Germany is quietly building a European army under its command

[Kaninchen]

So much conspiracy all around. I think it will be much worse if the paid populists come to power and divide Europe into hostile sectors, better strong army in a strong united Europe than to go on war against each other.

Goodness, we agree on something!

 

[ARSpade]

Possibly Poland will be as well if the U.S. will arm Poland meaningfully.

Erm, Poland is one of the few NATO countries that actually spends over the limit of 2% of GDP on defense. They’re armed quite meaningfully right now.

On paper, and even by ignoring the German military’s massive maintenance and availability problems, Poland could steamroll Germany. For example, Germany has (on paper), 250 Leopards. Poland has 247, and then a ton of T-72 variants.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Erm, Poland is one of the few NATO countries that actually spends over the limit of 2% of GDP on defense. They’re armed quite meaningfully right now.

On paper, and even by ignoring the German military’s massive maintenance and availability problems, Poland could steamroll Germany. For example, Germany has (on paper), 250 Leopards. Poland has 247, and then a ton of T-72 variants.

But Poland’s potential adversary is not Germany. It’s Russia. 2% of a GDP that’s smaller than Mexico’s isn’t a whole lot of money. Russia has 30 times the army of Poland in manpower, and 60 times the number of tanks. That’s why I suggested that perhaps the U.S. should help Poland build up its force capabilities.

Which is not to say Britain and others couldn’t increase their capabilities. They could, and probably should.

But my real point was that U.S., Britain and Canada really are NATO as a practical matter. Yes, other NATO countries have very capable elite forces. But as against a 3 million man Russian army, (counting both active and reserve manpower) that’s not enough for a serious defense.

 

[Athanasiy]

It’s not conspiracy, it’s a legitimate question.

People like Nigel Farage are not dividing Europe, people like Angela Merkel with Mass Islamic Immigration are dividing Europe. EU or not, any nation that has taken in Mass Islamic Immigration will be divided.

When you talk about a ‘strong united Europe’ what sort of ‘United Europe’ do you envisage? what sort of moral values do they hold? Who controls this army? What say do you get in the whole thing? (Do you get to vote for the head of the EU?) If one member state does something silly, will they be able to drag the rest into a major conflict that they do not want to be a part of?

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

No worries.The compassion towards refugees and castaway people has a Christian nature, аnd optimism that these people will integrate in the process of life education is a Christian optimism. There is an existential experience in “unity in diversity”, tolerance, solidarity, liberty, tolerance towards diversity, these tendencies have more humanistic nature than traditional Christian, but on the other hand, religious fascism and nationalist extremism preached by some anti-EU parties seems much more terrible to me. Yes, in EU there is politics of anti-terrorism, anti-human traffic, anti-corruption. I think there are many other creative efforts which are useful for all countries of the continent, such as- politics of ecology, social politics, politics of competition, anti-corruption, and many other creative and constructive processes, which in my personal opinion some not-EU states of Eastern Europe can never reach by themselves, outside of EU. That is why these countries need a membership in a prestige club called “EU”.

 

[Vouthon]

You seem shocked to see a comparison between the last supranational government of the European continent that was headed by Germany (the New Order) and the current one, also headed by Germany. I wonder why you find such a comparison shocking?

Is it simply making any comparison between a current government and the Nazis? Do you think that somehow the EU is not just as murderous as the Nazis were? What do you believe abortion is and what is the official EU position on abortion? In case you are ignorant, I will inform you: the EU believes that murdering an innocent unborn child is a “fundamental right”:

lifenews.com/2015/03/10/european-parliament-adopts-report-calling-abortion-a-fundamental-right/

Lifesite is a notorious website filled with slanderous gossip about Pope Francis. I would personally avoid it like herpes. Your attempt to identify the Third Reich with the EU is half-baked, off-the-wall fairy dust. I don’t even know where to start in writing a refutation. :hypno: Let me begin with this groundless “abortion” accusation. Whenever a person intends to defame an organisation or person on this forum, lacking any other pieces of culpable evidence, they tend to contrive accusations of pro-abortionism - whether baseless or not.

The EU has not enshrined abortion as a “fundamental right”. 94% of Maltese strongly believe in God and 89% regard religion to be very important in their lives. Abortion is a criminal offence under all circumstances. And 84% of Maltese are pro-EU.

Go figure.

There is a Charter of Fundamental Rights and Freedoms of the European Union. The “fundamental right” to terminate a foetus is not one of them, whereas it actually is a fundamental right under U.S. law owing to Roe v Wade. Neither, in point of fact, does it include the right to marriage for homosexual couples, something which is also now a “fundamental right” in America courtesy of ruling by the Supreme Court. In the Explanations Relating to the Charter of Fundamental Rights, it was pointed out that the Charter Article providing the right to marry (Article 9) “neither prohibits nor imposes the granting of the status of marriage to unions between people of the same sex”. So same sex unions are not considered to be a fundamental right under European law.

Family law is an area in which the EU has no competence to legislate. It is the Member States alone that can decide in situations that fall within their jurisdiction.

In fact, there are even protocols of the Treaty of Lisbon and the act concerning the conditions of accession for Malta which explicitly protect Ireland and Malta’s abortion bans, respectively. Here are the relevant protocols:

**Official Journal of the European Union

PROTOCOL on the concerns of the Irish people on the Treaty of Lisbon

THE HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES’,

HAVE AGREED UPON the following provisions, which shall be annexed to the Treaty on European Union and to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union:

TITLE I

RIGHT TO LIFE, FAMILY AND EDUCATION

Article 1

Nothing in the Treaty of Lisbon attributing legal status to the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, or in the provisions of that Treaty in the area of Freedom, Security and Justice affects in any way the scope and applicability of the protection of the right to life in Article 40.3.1, 40.3.2 and 40.3.3, the protection of the family in Article 41 and the protection of the rights in respect of education in Articles 42 and 44.2.4 and 44.2.5 provided by the Constitution of Ireland**

eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte…03T%2FPRO%2F07

**Protocol No 7

on abortion in Malta

THE HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES,
HAVE AGREED UPON THE FOLLOWING PROVISION:

Nothing in the Treaty on European Union, or in the Treaties establishing the European Communities, or in the Treaties or Acts modifying or supplementing those Treaties, shall affect the application in the territory of Malta of national legislation relating to abortion.**

federacao-vida.com.pt/ind…icias&Itemid=8

**A Protocol is a legally binding instrument that is enforceable in a court of law, including the European Court of Justice. The wording of this Protocol clearly ensures that in any case of possible conflict between EU law and Maltese law or jurisprudence on the issue of abortion, Maltese law will prevail.

“Abortion is illegal in Malta and punishable at law under Section 241-243A of the Criminal Code. On its part, the EU has no laws on the legalisation of abortion. Nor does it have any competence to make such laws”**

In the United States, by comparison, Roe v Wade is federal law meaning that access to abortion is a civil right regardless of the concerns of “Bible Belt” states in the South.

What US state has banned abortion outright? Within the EU, Malta is an example of a member state where abortion is completely illegal.

Roe v Wade makes this impossible for a U.S. state, no matter how pro-life its legislature may be - as with Mississippi.

 

[Vouthon]

Of course abortion is horrendous mass murder of the innocent… but even so, its absurd to compare Nazi Germany’s vision for Europe with the modern EU… most people who support abortion are deceived. They are often otherwise good and compassionate people. This doesn’t mitigate the evil of abortion, but it does mitigate culpability. Let me ask you this… would you have coffee with a soup kitchen volunteer who supports abortion or would you start telling them they’re basically just an SS Officer in a new uniform?

I don’t know what this general fear of supranational organizations is all about. Isn’t that exactly what, say, the United States, Germany, or the UK already were to begin with? A union of nations / states with their own distinct identities consolidating resources for the common good. Germany as a nation state is a relatively young idea…maybe we should go back to the hundreds of tiny principalities that dotted Europe a couple centuries ago.

I completely agree with everything you say here!

Canada, Belgium, the UK and Spain are all “culturally and linguistically diverse” countries or “multinational unions”. Spain is a country comprised of something like eight distinct nationalities and many more autonomous communities.

That is no barrier to politico-economic unification. Scotland and England have been in political union since 1707 despite having distinct national identities, cultures, legal systems, education systems and indeed languages (Scots and Gaelic in Scotland), united under the larger British identity and shared institutions.

European integration refers to integration between Member States - “the ever closer union between the peoples of Europe” in the words of the Treaty of Rome in 1957. The motto of the European Union is “United in Diversity”.

As Pope St. John Paul II wrote in his 2003 apostolic exhortation Ecclesia in Europe:

w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_20030628_ecclesia-in-europa.html

POST-SYNODAL
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION

ECCLESIA IN EUROPA

OF HIS HOLINESS

POPE JOHN PAUL II

Mutual recognition, forms of cooperation and exchanges of all sorts are being developed in such a way that little by little, a culture, indeed a European consciousness, is being created. This we hope will encourage, especially among the young, a sense of fraternity and the will to share. We note as a very positive factor that the whole of this process is developing according to democratic procedures, in a peaceful way and in the spirit of freedom which respects and fosters legitimate diversity, encouraging and sustaining the process leading to the growing unity of Europe…

More than a geographical area, Europe can be described as “a primarily cultural and historical concept, which denotes a reality born as a continent thanks also to the unifying force of Christianity, which has been capable of integrating peoples and cultures among themselves, and which is intimately linked to the whole of European culture”.(169)

In the process of transformation which it is now undergoing, Europe is called above all to rediscover its true identity. Even though it has developed into a highly diversified reality, it needs to build a new model of unity in diversity, as a community of reconciled nations open to the other continents and engaged in the present process of globalization…

1. **The European Union continues to expand. All peoples who share its same fundamental heritage have a vocation to take part in it, on a short-term or a long-term basis. **

w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/speeches/2002/june/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20020622_costituzione-europea.html

**MESSAGE OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE EUROPEAN STUDY CONGRESS
ON THE THEME: “TOWARDS A EUROPEAN CONSTITUTION?”

The expansion of the European Union or rather, for the process of “Europeanization” of the whole continental area, that I have fostered, is a priority to be pursued courageously and quickly in order to respond effectively to the expectations of millions of men and women who know that they are bound together by a common history and who hope for a destiny of unity and solidarity… **

 

[Athanasiy]

There are places in Europe where abortion is restricted to cases of maternal life, mental health, health, rape, fetal defects, and/or socioeconomic factors
Restricted to cases of maternal life, mental health, health, rape, and/or fetal defects.
There are anti-abortion groups in many European countries. in the Republic of Ireland abortions are illegal except when a woman’s life is at imminent risk.
There are several major anti-abortion groups in the Republic of Ireland,Pro Life Campaign,Youth DefenceandIona Institute.
InLiechtensteinan application to legalize abortions was rejected by a slim majority in*a referendum in 2011. The opponents, which included Prince Alois, got 500 votes more and eventually settled at 52.3 percent compared with 47.7 percent.
Prince Alois had announced the use of his veto in advance if necessary to prevent the introduction of abortion.
In Spain, over one million demonstrators took part in a march in Madrid in October 2009 to protest plans by the government of José Luis Zapatero to legalize elective abortions and eliminate parental consent restrictions.
In 2010 1,067,315 Spaniards signed a petition against the liberal abortion policy of the government. The petition was launched by the organizations “Derecho a vivir” (right to life) and “Hazteoir” (make yourself heard).
In Eastern Europe the anti-abortion movements also try to make their voices heard.
Abortion is evil and Christian preachers should not be reconciled with this social evil which unfortunately exists at the level of laws, аs in the EU countries, so in the ex-countries of materialistic communism which started this practice of legalized infanticide.

 

[Estevao]

Lifesite is a notorious website filled with slanderous gossip about Pope Francis. I would personally avoid it like herpes. Your attempt to identify the Third Reich with the EU is half-baked, off-the-wall fairy dust. I don’t even know where to start in writing a refutation. :hypno: Let me begin with this groundless “abortion” accusation. Whenever a person intends to defame an organisation or person on this forum, lacking any other pieces of culpable evidence, they tend to contrive accusations of pro-abortionism - whether baseless or not.

The EU has not enshrined abortion as a “fundamental right”. 94% of Maltese strongly believe in God and 89% regard religion to be very important in their lives. Abortion is a criminal offence under all circumstances. And 84% of Maltese are pro-EU.

…

First, I did not cite lifesitenews, and even if I had, the source is simply an act of the EU parliament, where a majority of elected officials of this governing body, which you constantly shill for on this forum, voted to declare abortion a fundamental right. No act of US congress has ever done anything like this. The closest thing you have is a group of a few un-elected justices making an absurd decision that abortion is protected by the constitution and buttressing this absurdity with the ridiculous line “At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.” Some eminent justices have dissented from this chicanery, such as Byron White and Antonin Scalia. Thankfully, with the victory of Trump over Crooked H, this decision will be overturned within the next 8 years and abortion laws will go back to the states.

My comparison between the Nazis and the EU on the subject of the right to life was in response to twf’s accusation at me for daring to make a simple historical comparison between the last supranational government of the European continent headed by Germany (the New Order) and the current one headed by Germany. I fail to see how one cannot notice any historical continuities here. They are very similar in terms of how rump governments, who still have very real governments and laws, are gamed by the Germans to produce economic cooperation that benefits Germany and makes other countries poorer. It wasn’t the outright subjugation that the Nazis enacted on eastern europe. This is the clearest continuity. It’s a shame you seem so eager to deny history. You have made very tenuous comparisons ITT between the EU and historical countries of Christendom and the bi-national countries of Canada and Belgium, but somehow my comparison is out of bounds.