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Midwest88
Guest
When you give them one thing, they want another and another. I’m surprised that this man of God cannot see the error in his thinking. “Equality” in modern context is completely laughable.
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CutlerB
Guest
I believe Marx has said some awkward things recently, but I may be wrong.
Meisner: He’s been advocating the morning-after pill, though with a rather peculiar formulation that is misunderstood by the media. His advisors didn’t tell him about all of the facts in that regard.
Well, the Archbishop said that it is important to him these topics remain “on the table”, which can be interpreted as an agreement on his part.
Indeed, he doesn’t mean Holy Orders. The problem is it is being misrepresented that way, and many large groups are actually demanding the sacrament of ordination for women.
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Tigg
Guest
You may call it wackiness…I call it something else altogether. There appears to be a movement from within the Church which we have been warned about numerous times from holy and credible people, and as another another poster mentioned, even Our Lady herself. (1884, Pope Leo “the smoke of Satan has entered the Church.”) Why are we surprised during these dangerous times when secular humanism and atheism continue to spread at an alarming rate.
I believe it naive to think these stories (dozens of them) can all be attributed to a spin of the media. We must not be so worldly as to discount the warning, or stop listening to the prophetic voice of the Spirit. We can do nothing but pray for our bishops and all prelates in this time of heresy and apostasy. Stay close to the Deposit of Faith (we know what the faith teaches and we need to pray to be consecrated in Truth.)
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kelvinf
Guest
Happening lately? Female priests, married priests, communion for divorced and remarried Catholics and all the other ‘zeitgeist ideologies’ are all things heretics have been demanding for decades.
There are many loud liberal Catholics pushing for these things. But the good news is that, all these ‘reforms’ would require the signature of the Vatican and that’s not going to happen.
The head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, German archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Müller, recently commented on all these demands and reiterated that they are not going to happen. He said that all these discussions happening in the dioceses are okay, but that they should focus on the important subjects like attending mass, the eucharist, confession, marriage etc and not on secondary issues that are being discussed over and over again.
The kind of Church these folks are demanding already exists and it is called the Evangelical Church.
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CutlerB
Guest
Can you provide a link to the comments by Archbishop Müller? I’d like to read them. I like him!
Da Du ja in Deutschland lebst… Die Protestanten haben das ja alles, und denen geht es noch schlechter als der Katholischen Kirche, zumindest was Zahlen angeht.
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kelvinf
Guest
He said that in a recent interview he had with Die Welt: welt.de/politik/deutschland/article113313904/Gezielte-Diskreditierung-der-katholische-Kirche.htmlCan you provide a link to the comments by Archbishop Müller? I’d like to read them. I like him!
Eben!
Regarding your question whether it happens in other countries, I just came across a thread at the World News section with the title: Kentucky woman ordained as priest in defiance of Roman Catholic Church and a claim on the thread that “70% of U.S. Catholics believe that women should be allowed to be priests”. So it’s certainly not a German problem.
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CutlerB
Guest
Ah, I recall that article. I understand very well what he means, and the media was not happy about the wording… or more likely the entire interview, picking the wording to turn the tables on him.
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YoungTradCath
Guest
I think the difference is that we haven’t been seeing much of this from those in the hierarchy (ie bishops) in the last few years, but we are seeing a burst of it lately.
I’m not sure we’re dealing with “deaconesses” here, more like “female deacons.”
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YoungTradCath
Guest
okay EDIT: nevermind, even PrayTell is saying this is “deaconesses” rather than “female deacons.”
/rant
However, I still think this looks bad.
/rant
However, I still think this looks bad.
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CutlerB
Guest
I hope Rome is getting the trucks full of bricks ready to drop on this.
By the way, YoungTradCath, I like the way you named your Location!
By the way, YoungTradCath, I like the way you named your Location!
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Lucky7
Guest
Agreed. I have to wonder if this has been simmering for awhile…they’re just getting more vocal.
That is certainly how I’m seeing it YoungTradCath. And I have to wonder why it’s allowed to continue.
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YoungTradCath
Guest
Well, I don’t think there’s much anyone can do about it.
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Lucky7
Guest
What about the Pope? I know we can’t make him do anything for various reasons, but doesn’t he know that this is happening? I keep hoping he’ll at least make a general statement, or recite a homily regarding known, unorthodox positions of certain members of the hierarchy and make a call to reform.
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surritter
Guest
Wait, though. If that did happen back then, you can be sure that the good pope cautioned people NOT to fall into sin again – that is, that they had to refrain from sexual relations if they remained under the same roof as their remarried partners.
No confessor would counsel someone to repent, do penance, and then go right back to the aberrant situation as if all were okey-dokey.
Perhaps what you heard is the penance performed for the sin of divorce (which is not necessarily a sin, but it can be). But if a divorced-and-remarried person continues to sin if he/she continues to engage in relations with the new partner. I’m certain that Pope St. Gregory was observant of that constant Church teaching.
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Tigg
Guest
We all see what’s happening now. There is so much vocal opposition to the Church those who hope to make the rift larger continually cling to any little possibility that She might just change Her ways after all.
It may not say the AB supoorts these reforms, but where is the condemnation of matters clearly opposed to Church teaching? The bolded above simply cannot happen for those wishing to remain within the good grace of the Catholic Church. Is there not a certain amount of credence given even by tacitly listening to such things and acknowledging a Diocesan Assembly of the laity? (I don’t know German and assume this was all laity.)
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CutlerB
Guest
Yes, it was all laity. About 200 or 300 (the exact number escapes me) of them.
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larsont7
Guest
It’s good to see so many on here coming out against this Archbishop’s agenda, as it seeks to undermine the Catholic Church’s doctrines to fit with modern society standards. What I find disturbing, though, is that any criticism of the Cardinals in our own country who have done things seen as morally questionable cannot be discussed, as the threads are soon deleted and members are given infraction points and/or banned.
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Lucky7
Guest
I think the key is to remain respectful…and I think we have all done a good job of that in this thread. Sometimes things devolve.
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kelvinf
Guest
I think these dialogues that some bishops are having with the laity are not helping at all. And the ring leader is the central committee of catholics, a ‘liberal’ lay group that is funded by Catholic taxpayers via the Church tax/the bishops but doesn’t represent/speak for all Catholics in Germany. They meet from time to time with the bishops and keep pushing for these reforms. So they might somewhat be succeeding to influence some bishops as they keep on bringing up these same issues all the time.
But the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is aware of all this and his stance is unequivocal.
So far, it’s all just rhetoric. The moment any bishop starts going against Church teaching, I am sure the Vatican will react.
I did say I was impressed by the reaction from most Catholics on Fb.
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CutlerB
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Indeed, the ZdK is very liberal. I gather they promote all sorts of peculiar viewpoints. I fully agree that this much-praised and demanded “dialogue” is not helping to preserve Truth at all, but only blurring it.
When I heard that Archbishop Müller had been put in charge of the CDF, I rejoiced, for he was called “conservative”. In media speak on Church matters, that word makes me think “conservative = good”.
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