered if he was using a bluetooth. trayvon could have been having a very animated conversation with his female friend and we’ve all seen people that first came across as crazy due to those devices.

anyway, maybe he’s guilty, maybe he isn’t, but i still see absolutely no evidence that george was a racist or was racially profiling trayvon.

 

[seekerz]

I will have to try to find the article, but didn’t the father say that the screams weren’t Martin, at least when he first heard the tape?

It’s the first time I’ve heard this.

 

[seekerz]

to the part i bolded:

not that this has anything to do with whether george is guilty or not, but from day one when i heard him say trayvon looked like he was on drugs, i had wondered if he was using a bluetooth. trayvon could have been having a very animated conversation with his female friend and we’ve all seen people that first came across as crazy due to those devices.

anyway, maybe he’s guilty, maybe he isn’t, but i still see absolutely no evidence that george was a racist or was racially profiling trayvon.

That’s a very good point you make. The first time I saw someone use one of those headsets, I did wonder about her sanity too - until I got close enough to see the phone.

 

[St_Francis]

I guess either had the right; but the wisdom of following a person you suspect might be a criminal, is at best - questionable.

I don’t know. When I lived in a city many years ago, I saw a couple of men putting a screaming, struggling 4-year-old girl into a car. This was when there was a lot of talk of child abuse, and so I was somewhat freaked out by what I saw.

I ran after the car to see where it went and luckily saw a police officer at the corner. I pointed out the car and off she went.

A few days later, the police officer saw me, and she told me the men were the child’s relatives, but that they were happy that someone was watching out for her.

So I don’t think it’s so strange that Zimmerman followed Martin for a way. You’re in a sort of Protect mode and not really thinking of yourself.

 

[catharina]

I will have to try to find the article, but didn’t the father say that the screams weren’t Martin, at least when he first heard the tape? If so, that will be a problem. They call the mother to the stand, the defense calls the father.

A voice expert would be a different story.

I can’t recall ever hearing what the father thought/said.
Meaning, I’ve seen to reference to it.
It will come down to voice experts anyway -
so far they say the voice is NOT that of Zimmerman.

 

[St_Francis]

It’s the first time I’ve heard this.

I read this also, but Martin’s father changed his mind quite soon after so it probably didn’t get reported that much.

 

[Cider]

I will have to try to find the article, but didn’t the father say that the screams weren’t Martin, at least when he first heard the tape? If so, that will be a problem. They call the mother to the stand, the defense calls the father.

A voice expert would be a different story.

What I saw in interviews was Zimmermans father said the screams were his son George. And Trayvon’s mother claims the screams are his.

Regardless, the bigger question to me is are the screams before or after the gun shots, because of course someone is likely to scream if they have been shot. It’s possible both screamed too, either before or after or both.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Why? Can’t healing occur regardless of whether or not Zimmerman is found guilty of murder? …

She said it was cold blooded murder, that her son was profiled, stalked and then murdered. That doesn’t seem to leave a lot of room for being open to other possiblities any more, i.e., that it may have in fact been an accidental shooting, a struggle that ended badly, whatever, not a deliberate murder.

I don’t know what happened. But, neither does mom. I feel awful for her and her family. They have suffered a tragic loss. But, maybe it wasn’t cold-blooded, deliberate murder. That will be determined during the trial, I suppose. Hopefully, justice will prevail, whatever that turns out to be.

…After a racial killing in Miss., the perpetrator (who pleaded guilty) and the victim’s family both talked remorse, forgiveness and prayer. I’d call that the beginning of healing and he’s an admitted murderer! Obviously, it did not become a national story - probably because the wheels of justice rolled smoothly and swiftly - but I’m sure at the personal level that was a very bitter pill to swallow…

I concede that I may be wrong in this case. I’d like to be wrong. I’d like for us to be able to heal and get past this. I guess I’m thinking about all the race baiting that has gone on from several sources, but if healing came about with the case that you mentioned, I suppose it is possible in this one too. I think that might be possible if evidence supports Zimmerman’s guilt and he is found guilty and sentenced.

But, what happens if Zimmerman is found not guilty and is released after mom and several others have said her son was profiled, stalked, shot down, murdered in cold blood? Do you think it is realistic to think folks will just accept that and move along after all this?

 

[seekerz]

I don’t know. When I lived in a city many years ago, I saw a couple of men putting a screaming, struggling 4-year-old girl into a car. This was when there was a lot of talk of child abuse, and so I was somewhat freaked out by what I saw.

I ran after the car to see where it went and luckily saw a police officer at the corner. I pointed out the car and off she went.

A few days later, the police officer saw me, and she told me the men were the child’s relatives, but that they were happy that someone was watching out for her.

So I don’t think it’s so strange that Zimmerman followed Martin for a way. You’re in a sort of Protect mode and not really thinking of yourself.

You followed someone who was putting a child in danger - that is a whole different kettle of fish. Trayvon was simply walking and talking on the phone; even if Zimmerman found his suspicious, it was foolhardy to follow him when the police were on the way.

 

[St_Francis]

Everyone has been a witness to the tape.

I would be surprised that they would use her on the stand to say it was Martin’s voice. It would make much more sense to have a voice expert.

I brought up that she could be called as a witness for that reason, but I was just trying illustrate how the cross examination would work so that the fact she called the incident an accident would not actually be part of any testimony she might give, not because I thought anyone would ask her to testify.

 

[seekerz]

She said it was cold blooded murder, that her son was profiled, stalked and then murdered. That doesn’t seem to leave a lot of room for seeking truth or understanding or being open to other possiblities, i.e., that it may have in fact been an accidental shooting, a struggle that ended badly, whatever, not a deliberate murder.

I don’t know what happened. But, neither does she. I feel awful for her and her family. They have suffered a tragic loss. But, maybe it wasn’t murder. That will be determined during the trial.

I concede that I may be wrong in this case. I’d like to be wrong. I’d like for us to be able to heal and get past this. I guess I’m thinking about all the race baiting that has gone on from several sources, but if healing came about with the case that you mentioned, I suppose it is possible in this one too. I hope so.

Healing is always possible. My personal impression is that the fringes of excessive passions have been used to distract us from the *necessary and productive discussion *of race-related issues such as profiling, which are pertinent and relevant even if it is found that these were not at play in this particular case.

 

[jen_fla]

In other words:

You have already made up your mind that the whole thing was an “accident” and not something else----like possibly 2nd degree murder.

Haven’t some folks here run themselves ragged (including you) insisting that we should just let the trial come, hear the evidence and “let the system take its course?”

Look----I admit I lean towards the TM side and think there was some funny business regarding BOTH parties----PARTICULARLY GZ----but I’m willing to let the “system take its course,” have an open mind, suspend my prejudices, particularly in regard to it being changed---------and to know the TRUTH, which it was ultimately (and ideally) what a trial should be about.

Are you willing to do that?

Or are you one of those that simply believes GZ and takes him at his word simply on the evidence of a hoodie on a black man and some ambigous bruising on GZ’s part?

You’re telling some of us to not rush to judgement? Then DO JUST THAT yourself.

Sorry if I seem harsh, but I’m tired of this seeming yapping about “convicting GZ and rushing to judgement” and not applying this to Martin’s side as well.

You don’t know if GZ attacked TM? Fine. We do not know if TM attacked GZ either. So please----some here need to stop with the babble-----making this as if that is a fact, when do not know if it IS.

Rant over.

please explain to me why you and some others keep bringing up the hoodie. or better yet, what is “evidence of a hoodie”?.. really what does that even mean?

george didn’t have anything to say about it other than to give the dispatcher a description. it makes as much sense for people to go on and on about sweat pants or jeans. people in the media tried to make an issue about the hoodie, not george.