German Pagan Runes and Items needed some advice

[Ironcross13]

Hello i am new here. I am 26.
I joined to mainly ask this question. I have listened to the radio shows on and off for a good few years. I don’t go to church really at all. I pray every night for the past 2.5 years.
My family are all Catholics and i was brought up one.

I collect items from WW2 and study WW2 history alot its a hobby of mine.
My mother hates this and thinks I can draw bad spirits in with these items. I been doing this for about 5 years now and last year im getting more into it.

I also wanted to light a Julleuchter for the dead Germans that seem to be forgotten as i visited the graves of some in “Recogne Belgium” and felt quite bad for all the 18-26 year olds i seen there. I have a period German family book that says to light it on special occasions Winter Solstice and birthdays ect and the end of the year.

It has Pagan runes on it i can post a picture of it also if people dont know what one is.
Has a hart on it and wheel on it.

I dont plan to practice paganism i just wanted to do this for the dead and forgotten soldiers.

Also at the graves i came back the next day said some prays and light some tea light candles in the sign of the cross and light a big candle. let 3 little flowers in pots at some graves of people that died on Christmas day. As I visited on the 11,dec -21st when the battle of the bulge was going.
I cant post any pics as im on a trial.

all the best

 

[Petaro]

I see little point in setting out pagan symbols for the dead of any nation. As you are a Catholic look into your own culture and find more valuable ways to pray for the dead… say, a Mass or simple prayers. Indeed, I agree with you that the German soldier is probably in the greatest need for our prayers giving their lives for the greatest evil of that Century.

 

[Todd977]

Here’s my take on the matter. Lighting a candle as a prayer for dead German soldiers in a candle holder made in Germany would be a great idea, except that the candle holder in question was part of the culture of the SS, a criminal organization responsible for numerous crimes against humanity. The candle holder was apparently manufactured in a factory using forced labor and was given out as a reward for exceptional service to members of the SS. Using the candle holder publicly would likely cause scandal to anyone who knows about its association with the SS. Not knowing your good intentions, they would likely misunderstand it as a show of support for the crimes of the SS.

The rune in question seems simply to be the letter of an old Germanic alphabet that corresponds with our modern letter H. Aside from its use on the SS candle holder, it seems pretty harmless. In a different context it is a Christian symbol, the IX monogram, formed from the initial letters of the name Jesus Christ in Greek. Anyone familiar with early Christian symbols seeing the IX monogram and the heart on the candle holder might easily mistake it for a Christian candle holder.

As long as your intention is not to support the SS culture and its crimes, private use of the candle holder shouldn’t be a problem. However, public use of the SS candle holder is likely to cause scandal and should be avoided.

 

[Isca]

I’d donate those candle-holders to a military museum and stop dabbling with things which are associated with a genocidal maniac.

It’s good to pray for the souls of the dead, but we can do that without using artefacts which have an ominous association.

 

[Tablefor9]

I’d donate those candle-holders to a military museum and stop dabbling with things which are associated with a genocidal maniac.

It’s good to pray for the souls of the dead, but we can do that without using artefacts which have an ominous association.

^^^This. These were used to celebrate/decorate SS soldiers and meant to be used in a shrine in the soldier’s home (particularly in Julfest, a pagan creation to replace Christmas).

The candle rite you describe doing is a recreation of the Yule rite associated with the SS “replacement religion”. You say you don’t want to practice paganism, but you have recreated a pagan rite.

My advice to you is to donate these items, seek priestly counsel, and gain indulgences during this Holy Year of Mercy for these poor souls. Also–get yourself to Mass.

 

[Ironcross13]

I see little point in setting out pagan symbols for the dead of any nation. As you are a Catholic look into your own culture and find more valuable ways to pray for the dead… say, a Mass or simple prayers. Indeed, I agree with you that the German soldier is probably in the greatest need for our prayers giving their lives for the greatest evil of that Century.

I just have been a collecting German and SS items for quite a while its a hobby. Many people enjoy this hobby who are interested in the history there are some good forums out there with lots of experts in the field old and young none of them are bad.
Many seem to hate the Nazis also i do wonder why some would collect if they hate them so Much. Also the main SS had front-line troops fighting on the main battles.
I only collect wartime items uniforms caps ect. Would you say not starlin was also more Evil in that century? I dont view all SS as evil if you look at the 12th SS HJ they was only 17-19 year olds fighting to defend there country. I feel we cant condemn all these solders for the actions of a few.
Its God who will judge them and im sure he did see there was bad on all sides of the war. the allies also committed many war crimes
I know its going to be hard for people to understand why i and lots of other collect i have met many friends through the hobby.

 

[Ironcross13]

Here’s my take on the matter. Lighting a candle as a prayer for dead German soldiers in a candle holder made in Germany would be a great idea, except that the candle holder in question was part of the culture of the SS, a criminal organization responsible for numerous crimes against humanity. The candle holder was apparently manufactured in a factory using forced labor and was given out as a reward for exceptional service to members of the SS. Using the candle holder publicly would likely cause scandal to anyone who knows about its association with the SS. Not knowing your good intentions, they would likely misunderstand it as a show of support for the crimes of the SS.

The rune in question seems simply to be the letter of an old Germanic alphabet that corresponds with our modern letter H. Aside from its use on the SS candle holder, it seems pretty harmless. In a different context it is a Christian symbol, the IX monogram, formed from the initial letters of the name Jesus Christ in Greek. Anyone familiar with early Christian symbols seeing the IX monogram and the heart on the candle holder might easily mistake it for a Christian candle holder.

As long as your intention is not to support the SS culture and its crimes, private use of the candle holder shouldn’t be a problem. However, public use of the SS candle holder is likely to cause scandal and should be avoided.

Thanks this is a very detailed response you seem to have knowledge of the items and runes. It dose look to be very like the the eraly Jesus sign.
I do not support the crimes of the SS or the crimes committed by he allies.
I only collect stuff from front-line troops nothing to do with the prewar SS or any camps.
There was many SS divisions fighting. I also study history of the war alot and have my own opinions of the war.
I do have many War time SS items and war time photos. I just planed to light it for the dead soldiers mainly the young ones as i feel a connection as that could of been me in there shoes if i was born at a different time fighting for there life.
If you had been to the grave yard i had been to it is a very moving and sad. so many died around and on 25.12.1944.

I was just worried about drawing demons into my home if a spirit did come around that would mean it needs prays and i could do that.
It would be a private thing.

 

[Ironcross13]

I’d donate those candle-holders to a military museum and stop dabbling with things which are associated with a genocidal maniac.

It’s good to pray for the souls of the dead, but we can do that without using artefacts which have an ominous association.

^^^This. These were used to celebrate/decorate SS soldiers and meant to be used in a shrine in the soldier’s home (particularly in Julfest, a pagan creation to replace Christmas).

The candle rite you describe doing is a recreation of the Yule rite associated with the SS “replacement religion”. You say you don’t want to practice paganism, but you have recreated a pagan rite.

My advice to you is to donate these items, seek priestly counsel, and gain indulgences during this Holy Year of Mercy for these poor souls. Also–get yourself to Mass.

To donate these items would be a bad move as most museums would just sell them as they are worth alot they are classed as antiques and for a example a Julleuchter can cost from $1000-$2500 depending on type for a original. Other items can cost alot more for camo tunics ect.

Do you guys think it would be wrong to light it for Julfest or The Winter Solstice?
Not to replace anything to do with Jesus as i would never turn away from being a catholic as ive been born one and my family are very religious my mother is a alter sever in the local church very religious.

I do also need to go to mass but i do find it boring i think that is the reason don’t go.
I don’t seem to enjoy it.
also i do pray at night is this just pathetic in gods eyes?

 

[Tablefor9]

Do you guys think it would be wrong to light it for Julfest or The Winter Solstice?
Not to replace anything to do with Jesus as i would never turn away from being a catholic as ive been born one and my family are very religious my mother is a alter sever in the local church very religious.

I think the danger here is syncretism, the mixing of pagan religion with Catholicism.

I do also need to go to mass but i do find it boring i think that is the reason don’t go.
I don’t seem to enjoy it.
also i do pray at night is this just pathetic in gods eyes?

Prayer is never pathetic in God’s eyes. Aside from that, one must remember that the Mass is as much about God as it is about our personal taste. It is our prescribed worship that God desires from us. There may be a Mass more to your liking available or not, that doesn’t abrogate your obligation to offer God’s that which is God’s (your worship).

About whether you could entertain the demonic with these items–most of what one reads online about this is suspect at best. Better to speak to your priest, or perhaps someone who isn’t struggling with influenza can give us both a cogent answer.

 

[Spritus1]

Hello ironcross13

My advice is to forget about winter solstice, runes and all that nonsense. Otherwise you are heading for trouble. The Nazi regime was satanic. You should stay well clear of any association with Nazism.

If you must pray for the souls you desire to pray for just light a catholic candle such as one with a Saint’s picture on it and leave it at that. Pray for the souls in purgatory, adding as your special intention for those who died in war. Whether you realise it or not, if you light a candle with a pagan/ demonic symbol on it then you are asking for trouble. You may as well put a big “demons this way” sign on your forehead. Do not do it.

Satan is extremely clever, cunning and subtle and may well use your legitimate interest in WWII to distract you from Christ and divert you onto a dangerous path. Do not let him deceive you.

Also, you need to go to Mass. You say you find Mass boring. I suspect then that you don’t really understand what the Mass is, why it is so important and why you need to go. If you find Mass boring then you are not praying it as you ought. Like anything in life, you will get out of it what you put in to it. Perhaps read what St Alphonsus Liguori wrote on the Mass. Given the times we are now in it is YOUR responsibility to get right with God. Go to confession, ditch all the Nazi rubbish and focus on Jesus and your salvation.

 

[Tablefor9]

Hello ironcross13

My advice is to forget about winter solstice, runes and all that nonsense. Otherwise you are heading for trouble. The Nazi regime was satanic. You should stay well clear of any association with Nazism.

If you must pray for the souls you desire to pray for just light a catholic candle such as one with a Saint’s picture on it and leave it at that. Pray for the souls in purgatory, adding as your special intention for those who died in war. Whether you realise it or not, if you light a candle with a pagan/ demonic symbol on it then you are asking for trouble. You may as well put a big “demons this way” sign on your forehead. Do not do it.

Satan is extremely clever, cunning and subtle and may well use your legitimate interest in WWII to distract you from Christ and divert you onto a dangerous path. Do not let him deceive you.

Also, you need to go to Mass. You say you find Mass boring. I suspect then that you don’t really understand what the Mass is, why it is so important and why you need to go. If you find Mass boring then you are not praying it as you ought. Like anything in life, you will get out of it what you put in to it. Perhaps read what St Alphonsus Liguori wrote on the Mass. Given the times we are now in it is YOUR responsibility to get right with God. Go to confession, ditch all the Nazi rubbish and focus on Jesus and your salvation.

 

[Isca]

Just a little point of clarification for our OP - the SS were not regular soldiers who were conscripted into the German army, like many of the poor lads who died. The Waffen-SS did fight, but to join the SS you had to subscribe to its ideology, which was mainly about exterminating those seen as “sub-human”. In the concentration camps which the SS ran with such enthusiasm, that encompassed a lot of people - Jews and other religious people (including Catholics), travellers, gay people, anyone with a physical or learning disability, the mentally-ill - the list went on and on.

I can assure you that it’s nothing to ‘get into’. Even your username suggests you are identifying a bit too much with the German military. Please be careful and have another think about this.

 

[Nigel7]

OP, be very careful with that fascination with all things Germany WWII. It also sounds like you are really stretching to justify people’s memberships to organizations such as the Waffen SS, which were purely diabolical in their formation and existence. The SS were pure evil.

OP, I too had a fascination in my 20’s with all things German military WWII, collecting medals, etc…
Be very careful. And your mother is right about those items carrying with them the histories of what they are and what they stand for. Bringing that stuff into your life and home you are inviting also everything that comes with them, their history and their deeds.

Pray for the dead according to your Catholic Christian faith (certainly not using your collectible pagan artifacts). And for goodness sake do not make excuses for these people to justify them in any way, lest you find yourself complicit in their crimes.

God bless

 

[edwest2]

There is nothing wrong with collecting historical items from the World War II period. I am familiar with the Runic alphabet. In Bitburg, President Ronald Reagan visited a cemetery with some Waffen-SS graves. There are various customs and rituals that are meant to remember the dead in various countries. I would consult a priest about this.

As a researcher of the period, some readers would be surprised to know how many non-Germans volunteered for service in the Wehrmacht, or Armed Forces, including in the Waffen SS. I have seen recruiting posters in various languages. In fact, one of four soldiers fighting in the German Army on the Eastern Front were not native Germans.

Ed

 

[edwest2]

OP, be very careful with that fascination with all things Germany WWII. It also sounds like you are really stretching to justify people’s memberships to organizations such as the Waffen SS, which were purely diabolical in their formation and existence. The SS were pure evil.

OP, I too had a fascination in my 20’s with all things German military WWII, collecting medals, etc…
Be very careful. And your mother is right about those items carrying with them the histories of what they are and what they stand for. Bringing that stuff into your life and home you are inviting also everything that comes with them, their history and their deeds.

Pray for the dead according to your Catholic Christian faith (certainly not using your collectible pagan artifacts). And for goodness sake do not make excuses for these people to justify them in any way, lest you find yourself complicit in their crimes.

God bless

Your reaction is quite understandale but inaccurate. My father fought the Germans during World War II but rarely spoke about it. He mentioned the SS once. After his capture, and due the fact that his country no longer it existed, it was now part of the Greater Reich, he spent the war in a forced labor camp in Germany.

Quite a few scholarly books have been written about the SS. Understanding them, and their origin, is history, as terrible as it was. “complicit in their crimes” is a very great stretch of the imagination. I recall being told that once Germany was defeated, and German Marks became worthless, they were used as toilet paper. I know this from someone who was there.

I don’t see the OP making any excuses. He deserves an honest answer.

Ed

 

[edwest2]

Thanks this is a very detailed response you seem to have knowledge of the items and runes. It dose look to be very like the the eraly Jesus sign.
I do not support the crimes of the SS or the crimes committed by he allies.
I only collect stuff from front-line troops nothing to do with the prewar SS or any camps.
There was many SS divisions fighting. I also study history of the war alot and have my own opinions of the war.
I do have many War time SS items and war time photos. I just planed to light it for the dead soldiers mainly the young ones as i feel a connection as that could of been me in there shoes if i was born at a different time fighting for there life.
If you had been to the grave yard i had been to it is a very moving and sad. so many died around and on 25.12.1944.

I was just worried about drawing demons into my home if a spirit did come around that would mean it needs prays and i could do that.
It would be a private thing.

Ask a priest.

Ed

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

… your username suggests you are identifying a bit too much with the German military. …

Or, perhaps more clearly, and in line with what others have said, you are not making a distinction between straightforward fighting for one’s country on the one hand, and associating oneself with the cult and ideology of oppression and creeping to the oppressor on the other.

The way the Nazis tricked SS members into doing more than straightforward fighting for their country was by pretending they were doing no more than fighting for their country (with threats if they didn’t join in incidentally).

It’s because of them that my mother had her little brother (the uncle I didn’t know I had) taken from her. Not because of a common or garden war.

 

[edwest2]

Or, perhaps more clearly, and in line with what others have said, you are not making a distinction between straightforward fighting for one’s country on the one hand, and associating oneself with the cult and ideology of oppression and creeping to the oppressor on the other.

The way the Nazis tricked SS members into doing more than straightforward fighting for their country was by pretending they were doing no more than fighting for their country (with threats if they didn’t join in incidentally).

It’s because of them that my mother had her little brother (the uncle I didn’t know I had) taken from her. Not because of a common or garden war.

Russian troops knew they had other military personnel within their ranks that went by a slang term I won’t repeat here. Their job, during combat, was to shoot anyone who deserted/ran away from, his position.

Various Nazis in leadership positions went to great lengths to remind the German people of their roots, going back to pagan times. This was part of the propaganda war the government waged against the German people.

“Forest as Volk: Ewiger Wald and the Religion of Nature in the Third Reich.” This was connected to the “blood and soil” concept. You were fighting for the Fatherland against Bolshevism. A reading of Mein Kampf would show that.

Ed

 

[Todd977]

After removing the idols from them, the Catholic Church sometimes converted pagan temples into Catholic churches. So, re-purposing a candle holder once given out as an award to members of the SS for use as a candle holder for candles lit as a prayer for the dead or some other good purpose shouldn’t be a problem since the symbols on it, though not their original meaning, can be understood, as I previously mentioned, as Christian or Christian-friendly symbols. My answer might be different if the symbols were rotated swastikas or inverted pentagrams. Personally, if it were my candle holder, because of its past association with the SS, I would probably first ask a priest to bless it before using it. I don’t think there is anything wrong with lighting a candle on the winter solstice or to commemorate other astronomical events, such as the new moon, as long as it is done in honor of the Lord. (See Romans 14:5-6)

 

[Ironcross13]

There has been many post on here with alot of hate for the Nazis and SS.
I have studied history myself read alot of SS men’s personal accounts. i have made my own mine up. I don’t listen to what main steam media tell me or the history channel ect.
We have been fed alot of propaganda about the SS and Nazis.
I know most of these guys was fighting for there homeland. If you ever visit any late war graves you will see the dead young men can we condemn them no not atall.
German was destroyed after the war they was fighting for there counties existence.

I suppose should not of brought this up on here as i was to get alot of bad reply’s.
I feel i am very interested in the SS and Nazis. I do not want to do bad buy god.
I just like to have my own pieces of history from a fascinating time in history.

I know there is not way i could stop my hobby and i believe the SS ans Nazis was not as bad as is made out.

Maybe it was a bad idea to post on here for.
I just wanted to know if i was offending god. Hitler was a catholic it was Himmlier who wanted to show the Germans there pagan routes.

I suppose this thread was not a good idea. As people have such a negative opinion of this stuff.