Get Rid of the Celibacy Requirement

[ConstantLearner]

How can someone care about the Catholic Church if he is not concerned about its problems?

I said I’m not worried about it. Please do not change my words. I probably should have said, “unduly worried.” This has happened before. I trust G-d and the Church to straighten it out, with the help of those faithful to the Church.

 

[ConstantLearner]

Finally, I would not expect priests to date, but rather once a man has been married for some period of time, he could then seek approval from the Bishop to enter formation to become a priest. If your wife passes away or in the event your wife leaves you or something like that these married priest would not be permitted to remarry - much like how deacons are treated.

What about priests whose wives divorce them or priests who seek a divorce?

And who will pay for the housing, etc., of all the wives and children? Most Catholic families are already overextended.

What about the stress put on the children of priests to be “holier than thou?”

I think it’s better to properly prepare young men in the seminary and create lay watchdog groups, of sorts, to ensure that priests are not alone with minors. (We can’t control what adults do,)

 

[pnewton]

As it relates to the current sex scandal - I further believe, unfortunately that this idea of a non-married priesthood promotes a same-sex attracted clergy.

Celibacy is celibacy. This makes no sense. Those that molest children are not celibate. Furthermore, most child abuse occurs in families.

One fact that is clear across the board: perpetrators of child abuse and neglect are most often the child’s own parents. According to NCANDS, a 2005 study showed that 79.4% of child abusers were the parents, and the next largest pool of abusers consisted of unmarried partners of the parents of child victims. A whopping 40% of child victims were abused by their mothers acting alone, and a disturbing 17.3% were abused by both parents.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...y/201105/who-are-the-perpetrators-child-abuse

Raising families is not the answer for those prone to abusing children.

 

[Mboo]

You do not understand me at all! to put it another way: St Paul never gave recommendations to compel priests to get married! So we can not rely on St Paul’s advice to say that priests are obliged to stay single, because the same St Paul says that if we can not contain ourselves we must get married.
So follow Paul’s advice completely, and allow priests who can not contain themselves to get married!

 

[ConstantLearner]

So follow Paul’s advice completely, and allow priests who can not contain themselves to get married!

A priest who cannot contain himself hasn’t the discipline to be a priest! Or have a wife! (He will always find other women attractive and “can’t contain himself.”)

 

[Mboo]

In this case do not rely on the advice of St. Paul to justify the obligation of celibacy priests because St Paul has never given recommendations in this direction!

 

[Mboo]

Or have a wife! (He will always find other women attractive and “can’t contain himself.”)

If someone can not contain himself with a woman he is in love with, then marriage can be a solution for him!
Otherwise it is that you say somehow that St Paul is completely deceived by giving this advice

 

[StandUp4Truth]

If you’ve ever been to seminary, which I’m sure you haven’t, it drives a lot of good strong Catholic men away because the incredible homosexual subculture. It IS a homosexual problem. Especially when 81% was male boys. And among them the overwhelming majority post pubescent boys. So it is a homosexual problem. It’s hurting our vocations and obviously hurting the faithful.

I’m not sure you understand how civil discourse works, because you’ve essentially just repeated your previous posts (while sprinkling in some condescension) without responding to any of my questions.

I repeat:
Let’s entertain your premise and remove all of the priests who are SSA - WHO WILL REPLACE THEM?

We’re already closing parishes due to a lack of priests and losing souls in the process, and your plan will close many, many more.

How many faithful Catholics are you willing to abandon to eternal damnation in order to achieve your plan? Tens, hundreds, thousands?

What’s your plan to boost vocations to the priesthood sufficiently to replace the hundreds (or 1,000+) priests you’ve expelled?

Absent these details, your proposal will only hasten the demise of the Church as we know it.

 

[AlNg]

Let’s entertain your premise and remove all of the priests who are SSA - WHO WILL REPLACE THEM?

Married deacons.

 

[StandUp4Truth]

I’m no longer a practicing Catholic (nothing to do with the PA scandal), and I’m not overly worried about hell.

My apologies, I assumed you were Catholic based on your knowledge of the Church.

I left because of Matthew 7:16-20

I pray that you will return to the Church someday and work from within to help address it’s weaknesses. I think we can all agree that there is a lot of work to be done.

 

[StandUp4Truth]

Perhaps part of the reason there is a priestly shortage is because they have been weeding out good men who have tried to become priests.

Maybe if we get rid of the corruption and the bad reputation it has brought, we can get some good priests.

If true, this is disgraceful!

Assuming corrupt individuals are the problem, removal will be necessary in order to address these issues.

However, any reform plan which involves a reduction in the number of priests must also include a plan to drastically increase vocations to the priesthood to make up for the losses.

Parishes are already closing due to lack of priests and many souls are being lost, so the Church can’t afford to lose any priests right now.

 

[StandUp4Truth]

Married deacons.

Let me be clear, I’m not advocating for the removal of priests who are SSA - I don’t even believe it’s possible (how do you objectively measure SSA?)

I agree that promoting married deacons to the priesthood is the most logical solution for increasing the number of priests.

If a homosexual culture dominates the priesthood (as some here suggest), promoting married deacons to the priesthood would also go a long way towards balancing the culture.

 

[pnewton]

You do not understand me at all!

Sure I do. I simply do not agree with what you believe to be reason. I never said Paul said priests are obliged to be single. I said Paul said it was best to remain celibate. And he did. It is that Catholic Church, of which I am a faithful member, that has said it wants this “best” for the priesthood.

 

[glencor63]

Look to our Protestant and Eastern Rite/Orthodox brothers and sisters for how to create a viable priesthood with married clergy. The east has integrated celibate and married clergy for 2000 years. Being a PK
(Preachers Kid) is no more difficult than being the child of a police officer, judge, lawyer, or someone active in the military. Basically, too many Catholics want tradition for traditions sake, even when maintaining the tradition has dire consequences for the entire church.

 

[glencor63]

Unless there was an ulterior motive for demanding a celibate priesthood. The Catholic Church mandated celibacy mainly for selfish reasons. It did not want to support families or lose land/wealth to inheritance. It then looked to scripture to support its position. The laity has been taught these erroneous ideas for centuries. I’ll be frank. Yes, there are holy, celibate priests. The reality is that half are not chaste/celibate and upwards of 9% are pedophiles! The Catholic Church has created a conundrum. Most men want a living, breathing spouse and children. They marry and procreate. The pool from which the priesthood draws its members is represented disproportionately by homosexuals and those with disorders like pedophilia. That’s not to say all priests are homosexuals or pedophiles, but thousands do come from these ranks. Someone asked why Protestantism was successful. Why does God seem to bless Protestantism? Could it be that the model of the clergy adopted by the Catholic Church is NOT the model intended by Christ? A discipline elevated to a near dogma. A priesthood elevated to near deific status. The laity has no power in their own church! A bad priest has to be removed by a bishop and ultimately the Pope. What if the bishop, cardinal, and Pope are corrupt? Do you think Cardinal McCarrick cared about sexual abuse of children? Allow both married and celibate clergy and diversify the ranks.

 

[PickyPicky]

As a long-married and happily-married man, can I just mention one other benefit holy matrimony could bring a priest, if the Church ever decided to revise its current discipline.

A Church of England wedding service lays out three purposes of marriage: to provide for the birth and bringing up of children; to allow “the natural instincts and affections, implanted by God” to be “hallowed and directed aright”; and, thirdly, “for the mutual society, help, and comfort, that the one ought to have of the other, both in prosperity and adversity.”

I can bear witness to this third purpose, to the strength that this mutual society, help, and comfort brings. I am quite sure I would have been a much smaller, weaker person without it. It is not for me, of course, to say whether such additional strength would be of value to a priest.

 

[pepipop]

Fine ,if you are married and happily, but what about the laity who have to remain celibate, due to their unwanted circumstances.

I.e A spouse leaves a marriage, asks for and obtains a civil divorce, but no annulment by the church. Such lay members are not ALLOWED to remarry and must remain celibate for life. Similarly, those with SSA and unable to find a spouse. Where will the celibacy example, and continued commitment to celibacy come from in the church.

It could lead to a lot of despair and anguish on those afflicted and could open the doors to divorce, etc.

 

[john07853]

With respects to priests whose wives divorce them and the “holier than thou?” issue; the same issues exist for deacons, yet you do not see married men with families being denied their call to serve as deacons. Finally I believe the priests themselves would be unlikely to seek divorce since it is not really in line with Catholic teaching anyway (though I’m sure extreme exceptions would exists) - but even if they did - so what? That would certainly be no more a scandal than what we deal with today.

I think to say “most Catholic families are already overextended” is a generalization, however “most” men do not become priests, therefore “most” married men would not likely become priests. This would simply have to be an issue they factor in when discerning their call.

I agree that proper formation and preparation for and in seminary is necessary, however it is not the entire answer. I think it is important to note as well that the best predictor of future results is past performance and clearly the Church does not have a great track record of preparing young men for and in seminary.

God bless you,

John

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Nothing against the NAB but that is a modern translation and the original Greek was translated “woman” until the 1500s

 

[ConstantLearner]

My apologies, I assumed you were Catholic based on your knowledge of the Church.

Thank you, but no need to apologize. I did study Catholic theology formally in college for six years, so no doubt I sometimes sound Catholic.