Germans quit church during 2010 sex scandal

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The number of people leaving the Roman Catholic Church in Germany jumped by nearly 50 percent in 2010 as an abuse scandal widened, new data showed Friday.
Deaths and people turning away from the church heavily outnumbered baptisms, which reached a record low, putting one of the world’s wealthiest and most influential Catholic Churches further in decline.
The numbers are easily tracked because members pay a church tax unless they formally leave the congregation — the same reason the declining membership has led to increasing budget shortfalls for the church.
news.yahoo.com/germans-quit-church-during-2010-sex-scandal-152602181.html;_ylt=AjHBF87mAHn0G5oQn5OIn607Xs8F;_ylu=X3oDMTM5ZDAydWpoBHBrZwM2YmM0ZjI2ZS02NTY2LTMyZGItOWEzOS0wOWUxOTMwMWEwNzAEcG9zAzMEc2VjA01lZGlhVG9wU3RvcnkEdmVyAzNhOTdlYTUwLWI5ZjctMTFlMC1iZWJmLTBmOGRjMGM4ZjIxOQ–;_ylg=X3oDMTFwc3ZuNThtBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdAN1c3xyZWxpZ2lvbgRwdANzZWN0aW9ucw–;_ylv=3

Perhaps such a trend is part of the reason Pope Benedict stresses the need to evangelize Europe. Surely a German pope would have an advantage in stanching the losses in Germany?
 
This seems to have all stemmed from a 1962 Vatican Directive sent to all the Bishops in the World by then Head of the Holy Office Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani. The Mandate ordered the excommunication of child victims going outside the Church and the movement of pedophile priests, under the guise of confessional secrecy.

cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/06/eveningnews/main566978.shtml

God Bless
 
What is happening in Germany is merely a sign of the apostasy among the young that began in 1968, of which the Holy Father remembers only too well. The liberals took over the Church, although they did not, for reasons I cannot know, do not go with Kueng and his fellow Gnostics. God knows how many of the clergy are still Christians, for they have ceased to preach the Gospel. The laity has included many cultural Catholics, but in the wake of the scandal, what is left of their faith simply evaporates. The lasst step is to say, why should I support an institution whose leaders obviously do not believe in the doctrines they are supposed to teach.
 
Let them leave… For all of those that leave there are thousands who come home to Holy Mother Church. And I welcome a much smaller Catholic Church. It´s just as Pope Benedict XVI said when he was still a cardinal that the Catholic Church is going to have a ¨New Springtime¨. Amen! 👍

God bless
 
I agree. Let them leave and wave bye to them as they walk out the door.

If they stay with us, they will be unhappy and affect everyone else. They may need to venture out to come to the realization that there is only one true faith and it is the Catholic Church. Similar to the prodigal son story.

Maybe they will come back someday. We can help if we live holy lives and are cheerful.

Be a saint! What else is there.
 
But surely nothing could justify the excommunication of victims!
 
The Mandate ordered the excommunication of child victims going outside the Church and the movement of pedophile priests, under the guise of confessional secrecy.
Do you an official reference for this? I can’t find one.

The article you cited, as well as Crimen sollicitationis, notes excommunication for Church officials (priests, etc.) but not for victims.
 
Do you an official reference for this? I can’t find one.

The article you cited, as well as Crimen sollicitationis, notes excommunication for Church officials (priests, etc.) but not for victims.
The following site shows the location of the quotes:

advancedchristianity.com/Pages/CBS/CBS.htm

The document recovered via a court order:

bishop-accountability.org/downloads/CrimenSollicitationes-Unprotected.pdf

has slightly different wording than the one posted on the Vatican website:

vatican.va/resources/resources_crimen-sollicitationis-1962_en.html

The Vatican was recently forced via a court order to post the document, but they watered it down from the original sent to every Bishop in 1962.

It’s immediately obvious that the document was specifically designed to silence the child victims. Any attempt of the victim to communicate the abuse to authorities results in excommunication from the Roman Catholic Church for life.

Preliminaries – 11 (restrained by perpetual silence)

Preliminaries – 13 (accuser must be silenced)

Title 1 – 18 (excommunication)

Title 1 – 21 (secrecy till death)

Title 1 – The First Knowledge of the Crime – Paragraph 23 (threaten the victim)

God Bless
 
I lament the fact of church members leaving the Church due to leadership abuse scandals, in just the same way that I would lament, as a brother, runaway brothers & sisters due to parental abuse scandals. “Do as I say, not as I do” is a hard pill to swallow from authority. I see nothing to recommend, to construe as “good”, about this unfortunate runaway trend and, at the same time, sympathize & renounce the runaway solution, much as I sympathize & renounce the Protestant Reformation.

Protestants are not wrong because they protest; they are wrong because they didn’t stay, pray, and act as force for the proper reforms of their Mother the Church. Many among the Pharisees & Saducees may have been hypocrites & vipers, but God of Abraham, Jacob & Isaac still was to be found in the Jewish religion during Jesus lifetime. One doesn’t renounce what authority says if it is true from God, just because the actions of our fallen natures, including authority figures, does not measure up to truth.

The fact is that clerical abuse makes it extremely hard to believe in the “Real Presence”, precisely because priests celebrate the Real Presence every day. The words of John, chapter 6, come to mind, especially.
67
Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”
68
Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69
We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”
70
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?”
71
He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he who would betray him, one of the Twelve.
 
I don’t understand the attitude of “let them leave” in essence a good riddance attitude against those who lose faith due to immoral actions of some people in the Church. Instead I think the focus should be on those who bring scandal by their reckless actions and abuses of others.
 
The following site shows the location of the quotes:

advancedchristianity.com/Pages/CBS/CBS.htm

The document recovered via a court order:

bishop-accountability.org/downloads/CrimenSollicitationes-Unprotected.pdf

has slightly different wording than the one posted on the Vatican website:

vatican.va/resources/resources_crimen-sollicitationis-1962_en.html

The Vatican was recently forced via a court order to post the document, but they watered it down from the original sent to every Bishop in 1962.

It’s immediately obvious that the document was specifically designed to silence the child victims. Any attempt of the victim to communicate the abuse to authorities results in excommunication from the Roman Catholic Church for life.

Preliminaries – 11 (restrained by perpetual silence)

Preliminaries – 13 (accuser must be silenced)

Title 1 – 18 (excommunication)

Title 1 – 21 (secrecy till death)

Title 1 – The First Knowledge of the Crime – Paragraph 23 (threaten the victim)

God Bless
You can’t just ignore this, waving your havds crying “the Church is Holy!! The Church is Holy!!”

This letter to bishops is abominable!!

It doesn’t mean the Church is bad, certainly not, but at least ACKNOWLEDGE IT!!
 
Admittedly, I almost left the Church. It still crosses my mind every now and then, but what keeps me in the Church is that I still believe the Catholic Church was started by Jesus with St. Peter as the first Pope, and I guess that’s what really matters
 
Admittedly, I almost left the Church. It still crosses my mind every now and then, but what keeps me in the Church is that I still believe the Catholic Church was started by Jesus with St. Peter as the first Pope, and I guess that’s what really matters
This is the same thing that keeps me in the church no matter what else comes up. i have to admit that a lot has come up and it’s getting more difficult.
 
Admittedly, I almost left the Church. It still crosses my mind every now and then, but what keeps me in the Church is that I still believe the Catholic Church was started by Jesus with St. Peter as the first Pope, and I guess that’s what really matters
I totally agree. People ask me why I am still Catholic in light of the abuse and I say that I am Catholic not because I like the Pope or my Bishop or Priest but because of what it teaches. Clergy will come and go in our lifetime but the teachings remain!
 
I stay because it is the ONLY true Church, regardless of the failures of some of it’s members!
 
The following site shows the location of the quotes:

The Vatican was recently forced via a court order to post the document, but they watered it down from the original sent to every Bishop in 1962.
Evidence for this? The difference between the two documents seems merely to be that the “official” one is a much better translation into clear English–the typescript was clearly done by someone who was having trouble understanding the Latin, or else someone for whom English was not the native language. I could not find a place where the official document watered anything down.
It’s immediately obvious that the document was specifically designed to silence the child victims.
It’s immediately obvious to me that it’s nothing of the sort. First of all, it doesn’t just apply to minors but to anyone solicited by a priest. And in the second place, the concern seems to be primarily to prevent the ecclesiastical officials involved from breaking the seal of secrecy. I can’t detect any particular concern with silencing the accuser–in fact, the typescript has a rather unintelligible clause which seems to be making an exception from the “censure” on behalf of the accuser. The official document makes it a little clearer (and not in a way that particularly benefits the Vatican, in contrast to your claim above)–it appears that all it’s saying is that the accuser won’t be censured unless they were explicitly warned. I’m still a bit confused about this, but I certainly see no reason to think that the document was primarily intended to silence accusers.

I also note that you say “victim” instead of “accuser,” implying that all accusations are true. This is clearly an unjust assumption on your part. A concern for secrecy is justified in part because even a frivolous accusation of this kind can destroy someone’s career/ministry. I agree that this concern should not have too much weight over against the need to protect innocent victims, and that the clericalism of the Roman hierarchy has led them to give it too much weight–but it remains a valid concern and not a sinister conspiracy.
Any attempt of the victim to communicate the abuse to authorities
Other than Church authorities. Also, it’s not clear if this oath would bind the victim not to speak of the abuse, or just not to divulge what had happened in the trial. The wikipedia article on Crimen Sollicitationis claims the latter–I don’t find it to be obvious one way or the other from the document itself.

If the oath did apply just to the contents of the trial, then that would explain the confusing language implying that a censure wouldn’t always be necessary for the accuser. In some cases, other confidential information might be divulged, and the accuser would be bound to be silent about that. I may be wrong in my interpretation here.

But it seems pretty clear to me that to read the document as concerned with silencing accusers/victims is to read it wrongly. One can make a very good case that it’s not nearly concerned enough with the way its implementation would affect victims, but that’s a different (though still disturbing) accusation.

Edwin
 
It’s immediately obvious that the document was specifically designed to silence the child victims. Any attempt of the victim to communicate the abuse to authorities results in excommunication from the Roman Catholic Church for life.
What is obvious is that you have copied that claim from the AdvancedChristianity.com website. Less obvious, but a quick reading will show, is that those claims are a gross misinterpretation of the Vatican document.

A bit of online investigation shows that the AdvancedChristianity.com website is very big on the works of the controversial mystic, Maria Valtorta. Her writings, reportedly were blocked from publication by Cardinal Ottaviani.

Since Cardinal Ottaviani approved the Vatican document we are discussing, I suspect the misinterpretations given to it by AdvancedChristianity.com are a deliberate attempt to smear his reputation.
 
Nearly twice as many Germans left the Roman Catholic Church in 2010 as the year before, as the country faced a spate of cases of priests allegedly sexually abusing minors.

Official numbers released Thursday by Germany’s Roman Catholic Church show a jump of 46.5 percent in 2010 of the number of people quitting the church as compared with 2009.

Some 181,000 people quit their memberships, with the dioceses of Munich and Freising, Augsburg and Freiburg recording the highest loss of members.

Germans are not required to say why they want to strike their church membership, but many have blamed the reports of sexual and physical abuse of hundreds of children by clergy that surfaced last year.

The news comes ahead of a planned visit by German-born Pope Benedict XVI on Sept 22-25.

guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9770573
 
Nearly twice as many Germans left the Roman Catholic Church in 2010 as the year before, as the country faced a spate of cases of priests allegedly sexually abusing minors.

Official numbers released Thursday by Germany’s Roman Catholic Church show a jump of 46.5 percent in 2010 of the number of people quitting the church as compared with 2009.

Some 181,000 people quit their memberships, with the dioceses of Munich and Freising, Augsburg and Freiburg recording the highest loss of members.

Germans are not required to say why they want to strike their church membership, but many have blamed the reports of sexual and physical abuse of hundreds of children by clergy that surfaced last year.

The news comes ahead of a planned visit by German-born Pope Benedict XVI on Sept 22-25.

guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9770573
I often wonder if the real reason they are leaving is because of the abuse issues, or they find this as the perfect justification for wanting to leave the Church anyway.
 
I stay because it is the ONLY true Church, regardless of the failures of some of it’s members!/QUOTE

ALL churches, denominations, etc have sinners WITHIN their ranks (the Catholic Church included), but, unfortunately, some churches and denominations now officially sanction acts contract to Sacred Scripture and Tradition. Long live the Catholic Church.
 
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