George Zimmerman makes initial court appearance in Trayvon Martin shooting, will plead not guilty

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catharina said:
Everyone? No. Cops carry, soldiers carry.
Men/women who imagine they are “protecting”
their home turfs - and carry guns - it’s no stretch
fo me to imagine they are looking for trouble.
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Yes it is a stretch.
It is a very big stretch.
You cannot prove it.
 
vz71 said:
Then you are attempting to speak with authority upon that of which you have no knowledge or experience.
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My authority is based on my values:
I choose not to use weapons.

Re-considering that - I make the very same choice.
 
Calgar said:
Starship Troopers was a great book, wasn’t it? Wishful thinking on my part. 🙂
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Well, actually, instead of creepy ginormous bugs, it was armed guys on the other side actually trying to shoot me.
 
vz71 said:
Yes it is a stretch.
It is a very big stretch.
You cannot prove it.
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I have no need to prove it.
On the contrary.

If Zimmerman travelled without
a loaded gun, would he have
been much more careful about
the “suspicious” stranger?

Oh YEAH.

Simple logic can inform us.
It informs me.
 
mtbender said:
The answer may very well be “self defense.” Again with the facts we have we can only speculate.

A tragic as any death may be, it does not always equate to a crime.
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True. But we owe it to the child to find out what happened and if there is a reason to doubt the only full eyewitness (of which I would say there is), to settle the matter in a court of law.
 
catharina said:
Everyone? No. Cops carry, soldiers carry.
Men/women who imagine they are “protecting”
their home turfs - and carry guns - it’s no stretch
fo me to imagine they are looking for trouble.
Click to expand...
Imagine? Tell that to the people who are still alive because they were able to protect themselves.

Under that logic, anyone who carries legally – aside from your list – would be suspect of looking for trouble… Yet there are hundreds of posts on here about profiling hoodies… Ironic?

An awful broad brush is being used here with little substantiation.
 
One would think both sides would be satisfied. After all, this case is now going to trial.

In my opinion, I would still expect a civil suit. First, if he is granted immunity by reason of self-defense, I would expect the Florida law to be challenged in federal court, not because of the details of the shooting, but because of Mr. Zimmerman’s earlier statements and his following of Martin. Having read the law, this is simply not the circumstance for which the law was written, even though it may apply. It was written to exempt home-owners from lawsuits when they defend their home. Also, there is one section that is intended to protect victims of crimes in public when they defend themselves from muggers, rapists, etc. In order to apply this law, you would have to have a really narrow focus on just the last minute or so of this incident and ignore the precipitating factors.

I am no lawyer, but I play one on CAF. I guess we will see how this goes.
 
Calgar said:
Zimmerman’s MO was to call 911. There are many records of his calls to 911. Do you find it odd that he didn’t kill any of the other people you say he “hunted”?
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The argument that the prosecutor will use to counter that is an increased level of frustration, based on Zimmerman’s remarks about how “they” always get away and the profanity he used at this person he did not know anything about.
 
seekerz said:
True. But we owe it to the child to find out what happened and if there is a reason to doubt the only full eyewitness (of which I would say there is), to settle the matter in a court of law.
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But we need to be satistfied at the end of this, even if he is not found guilty. This is our system and we must be able to let go at the end.
 
Calgar said:
Zimmerman’s MO was to call 911. There are many records of his calls to 911. Do you find it odd that he didn’t kill any of the other people you say he “hunted”?
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Does anyone know what color the people he called 911 about were? Did he only call about black “suspicious” persons, or was it a reasonable mix of black/white/etc. “suspicious” persons?

I ask because the probable-cause affidavit recites that “Zimmerman confronted Martin” – which significantly contradicts Zimmerman’s story – “and a struggle ensued.”

It would be interesting if all of Zimmerman’s 911 calls were about blacks, or almost none of them were about blacks, or the mix of races he called about were similar to the community, or what have you, yes?
 
seekerz said:
True. But we owe it to the child to find out what happened and if there is a reason to doubt the only full eyewitness (of which I would say there is), to settle the matter in a court of law.
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Agreed, but I would also say that we owe it to the accused not to speculate on his guilt until the same occurs.

Not saying you in particular, just making a statement in general.
 
catharina said:
Everyone? No. Cops carry, soldiers carry.
Men/women who imagine they are “protecting”
their home turfs - and carry guns - it’s no stretch
fo me to imagine they are looking for trouble.
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You are incredibly unreasonable in making that claim.

Looking for trouble is a state of mind. Since you can’t read people’s minds, you can’t say that they are looking for trouble.

Simple logic.
 
I want to point out to that Zimmerman comes from a well connected family. If what he’s saying is true that Trevyon was on top of him, wouldn’t his shirt be filled with blood? Why didn’t the police interview the guy’s girlfriend she apparently wanted to be interviewed. Some talk is no autopsy was done on the body.

For me at the very least, in SYG, you shoot someone in public, you should be arrested, you can then present your evidence of being guilty, but this guy should have been arrested immediately.

As for think of the innocent people who are alive because they carried a gun. Think of the innocent people would be alive if people weren’t able to carry. There’s a case coming up where an older guy got in an argument with a young white guy about kids skate boarding. According to witnesses the guy showed the younger guy his gun. So the younger guy lunched at him. The younger guy was killed. Guess what, if the older guy didn’t have a gun, the younger guy’d still be alive today.

And according to his history most of the people Zimmerman would report on would be black. And once again, a kid talking on his cell phone in the rain… Is that really the most susicipious behavior ever…If the kid was dressed as a white preppy do you really think Zimmerman would have called it suspicious.
Our country has quite a huge crime rate, that other nations Canada, Europe don’t have. They have stricter gun laws.

And given Zimmerman’s own violent past (didn’t he have a misdemeanor that could have easily been a felony and perhaps would have been for a lesser folk) he’s not someone who should be allowed to carry.
 
mtbender said:
Imagine? Tell that to the people who are still alive because they were able to protect themselves.

Under that logic, anyone who carries legally – aside from your list – would be suspect of looking for trouble… Yet there are hundreds of posts on here about profiling hoodies… Ironic?

An awful broad brush is being used here with little substantiation.
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I’m offering my opinion.
It’s as valid as yours - maybe more so.
 
pnewton said:
But we need to be satistfied at the end of this, even if he is not found guilty. This is our system and we must be able to let go at the end.
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Oh, I have no problem accepting a not guilty verdict, though I don’t see why people are making it a big issue. Last year there were angry crowds protesting a verdict outside the Orange County courthouse to the point where jurors felt threatened; to this day the defendant is forced to hide.

I didn’t see as much concern before or after that trial and the media lynch mob mentality seemed to have free reign then; very few sober voices dared speak up. Not sure how much it was discussed on here. Now everyone seems alarmed, like no previous case has had passionate people up in arms. Why is that, do you think?
 
bekalc said:
I want to point out to that Zimmerman comes from a well connected family. If what he’s saying is true that Trevyon was on top of him, wouldn’t his shirt be filled with blood?
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Not from a gunshot unless Zimmerman let the body just lay on him for a prolonged period of time, which is highly unlikely.
Why didn’t the police interview the guy’s girlfriend she apparently wanted to be interviewed.
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They did, read the charging instrument
Some talk is no autopsy was done on the body.
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It was done, read the charging instrument
 
bekalc said:
For me at the very least, in SYG, you shoot someone in public, you should be arrested, you can then present your evidence of being guilty, but this guy should have been arrested immediately.
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If he was not taken into custody (arrested) immedietely, then what was he doing in handcuffs at the police station?
 
Godfollower said:
Does anyone know what color the people he called 911 about were? Did he only call about black “suspicious” persons, or was it a reasonable mix of black/white/etc. “suspicious” persons?

I ask because the probable-cause affidavit recites that “Zimmerman confronted Martin” – which significantly contradicts Zimmerman’s story – “and a struggle ensued.”

It would be interesting if all of Zimmerman’s 911 calls were about blacks, or almost none of them were about blacks, or the mix of races he called about were similar to the community, or what have you, yes?
Click to expand...
There was a link a while back, to other 911 calls (on YouTube); don’t have it now, but I’d found it by searching.
 
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