Get over it - said Mulvaney

[JonNC]

JonNC:

#He threatens Ukraine with a clear quid pro quo to fire the prosecutor. Six hours, he brags later. He gave them six hours, then he is going home.

They don’t even try to hide their corruption. They are never held responsible. Trump gets in and uh oh, he isn’t one of us! Every corrupt Democrat and never trumper Republican have been trying to get rid of him from day one; to protect themselves.

All through this thing, I’ve tried to give Biden the benefit of the doubt. I even try to give Durbin and the other Democrat senators who threatened the Ukraine government with a quid pro quo if they didn’t help the Mueller hoax.
But with far less evidence of pressure for personal reasons, these people continue their ongoing attempts to undermine the administration and overthrow a duly elected president. It is truly despicable.

 

[Woodyl57]

And they are running a soviet style impeachment process behind closed doors and stiff arming the minority. Oh, they play the constitution card and say the House sets the rules. But the House hasn’t set the rules. Pelosi and Schiff have. The full House hasn’t had a say. Constitution gives the House the authority, not the Speaker of the House, not the head of some committee, not the majority.

It’s all despicable.

Schiff said he had indisputable evidence of Russian collusion for 2 years and had nothing so every time he talks about how much worse it’s getting I feel better.

 

[JonNC]

And they are running a soviet style impeachment process behind closed doors and stiff arming the minority. Oh, they play the constitution card and say the House sets the rules. But the House hasn’t set the rules. Pelosi and Schiff have. The full House hasn’t had a say. Constitution gives the House the authority, not the Speaker of the House, not the head of some committee, not the majority.

It’s all despicable.

Soviet style? I think it more fascistic, but I’m picking at nits.

 

[Woodyl57]

Soviet style? I think it more fascistic, but I’m picking at nits.

I don’t think they are all that far apart, some sort of socialist, but I can go with fascistic.

 

[dvdjs]

#A prosecutor has targeted Burisma for investigation.

No.

Timeline: Trump, Giuliani, Bidens, and Ukraine (updated)

A chronology of "Ukrainegate" and the Trump-Giuliani pressure on Ukraine to investigate former Vice President and 2020 presidential candidate Joe Biden.

www.justsecurity.org

April 16, 2014 – U.K. investigates Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevskiy

The U.K.’s Serious Fraud Office (SFO) blocks accounts of Burisma’s majority shareholder, Mykola Zlochevskiy. A British court conducts a hearing on Dec. 3-5, 2014, and unblocks the accounts in a Jan. 21, 2015 judgment, (full text), finding that none of the evidence “establishes reasonable grounds for a belief that his assets were unlawfully acquired as a result of misconduct in public office.” The SFO apparently continued its investigation until at least May 2015, when a spokeswoman told The Guardian, “We are disappointed we were not provided with the evidence by authorities in the Ukraine necessary to keep this restraint order in place.” The newspaper said she “declined to comment further because she said the investigation was ongoing.” (In September 2015, U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt heavily criticizes officials in the Office of Prosecutor General in a public speech for not cooperating sufficiently with and even > undermining the British investigation. See below.)

June 19, 2014 – The Ukrainian Parliament approves Poroshenko’s appointment of former law enforcement officer and member of Parliament Vitaly Yarema as prosecutor general.

Aug. 5, 2014 – Ukraine investigation of Burisma
Ukrainian Prosecutor General Vitaly Yarema opens an investigation of Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevskiy on suspicion of “unlawful enrichment.” (The investigation is referenced in the January 2015 U.K. court judgment, which concludes that the Ukrainian probe might have been started as a result of a misinterpretation of the British account freeze.) Zlochevskiy’s American lawyer, John Buretta, a former U.S. deputy assistant attorney general, says in a 2017 Q&A on the Burisma website that a court in Kyiv ordered the case closed in September 2016 because no evidence of wrongdoing had been presented. While suspicions remain over how Zlochevskiy obtained his wealth and what happened to taxpayer money while he held public office, the British judge in the January 2015 U.K. judgment observed, “Allegations of corruption against political opponents appear to have been a feature of Ukrainian political life at this time.”

If you read thought he link, you see that the fired prosecutor was not going after corruption, including officials who blocked efforts to go after people in Burisma.

 

[Marksoto]

Both can be true i guess.

 

[JapaneseKappa]

What do you mean far less evidence? We have had multiple administration staffers testify that Trump was witholding Ukrainian aid for dirt on political opponents.

I gave you evidence that the entire EU wanted the corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor out. The IMF wanted the prosecutor out:

IMF warns Ukraine it will halt $40bn bailout unless corruption stops

Christine Lagarde says it is hard to see the programme continuing ‘without substantial effort’ to improve governance

www.theguardian.com

Do we not understand the difference here? You can’t manipulate US financial aid for personal benefit, as Trump clearly tried to do. You can withhold US aid to further the interests of the state, which Biden (and others) clearly did. Now you’ve also said Trump is interested in preventing election interference. Except I also gave evidence of him explicitly saying he wasn’t concerned about election interference because “we do it too.” The administration has not supported any other efforts to prevent election interference by blocking bills and obstructing the Muller probe. The election interference excuse is clearly a post-hoc attempt to justify an egregious and impeachable abuse of power.

 

[Woodyl57]

You can’t manipulate US financial aid for personal benefit, as Trump clearly tried to do. You can withhold US aid to further the interests of the state, which Biden (and others) clearly did.

This is laughable. You sound like Adam Schiff who promises the world and delivers nothing. It’s so obvious they have the can’t risk going on record with a vote to simply initiate a formal process.

And sure, protecting Hunter Biden nice little deal on the board of a Ukrainian energy company with no qualifications I am sure was in the best interest of the United States.

As usual, accuse your rivals of the crimes you actually committed.

 

[JapaneseKappa]

You haven’t supplied any evidence of wrongdoing other than mere insinuation though.

Perhaps you will listen to the lifelong and principled conservative George Will:

Trump’s gross and comprehensive incompetence now increasingly impinges upon the core presidential responsibility. This should, but will not, cause congressional Republicans to value their own and their institution’s dignity, and exercise its powers more vigorously than they profess fealty to Trump. He has issued a categorical refusal to supply witnesses and documents pertinent to the House investigation of whether he committed an impeachable offense regarding Ukraine. This refusal, which is analogous to an invocation of the Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination, justifies an inference of guilt. Worse, this refusal attacks our constitutional regime. So, the refusal is itself an impeachable offense…
Trump is not just aggressively but lawlessly exercising the interests of his place, counting on Congress, after decades of lassitude regarding its interests, being an ineffective combatant.

 

[Jeanne_S]

GeorgecWill is a never Trumper.He along with Bill Crystal,Fred Barnes et al despise Trumps every breath.His opinion is biased at best

 

[JapaneseKappa]

He along with Bill Crystal,Fred Barnes et al despise Trumps every breath.His opinion is biased at best

Yes. People with principles will generally dislike Trump. George Will opposes Trump because he understands the threat he poses to the republic, as he has eruditely explained in the piece I linked. You can disagree with him, but it is not George who is done a disservice when you just issue a blanket dismissal of his analysis.

 

[Woodyl57]

People have all different sorts or principles. Principles aren’t the same as morals. For example one of Bidens principles is protect the right to murder a child in the womb so save me the principles lecture.

If Trump is guilty it isn’t as obvious as you all would like to think. Certainly no more obvious than Bidens abuses and nepotism with Ukraine and China which you bend over backwards to explain away.

Basically comes down to a severe dislike of Trump, no morally superior man for sure, but since you defend the actions of all the others I am guessing that isn’t what bothers people about him.

Dems have nothing. If they did they would be voting. There best shot is to drag it out, hide what doesn’t fit, leak what does fit, and either hope a crime turns up or continue to sow doubt in the mind of the public.

 

[Woodyl57]

Good point that fits what I also said. Bend over backwards to defend Hillary and explain away her “obvious” crimes while believing everything CNN tells you about Trump. Guess it depends on what your definition of the word is is.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Nonsense. He aong with all the other beltway elitists are outraged that Trump had the audacity to not only run for president but win and be pretty darn good at the job. He’s pulled back the curtain on the status quo and none of them are happy about it.
His massive rallies are proof of his overwhelming approval.MAGA’

 

[Woodyl57]

He’s pulled back the curtain on the status quo and none of them are happy about it.

This is exactly what I think the big sticking point with these elites is.

 

[JapaneseKappa]

I’d have no problem condemning Biden for wrongdoing if you presented any evidence of wrongdoing beyond your own insinuations.
Trump has solicited election interference live on national television. Trump has obstructed legitimate investigations both by a special prosecutor and congress. The ONLY reason he has not yet been declared guilty is the lack of principle on the part of the republican party. And here by principle I obviously do not mean morality, but rather a belief in and willingness to defend the institutions of our democracy. Notice that to deny these facts, as many here do, require the debasement of these very institutions. Prosecutors must be declared not credible. Congressional action must be declared invalid.
So on the one hand we have people willing to stand up for our democratic principles and denounce the plain attack thereon by Trump. On the other we have republicans who either stand idly by, or actively participate in the destruction of faith in those principles and institutions.

 

[Woodyl57]

Wrong. He hasn’t. Trump haters hear what they want. Its a symptom of TDS.

 

[empacae]

Let me see if I have this straight. In order to preserve democracy, we must destroy democracy by illegally removing a lawfully elected president?

Welcome to Klown World y’all! HONK! HONK!

 

[Woodyl57]

I would be interested in seeing this national television solicitation is. I would think Mr Schiff would be all over that.

 

[JapaneseKappa]

Let me get this straight. There are no circumstances under which a president can be legitimately removed from office? That seems to contradict the constitution when it says:

The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.