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Bruised_Reed
Guest
I’d like to see some stats or articles showing that.
What does this even mean? How long do you think Mass and confession take?
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edwest211
Guest
A common misconception. Adding marriage to the mix will not automatically increase the number of men entering the seminary. Celibacy was Christ’s model to follow so the Church treasures celibacy. Acting in the person of Christ (persona Christi) is something the Church will not change.
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KJW5551
Guest
To those saying that priests are too busy for a family–you do realize that all kinds of men in all kinds of professions work demanding, time consuming jobs, right? That they have little time for their families (especially on weekdays)? Yet somehow they’re married and make it work. Yes, a priest’s life is demanding, but not uniquely demanding.
I think to make the case for celibacy you need something more than that. You need to prove that celibacy is indeed a gift that allows priests to be stronger and holier than their married brethren. I’m not convinced that’s true.
I think to make the case for celibacy you need something more than that. You need to prove that celibacy is indeed a gift that allows priests to be stronger and holier than their married brethren. I’m not convinced that’s true.
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goout
Guest
I think it’s a good idea. It’s tempting to think that stock answers to complex questions will fix this.
There are good theological and practical reasons to allow married priests.
And yes, the laity should stop denying that something is broke, and all possible changes should be looked at.
To do otherwise is less than giving our best. And we are called to be holy, not stuck in the mud.
Holiness is challenging, it requires work, and is frequently painful. And the word “repentance” means literally “change your way of thinking”.
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goout
Guest
Yes
It’s a true saying:
“if you want something done ask a busy person”.
Time seems to multiply for engaged, healthy, passionate, well adjusted people.
And, the idea that married people don’t have time to be priests carries no water, because if married priests are ordained, the number of them will multiply greatly. Do the math.
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goout
Guest
How do you figure? This is a very simple proposition.
Today let’s say we have 100 men in seminary. Next year if married men are allowed, we have x number more.
100+X > more than 100
Do the math.
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goout
Guest
Priestly celibacy is a discipline, not a theological dogma. It can change.
The Church treasures celibacy for the kingdom of God, not as a cultural adornment. Celibacy is ordered to the fruitfullness of the kingdom. If it contributes however to a culture that is not fruitful, then changes should be looked at.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
I think it is not so much a matter of busyness as a matter of a divided heart:
1 Corinthians 7:33 -34
The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord;
but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided.
1 Corinthians 7:33 -34
The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord;
but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided.
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Thom18
Guest
Prove why more=better.edwest211:
How do you figure? This is a very simple proposition.
Today let’s say we have 100 men in seminary. Next year if married men are allowed, we have x number more.
100+X > more than 100
Do the math.
“I wasn’t going to be a priest until I was told I could marry, too” isn’t an attitude I want to see in seminaries.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
I think it is not so much a matter of busyness as a matter of a divided heart:
1 Corinthians 7:33 -34
The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord;
but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided.
There is no guarantee to that. Marital problems could decrease the amount of priests staying in the priesthood.
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KJW5551
Guest
No offense to St. Paul, but that’s his opinion. I believe a person can be anxious to please God and a family at the same time.
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billsannie
Guest
I don’t know of any studies, but if you look at CAF you will find many accounts from people who came from a Protestant church where the members, and the pastor, had time and took time to know people and be welcoming. When they attended a Catholic church no one, including the priest, spoke to them or noticed when they stopped coming. Part of this is culture, but the pastor, Catholic or not, does set the tone for the Church.
If that’s not enough, check some church web sites. In the South, where I live, there are non-Catholic churches here, there and everywhere. Each one has at least one minister. Larger churches (but still not megachurches) often have a pastor, an associate pastor, and a small army of ministers of this and that, each one an accredited minister. In contrast, Catholic churches are only found in larger towns or cities. In the towns, there are at most only one or two churches. These parishes often have one priest, plus one parochial visitor priest, imported from a third-world country. Only cathedrals have as much clergy as one medium-sized Baptist church.
Even in more Catholic areas, one still finds many non-Catholic churches, each with a minister to call their own, while the one Catholic church in town is part of a cluster of four or five parishes with one or two priests among them.
As for priests having time, I commend to you my experience when my father died, which I detailed above, plus the experience of many on this forum who have difficulty finding a priest to hear confession or give counsel. Bottom line: those who allow clergy to marry have enough clergy. Latin Rite Catholics don’t. If you, or anyone else, know a better reason for this than mandatory celibacy, please tell us.
If that’s not enough, check some church web sites. In the South, where I live, there are non-Catholic churches here, there and everywhere. Each one has at least one minister. Larger churches (but still not megachurches) often have a pastor, an associate pastor, and a small army of ministers of this and that, each one an accredited minister. In contrast, Catholic churches are only found in larger towns or cities. In the towns, there are at most only one or two churches. These parishes often have one priest, plus one parochial visitor priest, imported from a third-world country. Only cathedrals have as much clergy as one medium-sized Baptist church.
Even in more Catholic areas, one still finds many non-Catholic churches, each with a minister to call their own, while the one Catholic church in town is part of a cluster of four or five parishes with one or two priests among them.
As for priests having time, I commend to you my experience when my father died, which I detailed above, plus the experience of many on this forum who have difficulty finding a priest to hear confession or give counsel. Bottom line: those who allow clergy to marry have enough clergy. Latin Rite Catholics don’t. If you, or anyone else, know a better reason for this than mandatory celibacy, please tell us.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
Hmm, okay.
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KJW5551
Guest
Did Jesus not choose (mostly) married men to follow him and found his Church? I’ll take Jesus’ actions over Paul’s words every day of the week.
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Ioannes_L
Guest
That sound a bit heretical to me.
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
Jesus himself was celibate and priests when performing their priestly duties are standing in the person of Christ.
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KJW5551
Guest
@MagdalenaRita @loannes_L
Simple Yes or No question for you: do you deny that Jesus chose mostly married men to be his disciples and to found his Church?
You both know as well as I do that celibacy is not a doctrine of the Church. It is a discipline that can be changed.
Simple Yes or No question for you: do you deny that Jesus chose mostly married men to be his disciples and to found his Church?
You both know as well as I do that celibacy is not a doctrine of the Church. It is a discipline that can be changed.
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Ioannes_L
Guest
That also sounds a bit heretical too.
And yes, Our Lord chose some married man, as far as I remember, but you’re walking a thin line with this WWJD(what would Jesus do).
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billsannie
Guest
Last I heard, we don’t know for certain about the Apostles. But even St. Paul didn’t seem to think that celibacy was a gift which God frequently gave.
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billsannie
Guest
For a number of centuries married men stood in the person of Christ, and quite well. Eastern Rite priests still do.
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