Germany reels at abuse in top Jesuit school

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FiberZilla said:
The Word of God says that a pastor should have a wife and children. I have heard some argue that the below verse was addressing polygamy. That may be so, but that is a terribly incomplete interpretation. As Paul was telling Timothy: Having a well run family with obedient children demonstrates a certain level of competence in caring for the church.

“Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?” (1 Timothy 3:1-5)

I believe that disregarding the Word of God always leads to a bad outcome.
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*I don’t know if that passage indicates that, but again, interesting take. I don’t think it’s a celibacy issue…if that were so, why are these scandals mainly involving boys? I could see if priests were having affairs with women of their parishes…that could be related to celibacy moreso…but, it’s not normal for an adult man to gravitate his sexual desires towards boys. And many married men do this, also…so I don’t think it’s wrapped up in celibacy. That tells me that many of these men who went into the priesthood had psychological problems, that were unaddressed before they entered the seminary. I think we have different tests and protocols now that can detect if someone would be unfit for the priesthood, based on their psychological makeup. That is a start to making sure this never happens again, but doing away with celibacy…I don’t see that as being the reason behind the priest sex scandals. *
 
The church is taking way to long in dealing with this issue. What needs to be done is revise the code of canon law so that if a priest (or anyone for that matter) commits an act of sexual assult the are ipso facto excommunicated and the only way back in is to turn them selves in to law enforcement and accept without complaint the punishment they are given after they have served time they can be let back in but must work in places where they can not do it again like in prisons or aids clinics or homeless shealters. The church is very slow in dealing with this and as members we need to give the bishops a kick in the butt and get them going.
 
Back to Fiber zilla - - that Protestant hymns were the first illicit departure from the “code” of Catholic church music. In their wake all sorts of other commercially-driven, unprincipled, secular-type songs invaded the Catholic churches, and with them came the pianos, the guitars, the kazoos, what have you. The feeling was that “anything goes” - - no standards, no principles: a “looseness” and casualness. Hmmm . . it’s no surprise that troubled clergy eventually felt “at home” in acting out their perversions.
Protestant hymns, by the way, were the antithesis of the ancient Catholic notion of the Sacred: only in the Catholic Church is there the Sacred because the Protestants had rejected over a thousand years of developed Christian doctrine. Only the Catholic church has the sacraments.
And, as a matter of fact, it was in Germany that the core of dissent from the Sacred and other notions first became apparent, way back in the first decades of the 20th century. The chickens coming home to roost, in a sense. Lots of rot must still be there, unchecked, in Germany.
 
maryoberle said:
Back to Fiber zilla - - that Protestant hymns were the first illicit departure from the “code” of Catholic church music. In their wake all sorts of other commercially-driven, unprincipled, secular-type songs invaded the Catholic churches, and with them came the pianos, the guitars, the kazoos, what have you. The feeling was that “anything goes” - - no standards, no principles: a “looseness” and casualness. Hmmm . . it’s no surprise that troubled clergy eventually felt “at home” in acting out their perversions.
Protestant hymns, by the way, were the antithesis of the ancient Catholic notion of the Sacred: only in the Catholic Church is there the Sacred because the Protestants had rejected over a thousand years of developed Christian doctrine. Only the Catholic church has the sacraments.
And, as a matter of fact, it was in Germany that the core of dissent from the Sacred and other notions first became apparent, way back in the first decades of the 20th century. The chickens coming home to roost, in a sense. Lots of rot must still be there, unchecked, in Germany.
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This wasn’t caused by protestantism. I don’t want to get into the whole Vatican II debate, but it is my observation that since the 1960s the catholic faith looks completely different both in apperance and practice. At the same time the church was embracing protestantism and calling for unity. That’s really confusing because if protestantism is in error, a call for unity would be equal to condoning heresy.

Equally saddening with the kazoos & looseness in catholic churches, I have seen perhaps even greater abomination is some of the evengelical churches I’ve visited. Plate spinners, dancing, hooting and hollering… all an abomination.

Thankfully, I’ve settled in with a local congregation with sound, fundamental Bible preaching sermons that call for repentence from sin, and promotion of the gospel of Jesus Christ and praise of Him using traditional hymns.

Thinking deeper, I don’t know if the perversion has anything to do with the liberalism because it has been occurring to one degree or another since the 4th century. In ancient Greek and Roman secular culture, sexual abuse of children was accepted as normal. Truth is, the problem is actually less now than ever before in history.

The biggest difference is that now, we have high tech mass media and world wide instant communication. Nothing is secret anymore.
 
Hi, Fiberzilla- -

So are you attending a weekly Catholic Mass?
The strong Bible-based exposure and preaching is actually a direct result of the re-directed emphasis due to the Council.
 
wisdomseeker said:
what has happened to the priesthood? i remember teh 70’s when priests were respected and had authority. and never heard of a priest ever sexually abusing any children. at least at my home country. we all looked up to them as saints. i remember when i heard that the priest whipped my brother with the cord he worn around his waist. families agreed with priests, we were all part of one family. today, it seems we have been so far apart. whatever happened to the priesthood?
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Abuse of children by priests and religious is a very, very old story. There are numerous writings regarding the disciplining of medieval monks, for example, over the same behavior. As long as there are people in positions of power and authority, there will be abuses of that power and authority. What is different today is a willingness to talk about such abuse, the ability to make allegations of abuse public through the media, and legal institutions that ordinary people can use to redress their grievances. I don’t think it’s more prevalent today, but it certainly is out in the open.
 
Alan55 said:
Abuse of children by priests and religious is a very, very old story. There are numerous writings regarding the disciplining of medieval monks, for example, over the same behavior. As long as there are people in positions of power and authority, there will be abuses of that power and authority. What is different today is a willingness to talk about such abuse, the ability to make allegations of abuse public through the media, and legal institutions that ordinary people can use to redress their grievances. I don’t think it’s more prevalent today, but it certainly is out in the open.
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It’s actually much less prevalent today. This has been embedded in the institution since the transition from Rome’s pre-christian culture when it was a matter of routine. Christianity eliminated the most severe forms of child abuse such as child brothels and stage shows where children were violated sexually before an audience. But unfortunately other abuses endured. For children, beatings were also a part of daily existence.

Long before the middle ages, parents were handing over their children to monasteries and nunneries to be used as “servants”. Mind you the catholic church didn’t invent this abuse, it was part of the culture from the pre-christian era and it has taken centuries for it to be dealt with.

What is coming to light today are incidents that occurred within our lifetimes as the pattern of abuse was winding down with the advent of mass communications. I would have to guess that over the last 10 to 20 years, due to the lights being turned on child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church has ground to virtually a complete stop.

These days with all of the accountability measures and awareness, the church is probably the safest place your kid can be!
 
maryoberle said:
Hi, Fiberzilla- -

So are you attending a weekly Catholic Mass?
The strong Bible-based exposure and preaching is actually a direct result of the re-directed emphasis due to the Council.
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I attend a conservative evangelical church. I have been to many hundreds of catholic Masses over the years with friends and family and have yet to hear the Gospel that’s found in scripture. Readings and response Psalms yes, but the Gospel of repentance and the good news of Christ’s finished work of salvation on the cross, no!
 
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