George Zimmerman makes initial court appearance in Trayvon Martin shooting, will plead not guilty

[catharina]

I am solidly behind the Second Amendment and support the right to bear arms. Citizens most definitely have the right to arm themselves if they so choose to protect themselves against actions of the not so law-abiding and downright evil among us. The idea of just bad guys and the police having guns is a scary one to me.

With that being said, I do wonder if Zimmerman would have gotten out of his truck if he hadn’t had a weapon. I wonder if carrying changed the way he perceived a possible threat and thus his reaction to the situation?

I’ve said it before, but I’ll repeat it here. If he hadn’t had his weapon with him during the confrontation with Martin, perhaps Zimmerman would be the deceased instead of Martin. But, if Zimmerman had just stayed in his truck to begin with, just observing and reporting, both men would be alive now, right? Did having the gun with him help him decide that exiting the truck was a manageable risk, that he could meet any threat and stay safe if he got out of the vehicle? I have the benefit of hindsight being 20/20 and I would think Zimmerman would have chosen differently if he could have foreseen the outcome, but I do wonder if he had left his gun locked up at home that night, would he have acted the same, gotten out of his truck to investigate anyway, or would he have just made the 911 call and watched from his vehicle instead? Maybe he still would have gotten out of his truck.

I can’t answer my questions. Maybe Zimmerman couldn’t really either if I were to ask him. And, I’m not asking these questions to portray Zimmerman as bad or weak or anything like that. I guess I’m just sadly reflecting on and questioning the why and how of a terrible outcome.

My questions exactly.
Plus it’s no stretch for me to imagine
that Z felt a bit invincible with a loaded gun in hand.

 

[maryjk]

My questions exactly.
Plus it’s no stretch for me to imaginethat Z felt a bit invincible with a loaded gun in hand.

Which is very interesting.

When I am carrying, I am less likely to put myself into that type of position. I am VERY aware that I have a deadly weapon.

Maybe it is the difference between someone that carries vs. someone that doesn’t.

 

[Calgar]

Plus it’s no stretch for me to imagine
that Z felt a bit invincible with a loaded gun in hand.

Well, I can’t disagree with how you would feel.

But, I can say that carrying a loaded weapon makes you MORE aware of the HUGE responsibility you have taken on. It does not make me feel invicible. And it does not make me a bad guy.

Carrying a gun does not turn someone into dirty harry.

 

[Calgar]

Which is very interesting.

When I am carrying, I am less likely to put myself into that type of position. I am VERY aware that I have a deadly weapon.

Maybe it is the difference between someone that carries vs. someone that doesn’t.

Oh, there we go. What he said.

 

[Calgar]

Good to see bloodthirsty mobs can still enact judicial motions.

Nobody can know how the trial will turn out, but if it’s not guilty I might fill the tub with water.

 

[catharina]

Which is very interesting.

When I am carrying, I am less likely to put myself into that type of position. I am VERY aware that I have a deadly weapon.

Maybe it is the difference between someone that carries vs. someone that doesn’t.

Very interesting, mary, and instructive.
I’m inclined to think George Z did NOT use your version of good sense.

 

[mtbender]

My questions exactly.
Plus it’s no stretch for me to imagine
that Z felt a bit invincible with a loaded gun in hand.

Of course none of this matters if Martin initiated the physical altercation and Zimmerman did in fact react in fear for his life while being beat by Martin.

All Zimmerman’s legal actions leading up to the altercation are just as irrelevant as Marin buying Skittles.

As it has been said before, Zimmerman did not commit a crime by carrying a weapon or by pursuing Martin. Bad judgment is not a crime or culpability.

 

[catharina]

Of course none of this matters if Martin initiated the physical altercation and Zimmerman did in fact react in fear for his life while being beat by Martin.

All Zimmerman’s legal actions leading up to the altercation are just as irrelevant as Marin buying Skittles.

As it has been said before, Zimmerman did not commit a crime by carrying a weapon or by pursuing Martin. Bad judgment is not a crime or culpability.

Bad judgment can result in crimes and culpability.
There’s a reason why law enforcement tells watch-folks:
observe, do not follow. George has learned that - maybe.

 

[seekerz]

I think people who focus conversations around race and racial identity are small minded and typically not worth my mental energy. But that’s just me.

Typically, if it doesn’t intrude on your daily life, you have the luxury of expending your mental energy on more fruitful pursuits. Happy you.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Which is very interesting.

When I am carrying, I am less likely to put myself into that type of position. I am VERY aware that I have a deadly weapon.

Maybe it is the difference between someone that carries vs. someone that doesn’t.

Thank you for that. In listening to the 911 tape, I didn’t get any impression that Zimmerman was macho or anything like that. He seemed calm and matter-of-fact, maybe even soft-spoken and gentle.

When you carry, do you feel safer, more confident or just very aware that you have a huge responsibility in carrying a weapon?

 

[pnewton]

Of course none of this matters if Martin initiated the physical altercation and Zimmerman did in fact react in fear for his life while being beat by Martin.

Martin may or may not have initiated the physical altercation, but he did not initiate the confrontation.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Well, I can’t disagree with how you would feel.

But, I can say that carrying a loaded weapon makes you MORE aware of the HUGE responsibility you have taken on. It does not make me feel invicible. And it does not make me a bad guy.

Carrying a gun does not turn someone into dirty harry.

Okay, thank you. And, I didn’t mean to imply carrying made anyone a bad guy. I was just wondering if not carrying that night may have changed Zimmerman’s actions. Realistically, I know there is no way to know the answer.

 

[St_Francis]

Here you go, just for you. I searched my own posts.

yesterday, Post 160
 
I have to admit that I'm almost stunned to see certain words
in a legal document regarding the Zimmerman-Martin case.
 
[cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/Zi...in;contentBody](http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/Zi...in;contentBody)
 
It states that Zimmerman profiled Martin.
It states that Zimmerman confronted Martin.
It states that Zimmerman while talking about Martin stated "these a------s, they 
always get away" and also "these f------ punks.
 
It states that Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher
and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home.
 
Although many posters have mentioned such details, 
it is almost shocking to see the details lined up in an affidavit.
 
Even more than the spelled-out vulgarities 
is the use of the term "profiled" adding that "Martin
was unarmed and not commiting a crime." In print too 
is the fact that "Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher."
 
Quite a staggering affidavit, IMO. 
 
 
~~~~~~~~~~
 
You're welcome.

This is simply a statement by the prosecutor regarding why they are asking that they be allowed to try Zimmerman. The use of the word profiled, for example, is ambiguous and related in the public mind with something bad–racial profiling. And we do not know that Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher’s telling him that he “did not need to” follow Martin.

Most affidavits of this type are more detailed, like this one. The one drawn up for Zimmerman is just a mass of conclusions, with no detail of the evidence they used to arrive at those conclusions.

PS: I saw the copy of the affidavit you linked and saw where they said Zimmerman thought Martin was a criminal. I’m sorry I missed that before.

 

[seekerz]

Nobody can know how the trial will turn out, but if it’s not guilty I might fill the tub with water.

It seemed like the sky was falling last year when Casey Anthony and the jurors who acquitted her were being hounded by some very angry people. It didn’t fall then, and the world didn’t end, so I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.

:shrug:This isn’t the first case surrounded by great passion - the only difference from the Anthony case is that it seemed like the condemnation was almost uniform. Very few people spent time online supporting her AND there as no conclusive evidence that she even caused her child’s death.

 

[seekerz]

But his whole Trevyon just punched me for no reason, doesn’t add up. At All.

I agree. It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[seekerz]

Good to see bloodthirsty mobs can still enact judicial motions.

Are you on the correct thread? Which bloodthirsty mobs? Where?

 

[pnewton]

I am solidly behind the Second Amendment and support the right to bear arms. Citizens most definitely have the right to arm themselves if they so choose to protect themselves against actions of the not so law-abiding and downright evil among us. The idea of just bad guys and the police having guns is a scary one to me.

With that being said, I do wonder if Zimmerman would have gotten out of his truck if he hadn’t had a weapon. I wonder if carrying changed the way he perceived a possible threat and thus his reaction to the situation?

I have just the opposite perspective. I can’t imagine getting out of the car* with* a gun. That’s what the bad guys do. I have gone back and forth on this ovet the years and have arrived at the personal decision not to carry a gun to prevent the very type of thing that happened here. When I carried a gun, I never felt comfortable being out with it and would avoid as much public contact as I could. Without a gun, I am much more comfortable dealing with problematic people, even in confrontational situations.

There is a good reason why neighborhood watch should never try and approach a suspect. This goes a million times more for an armed neighborhood watch person.

 

[seekerz]

i admit it’s normal to show more pictures of someone who has died than of someone living. you got me there, but since we don’t know exactly what happened and another person’s life could be placed in prison, it simply isn’t responsible for news programming to show such bias while reporting the case… bias in either direction i might add.

the news is there to report what info they had and that was that a 17 yr old male, was shot and killed by someone who lived in the neighborhood. news programming is supposed to report on the facts, placing a picture of a 12 yr as they report that he was killed, can lead the public to believe that a 12 yr old was shot.

or do you think the media should be allowed to paint whatever they want. would it be ok if there was a picture of trayvon dressed up as a gangbanger for halloween and the media used that over and over?

all i’m saying is that rational people know that a fight between a taller 17 year old and a 28 year old is usually more equal than a fight between a 12 yr old boy and a 28 yr old man.

When that man has a gun, either child is outmatched.

 

[mtbender]

Martin may or may not have initiated the physical altercation, but he did not initiate the confrontation.

Confrontations are not illegal… reasonability lies with who started the altercation.

 

[seekerz]

Confrontations are not illegal….

Your are right, but senselessness should be…and this whole incident was just that: senseless.