Get Rid of the Celibacy Requirement

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Mboo said:
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goout:
The fruitful call of marriage points beyond satisfaction of concupiscence or attainment of happiness. Those are both good things that result, and the love of marriage flows out of itself, each to the other in a salvific way, and to the rest of the world in a salvific way.
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What you call “the love of mariage” is what i call also concupiscence, because the joy of this love is natural, even those who do not have the Faith seek it and enjoy it.
it’s true that, marriage is an image of the union of Christ and the Church, but be an image of a divine mystery does not confer by this fact alone some excellence to those involved, otherwise the vine and branch would be in a very high state of excellence because they were chosen by Jesus to represent union with Christ and Christians. In the same way, polygamy would be a good thing because Jesus is presented himself in many biblical passages as a polygamous husband of our souls.
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Yes, marriage has natural qualities that even the most disconnected partners can experience in the most animal ways.
But the point of Christian marriage is that it is sacramental: it points to, and brings into effect, transcendental realities like imaging and participating in the Trinitarian life of God. If we want to see how God is, we should be able to look at marriage and receive a glimpse.

This is a fundamental human question: Who is God, how does God act, and what meaning and effect does God have in our world? Look at marriage to begin answering this question. In this fashion Saint JP2 calls marriage “the primordial sacrament”.

A Christian marriage is an elevated thing. A mere sexual union, no matter how good that union is, is not the same thing exactly.
 
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goout said:
But the point of Christian marriage is that it is sacramental :
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marriage is a divine institution, not a Christian institution. Even a marriage between two pagans who seek the three ends of marriage (procreation, unity, and faithfulness) is a sacramental marriage
 
Mboo said:
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goout:
But the point of Christian marriage is that it is sacramental :
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marriage is a divine institution, not a Christian institution. Even a marriage between two pagans who seek the three ends of marriage (procreation, unity, and faithfulness) is a sacramental marriage
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That’s not really accurate, but it’s not worth belaboring the fine point.
The larger point is that Christian marriage points to something bigger than itself as we talked about above. It is not a mere remedy for concupiscence or for the satisfaction of personal happiness. Marriage has a much larger beatific and salvific vision that that.
 
goout said:
If we want to see how God is, we should be able to look at marriage and receive a glimpse.
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it is an approach that corresponds to the natural love of God, and not to the love and supernatural knowledge of God.
In the natural love of God we project on God, the natural knowledge that we have human love. In the supernatural love of God (which is still called charity) we start from the supernatural knowledge we have of God to know how to love the neighbor
 
goout said:
Marriage has a much larger beatific and salvific vision that that.
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Ok, let’s admit. What is the state of life that does not allow these benefits of marriage?
You know when Jesus gave his teaching on marriage, this is what his disciples concluded:
“If this is the position entre a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” (Mt 19:10) and Jesus has not corrected them, quite the contrary …
 
Mboo said:
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goout:
If we want to see how God is, we should be able to look at marriage and receive a glimpse.
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it is an approach that corresponds to the natural love of God, and not to the love and supernatural knowledge of God.
In the natural love of God we project on God, the natural knowledge that we have human love. In the supernatural love of God (which is still called charity) we start from the supernatural knowledge we have of God to know how to love the neighbor
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Marriage is a sacrament.
A sacrament signifies and effects the mystery that it signifies.
Sacrament and mystery are related. Mystery is not something unknowable, rather it is something that we are called to know, and that mystery is ever deeper as we know it.

I’m really not sure what you’re trying to prove here.
 
goout said:
I’m really not sure what you’re trying to prove here.
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I am proving that the intrinsic excellence in chastity is to live as a single person even if you are married. This truth is no longer taught today.
 
Ivana said:
The abuse crisis is one of homosexual priests abusing physically sexually mature teenaged boys and young men. It is overwhelmingly NOT pedophilia; it is homosexual ephebophilia. Homosexuals aren’t supposed to be ordained in the first place, and if the Church had stuck with this rule, at least 80% of the abuse problems we hear about would never have happened. Read the John Jay Report.
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In some cases, yes. But there is no need to ban homosexuals from ordination as long as they do not abuse. Heterosexuals abuse children far more often than homosexuals. As on poster has pointed out, and given credible links to statistics, most cases of abuse occur in families, e,g., Jared Fogle, the Duggars, so banning homosexuals isn’t the answer.

The PA scandals are a CHILD ABUSE problem, not a homosexual problem.
 
goout said:
A sacrament signifies and effects the mystery that it signifies.
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Unlike other sacraments, marriage does not achieve what it signifies. That is to say, when two people get married, Christ does not unite specialy with the Church because of that.
 
Mboo said:
that’s not what I said. I said that celibacy (or sacred perpetual continence more generally) should be preferred to marriage because it is superior to marriage.
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Yes, I agree with that. Celibacy for the sake of Christ is superior to marriage. It’s a higher calling.
 
ConstantLearner said:
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Mboo:
that’s not what I said. I said that celibacy (or sacred perpetual continence more generally) should be preferred to marriage because it is superior to marriage.
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Yes, I agree with that. Celibacy for the sake of Christ is superior to marriage. It’s a higher calling.
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Check out Theology of the Body for St JP2’s thought on this. Google the terms with it. EWTN has the whole text.
 
Mboo said:
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goout:
I’m really not sure what you’re trying to prove here.
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I am proving that the intrinsic excellence in chastity is to live as a single person even if you are married. This truth is no longer taught today.
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I’m sorry but this is just not true. Chastity is the well integrated sexuality of a person, in the state of life that person is living.
Marriage is objectively not single person chastity.
 
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goout said:
Check out Theology of the Body for St JP2’s thought on this. Google the terms with it. EWTN has the whole text.
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Thank you, but ir was one of my courses at St. Joseph’s when I got my MA in theology.
 
Sorry, but even in the theology of the body, JPII reaffirmed the superiority of sacred continence over marriage
 
Mboo said:
Sorry, but even in the theology of the body, JPII reaffirmed the superiority of sacred continence over marriage
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You are dodging what I just said.
What you said about chastity is not correct.
 
it’s not me who says it. Here is the advice of St Paul that the catechism of the Council of Trent has taken over for him:
" From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none …" (1Cor 7:29).
I agree that nowadays the Church does not present the thing like this anymore, but it is engaged in an overvaluation of marriage, and this is done to the detriment of the truth about the excellence of continence.
 
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