Get the Kids Out - 0f public school

[Beautiful]

Do you really think the run of the mill parent is capable of evaluating a school?

Your average run of the mill parent is kinda’ like Joe the plumber: neither one is as stupid as you think.

I said that evaluating a school, and evaluating teachers, is more complicated than just “Teacher A” gives too much homework or “Administrator B” doesn’t let kids have bathroom breaks in between classes. It’s more complicated than looking at test scores.

It is more often than not, just a feeling and instinct. Feelings and instincts are very good. If I know that a school celebrates gay days and has more detention halls than study halls then I’m likely to get a feeling that I don’t want my kids learning there.

I didn’t say that a parent can’t decide how to educate their child, such as public versus private versus homeschooling. I meant that in the context of creating multiple school systems or charter schools or whatever it is you are advocating, parents with no formal training will be influencing educational decisions for children. Educators will be forced to do what is popular, to boost enrollment, instead of what is right.

I’m not sure what the overall answer is, but anarchy is not it.

No!!! Get government out of the education system. After all, who were Jesus’ primary educators when he was growing up? A carpenter and a housewife! Have times changed so greatly that hardworking mothers and fathers no longer know what is best for their children?

 

[Beautiful]

If my system, which is rather affluent, has trouble, I can’t imagine how others in other places are surviving. That said, I can’t see how fragmenting the public money can actually do any good.

It isn’t a matter of fragmenting money as much as giving more flexibility and freedom to parents to choose the best education process for their children.

 

[Sillara]

I never said that. I never said that parents don’t know how to raise their children.

I said that evaluating a school, and evaluating teachers, is more complicated than just “Teacher A” gives too much homework or “Administrator B” doesn’t let kids have bathroom breaks in between classes. It’s more complicated than looking at test scores.

Elected school boards decide policy. In the trenches, administrators, professional educators, work out the implementation details. You insult educators when you suppose that you can do their job with no training and no expertise.

As a former school-teacher (I used to teach in a Catholic junior high), I am confident that most parents could be trusted to evaluate a school. The purpose of a school SHOULD be to educate. If the students do not come out of the school knowing the subjects they were supposed to have been taught it is a BAD school.

 

[PaulinVA]

Your average run of the mill parent is kinda’ like Joe the plumber: neither one is as stupid as you think.

Not stupid. But not necessarily able to design a curriculum and run a school.

It is more often than not, just a feeling and instinct. Feelings and instincts are very good. If I know that a school celebrates gay days and has more detention halls than study halls then I’m likely to get a feeling that I don’t want my kids learning there.

In this brave new world of vouchers and schools starting and failing and the good ol’ free market economy, how do you provide continuity for your children? Are you going to switch their schools every year? If the school of your choice this year angers you, you’ll just rip them away from their friends and put them somewhere else? All based on feelings and instincts?

No!!! Get government out of the education system. After all, who were Jesus’ primary educators when he was growing up? A carpenter and a housewife! Have times changed so greatly that hardworking mothers and fathers no longer know what is best for their children?

Your question doesn’t make sense. Because Jesus lived in a time where there were no public schools, public schools are bad? Well, there weren’t any Catholic Churches, either.

And, quite frankly, yes, there is a large portion of the population that is not capable of making good, solid decisions for their children’s education. That’s why there are laws requiring children to attend school - because the parents aren’t forcing the kids to go to school.

In some areas, the high school drop out rate is 50% or higher. Do you want those people making decisions how the next generation is taught?

Well meaning should not be equated with good for society.

 

[PaulinVA]

It isn’t a matter of fragmenting money as much as giving more flexibility and freedom to parents to choose the best education process for their children.

But who provides these schools for you to send your little ones to? Who makes the capital investment, and why?

Fragmentation means that no one system or school will be able to serve everyone. Who would want to serve the handicapped?

Who are you people thinking will create all of these schools for you to send your kids to? And, what are their agendas?

 

[Sillara]

If it comes to it, I will do it myself. It is MY responsibility to make sure that MY children are educated properly, and I will teach them myself.

Actually, that is exactly what I am doing now. I am homeschooling my three oldest children. The youngest two are both under two years of age. The others will be starting school (early this year, because they are so excited; usually we start the school year in April, like the rest of the schools in our area) next week. They will be in 6th, 4th, and 2nd grades.

Sure, I would be willing to send them to school. It would be a LOT easier for me! But I will only do that if the school I send them to is able to educate properly. Otherwise, I will do it myself. If you want something done right, do it yourself, right?

 

[Cobbfmly]

The area I live in college prep private high schools, including Catholic high schools, run $12,000 - $15,000 per year. The private high schools that will take children with high functioning autism, Asperger’s Syndrome, etc who require more than basic accommodations (i.e. front of classroom and testing in quiet location) run $25,000 - $30,000 per year. Unless vouchers take into account special needs when determining $$ amount of voucher, few autistic children’s families will be able to afford to leave public school.

 

[mpi]

If it comes to it, I will do it myself. It is MY responsibility to make sure that MY children are educated properly, and I will teach them myself.

Actually, that is exactly what I am doing now. I am homeschooling my three oldest children. The youngest two are both under two years of age. The others will be starting school (early this year, because they are so excited; usually we start the school year in April, like the rest of the schools in our area) next week. They will be in 6th, 4th, and 2nd grades.

Sure, I would be willing to send them to school. It would be a LOT easier for me! But I will only do that if the school I send them to is able to educate properly. Otherwise, I will do it myself. If you want something done right, do it yourself, right?

I agree with everything you have said. Homeschooling is wonderful.

 

[Numinous]

If it comes to it, I will do it myself. It is MY responsibility to make sure that MY children are educated properly, and I will teach them myself.

Actually, that is exactly what I am doing now. I am homeschooling my three oldest children. The youngest two are both under two years of age. The others will be starting school (early this year, because they are so excited; usually we start the school year in April, like the rest of the schools in our area) next week. They will be in 6th, 4th, and 2nd grades.

Sure, I would be willing to send them to school. It would be a LOT easier for me! But I will only do that if the school I send them to is able to educate properly. Otherwise, I will do it myself. If you want something done right, do it yourself, right?

You are such a wonderful mother, and I love you soooooo much!!

 

[johnchen]

public school.
I like Catholic school.
But the Catholic school is disappeared when the communist party dominate Chinese mainland!

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Yesirree I do. Parents are the first teachers. I will pick parents over elitist educators any day.

Then teachers who don’t want to work in that environment should leave. ( let them get a job in the real world) Teaching students should be their first priority. Their boss is the parents.

 

[Lujack]

Yesirree I do. Parents are the first teachers. I will pick parents over elitist educators any day.

Then teachers who don’t want to work in that environment should leave. ( let them get a job in the real world) Teaching students should be their first priority. Their boss is the parents.

The boss is not the parents. Most parents have no idea what goes into running a school or formulating a curriculum, and half the time, refuse to consider that there are other kids in the classroom. I’ve heard of parents calling teachers at 9:30 at night at home, barging into classrooms during teacher’s prep periods, and demanding that they revise the curriculum to fit their needs. Its absurd; there is no respect for the profession of education anymore.

Parents are putting increased demand on teachers, who are expected to take less and less pay, and put up with more and more abuse.

 

[buffalo]

The boss is not the parents. Most parents have no idea what goes into running a school or formulating a curriculum, and half the time, refuse to consider that there are other kids in the classroom. I’ve heard of parents calling teachers at 9:30 at night at home, barging into classrooms during teacher’s prep periods, and demanding that they revise the curriculum to fit their needs. Its absurd; there is no respect for the profession of education anymore.

Parents are putting increased demand on teachers, who are expected to take less and less pay, and put up with more and more abuse.

Thanks for making my point.

You: Its absurd; there is no respect for the profession of education anymore.

I wonder why.

 

[Corki]

The boss is not the parents. **Most parents have no idea what goes into running a school or formulating a curriculum, **and half the time, refuse to consider that there are other kids in the classroom. I’ve heard of parents calling teachers at 9:30 at night at home, barging into classrooms during teacher’s prep periods, and demanding that they revise the curriculum to fit their needs. Its absurd; there is no respect for the profession of education anymore.

Parents are putting increased demand on teachers, who are expected to take less and less pay, and put up with more and more abuse.

Regarding the bolding above. Most parents do not, you are correct. I do. I have been in school administration. I have written curricula. Most parents have no idea of the amount of waste and paperwork their tax dollars are spent on. Most parents have no idea of the sneaky tricks teachers and adminstrators (not all, but enough) have used to get their personal biases into the curriculum or how much is hidden. Most parents do not know how much parents are ridiculed by the teachers and administrators.

But parents are starting to get wise. They are demanding accountability. And the teachers don’t like it.

BTW, where are you that teacher pay has been cut? Around here teachers get a COL and a seniority bump every single year. Whether teachers are underpaid is another debate but I haven’t seen any teachers earning less than before.

 

[Lujack]

Thanks for making my point.

You: Its absurd; there is no respect for the profession of education anymore.

I wonder why.

I know why; everybody thinks they can do everything. Nobody respects anybody else’s hard work. I’m sorry if I have a dim view of high school parents, but I’ve watched in horror as one of my friend’s fathers came storming down on the field after a football game to publicly berate our coach, and I’ve been told by my own father that that happens to almost every coach nowadays. I’ve seen parents come into the classroom and yell at teachers over two points on a test.

Teaching is a hard job, and all you hear is “Three months off! Lazy! Overpaid!” when I know how many of them are struggling to get by. Look at it from the other side for a second; teachers get abused like its nobody business.

 

[iluvmybabies]

Get the Kids Out!

I would say to you, dear friends, it may require some sacrifice, but I urge you to send your children to godly schools. If you send them off to some public school, keep in mind that you are shooting dice with your children’s eternal souls. It is a gamble that no Christian should be willing to make.

Don’t send an eight-year-old out to take on a forty-year-old humanist. I have never seen any people more unhappy than fathers or mothers who have come to me and said, “Where did we go wrong? We gave him everything, and now he’s turned his back completely on everything we believe.” Yes, they gave him everything but a Christian education.

Dr. D. James Kennedy (Training Your Children 396060)​

Well unfortunately I can’t afford to pay for the Catholic schools here in our small 90 thousand people city… There are 3 of them and every one charges 5 grand a year per child!! They might give you a 2 grand discount for each child but add that up it’s still quite a bit… I just can’t afford it. I have asked that maybe they help me with some scholarship, they have denied me and told me they do not have the monetary supplement to help me. BUT about 3 months after I applied, a friend of mine’s friend’s daughter went in with her 4 children and they all got accepted for free!!! What the difference was, I DUNNO but I am just trying to keep my children close to GOD as much as possible and trying to keep them happy!

 

[Lujack]

Regarding the bolding above. Most parents do not, you are correct. I do. I have been in school administration. I have written curricula. Most parents have no idea of the amount of waste and paperwork their tax dollars are spent on. Most parents have no idea of the sneaky tricks teachers and adminstrators (not all, but enough) have used to get their personal biases into the curriculum or how much is hidden. Most parents do not know how much parents are ridiculed by the teachers and administrators.

But parents are starting to get wise. They are demanding accountability. And the teachers don’t like it.

Teachers don’t like it because the people who’ll they’ll be accountable do are amateurs. They don’t like the idea of winding up like the basketball coach, who gets told how to do job his job by people who don’t know the first thing about it.

The proper way to evaluate teachers is to establish a review board, like the Middle States for private schools, that observes what’s going on and delivers individual recommendations, not to reduce everything to a test score.

BTW, where are you that teacher pay has been cut? Around here teachers get a COL and a seniority bump every single year. Whether teachers are underpaid is another debate but I haven’t seen any teachers earning less than before.

In terms of real wages, they are, and in New Jersey, they’re getting screwed out of their pension. The state borrowed against the pension, but only went deeper into debt. Over ten years, they accumulated a debt of some obscene amount of money against those pensions (because they kept holding it in reserve), and now the state is trying to eliminate the pensions, even though teachers have been spending like they’ll get the money for the past ten years. Somehow, though, the teachers are at fault.

 

[pnewton]

The boss is not the parents.

*This *is why I want parents to have a choice other than public school, regardless of their level of income; a choice that does not require them to pay for public school with tax money and then for a private school on top of that. Too many teachers do not want accountability to the poor, stupid parents, just because God has ordained the parents as guardians of the children. They prefer to remain unassailable in their ivory tower and not have to answer to ignorant parents.

 

[Shin]

The boss is the parents. It used to be parents sent their children to various individual teachers, who held classes in rooms they owned or rented out.

School systems developed, and so groups of teachers where were you sent your children – or still to individual teachers.

You hired or fired a teacher as you would, and you knew who he was, his personality, and his credentials.

Now, the state has taken power away from the parents to make choices about these things. This is an unauthorized use of its power that it does not have the authority to do.

Period.

 

[Corki]

In terms of real wages, they are, and in New Jersey, they’re getting screwed out of their pension. The state borrowed against the pension, but only went deeper into debt. Over ten years, they accumulated a debt of some obscene amount of money against those pensions (because they kept holding it in reserve), and now the state is trying to eliminate the pensions, even though teachers have been spending like they’ll get the money for the past ten years. Somehow, though, the teachers are at fault.

I lived in NJ for several years, moving luckily before my kids reached school age. I will concede NJ to you. Those teachers have been robbed for years by the NJExtortionAssociation. And now they are getting caughtup in the state’s incompetance too.

In Texas, where I live now, teacher increases have far exceeded the cost of living changes so while there is much to be critiqued about work environment, wages have always gone up both actual and “real”.