Get the Kids Out - 0f public school

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*This *is why I want parents to have a choice other than public school, regardless of their level of income; a choice that does not require them to pay for public school with tax money and then for a private school on top of that. Too many teachers do not want accountability to the poor, stupid parents, just because God has ordained the parents as guardians of the children. They prefer to remain unassailable in their ivory tower and not have to answer to ignorant parents.
Let me rephrase that: Teachers are not accountable to individual parents. They are accountable to the community as a whole, which is represented through the school board. Even private schools are accountable to the community as a whole, not to an individual parent.

I realize where my phrasing could have been insulting on that account.
 
The boss is the parents. It used to be parents sent their children to various individual teachers, who held classes in rooms they owned or rented out.

School systems developed, and so groups of teachers where were you sent your children – or still to individual teachers.

You hired or fired a teacher as you would, and you knew who he was, his personality, and his credentials.

Now, the state has taken power away from the parents to make choices about these things. This is an unauthorized use of its power that it does not have the authority to do.

Period.
Teachers cannot be accountable to individual parents. It simply isn’t feasible that Mrs. Smith can tell an American History teacher what he needs to tell his students about the Alamo, or a Calc teacher how she should be teaching calculus.
 
Let me rephrase that: Teachers are not accountable to individual parents.
FYI-Here what you called a prep period is called a conference period. It is the one time during the day the parents can, and are supposed to be able to reach the teacher to express concerns.
 
first of all it is not always possible to send your kids to a catholic school. in the usa several catholic schools are closing and they have no way of getting to another catholic school also several of my catholic friends are poor there is no way possible they can afford to send their kids to catholic school and support their church. where do they get the money its not cheap.
 
FYI-Here what you called a prep period is called a conference period. It is the one time during the day the parents can, and are supposed to be able to reach the teacher to express concerns.
Really…maybe the schools I went to were understaffed. The prep period at the schools I went to was literally that-a time to prep for the next class. My history teachers were vets and pretty much knew the material by heart (twenty-five years in schools and twenty years, respectively), but they still needed that period to make their copies and grade papers and such. My science teachers would have died if they weren’t guaranteed uninterrupted prep time, because that’s when they set up the labs. It was absolutely essential for them.

All my teachers were pretty amenable to setting up conference times or meeting at lunch (the whole school had lunch at once, which is a good thing, in my opinion), but the prep period was essential for them (three ninety-five minute classes per day, and one ninety-five minute block to set up for all of them).
 
Well unfortunately I can’t afford to pay for the Catholic schools here in our small 90 thousand people city… There are 3 of them and every one charges 5 grand a year per child!! They might give you a 2 grand discount for each child but add that up it’s still quite a bit… I just can’t afford it. I have asked that maybe they help me with some scholarship, they have denied me and told me they do not have the monetary supplement to help me. BUT about 3 months after I applied, a friend of mine’s friend’s daughter went in with her 4 children and they all got accepted for free!!! What the difference was, I DUNNO but I am just trying to keep my children close to GOD as much as possible and trying to keep them happy!
We have three children and were denied aid also when other parents with one child were given aid. I don’t know the difference either.

DH and I continue to argue about this, but I honestly think if you provide the values at home and provide Catholic religious education either through homeschooling or CCD, your kids will be just fine. That, and get involved in the PTA and/or community.

I can understand why a parent would not want to send their child to a public school where there are violent gangs and other issues. Those are the kids I really feel for, they are trapped in the public system.

Take a look at all the local schools - Catholic, public, private or consider homeschooling - talk to other parents (this is the huge mistake that I made; we didn’t do enough investigating before putting our kids in the parish school) and make the best decision for your family based on your child’s needs and finances. There are some great public schools. We live in a good district, and it’s not an affluent area. DHs family is one of those that has a “tradition” of sending the kids to Catholic school, whether its the best for the kid or not. He assumes that you have Christ in your life on a daily basis, but you also have to consider how “Catholic” the school really is. We have one in elementary and two in secondary now. The total bill is over $20,000. That is money that could go toward summer camp, tutoring, music lessons and other things that my family can’t afford. The elementary kids go to church together once a month. Religion class consists of talking about family traditions, handing out mite boxes and telling the kids to fill them up with loose change at home. No bible study, no Catholic dogma. Everything revolves around fundraising. The local public school is way ahead academically. There is no PTA, just a small group of moms that run the fundraisers. There is no school musical, no Honor Society, no advanced Math until 8th grade (public starts in 5th), Spanish in 7th (public starts in 5th) and the only clubs are band and intramural sports (which the public school also offers, along with an array of other clubs). There are also many kids who come “from money” and whose families have the attitude that they’re “better” because their kid goes to private school.

I would send my kid to public to save money unless the district was awful and/or the kid was miserable.
 
Get the Kids Out!

I would say to you, dear friends, it may require some sacrifice, but I urge you to send your children to godly schools. If you send them off to some public school, keep in mind that you are shooting dice with your children’s eternal souls. It is a gamble that no Christian should be willing to make.

Don’t send an eight-year-old out to take on a forty-year-old humanist. I have never seen any people more unhappy than fathers or mothers who have come to me and said, “Where did we go wrong? We gave him everything, and now he’s turned his back completely on everything we believe.” Yes, they gave him everything but a Christian education.

Dr. D. James Kennedy (Training Your Children 396060)​
I totally agree with this–but I wish the the Dioceses throughout our country would ALSO take heed and realize that public schools—I’m not slamming teachers–but the schools themselves, being governed by states that want to promote only secular views, with their “if it feels good, do it” approach to morality–are costing our faith many, MANY youth. Yet every which way I turn–the dioceses are pulling money from Catholic school funding, forcing good schools to close and tuition in the ones left continues to rise to cover the costs! Pretty soon, only the rich and only the elite will be able to attend Catholic schools. Right now, our diocese is spending money on a totally clueless “advancement” program with training provided by an individual who reminds me of every pushy sales man out there—this individual comes from a very wealthy section of our country and did absolutely no homework about our market. He’s pushing the idea that we can get more people to donate money to schools so that the diocese can get more money out of the parishes…um, you can’t get blood from a stone!!!

Catholic education should be as an affordable option as possible for EVERY family who wants it. And it should be promoted to CAtholic families as the gold standard in education–both in academics as well as values that mirror (or improve) those taught at home.

And we as Catholics should be reminding our elected officials that AS VOTERS, we want vouchers that allow us choices in education. I don’t want to hear squat either about this “well, other tax payers don’t want to have to pay for you to send your kids to Catholic schools.” Well, I don’t want to have to pay for abortions either–but look at FOCA.
 
The idea of vouchers isn’t selfish…it is freedom of choice!
SING IT SISTER!!! Absolutely agree. In NYS–schools are given money for each school age child that resides in the district—whether or not they attend that school, the school still gets that money. For our district, my two kids, who attend Catholic schools for which I not only pay–I have to drive them because they’re out of district, the public school district gets $10,000 per child! I pay less than $4000/year for both at our parish school. Imagine if we could be able to take that money and give it to the school they actually attend? Why, that would cover one teacher aide job! Instead, we have to worry about closures, teachers being asked to take pay cuts at the local Catholic high school to keep the doors open (think a public school, unionized teacher would do that??)

Instead–in NY, know what our govenor is proposing? Reducing what little state aid our schools do get for mandated services–but not touching any of what the publics get!

I could go on and on…
 
SING IT SISTER!!! Absolutely agree. In NYS–schools are given money for each school age child that resides in the district—whether or not they attend that school, the school still gets that money. For our district, my two kids, who attend Catholic schools for which I not only pay–I have to drive them because they’re out of district, the public school district gets $10,000 per child! I pay less than $4000/year for both at our parish school. Imagine if we could be able to take that money and give it to the school they actually attend? Why, that would cover one teacher aide job! Instead, we have to worry about closures, teachers being asked to take pay cuts at the local Catholic high school to keep the doors open (think a public school, unionized teacher would do that??)

Instead–in NY, know what our govenor is proposing? Reducing what little state aid our schools do get for mandated services–but not touching any of what the publics get!

I could go on and on…
Yes yes yes!! Vouchers are not selfish - they are FAIR!

I’m in California and our public “school” system is a thorough disgrace! Especially my local district! It’s INSANE! Academic scores are one of the lowest in the country. The schools are run by gangs and drugs. Sex is normal in the 6th grade. I can’t tell you how many kids have had kids, or have had abortions, by the time they’ve reached the 9th grade. It needs to stop, but how?

I am choosing Catholic school for our children. It’s either that or homeschool, because the only way my kids are going to the public schools here is over my dead body.

I really wish the voucher system would be made available to us. We are taxpayers and we pay school fees on top of that. Why not have MY money go for the education of MY children? Makes sense to me.
 
Most of the teachers in our public schools are evangelical Christians of the Baptist persuasion, just like Dr. Kennedy 🤷

Parents are obligated to teach kids the faith - heck, the Catholic grade schools I know of have 20 minutes of religion class each week. My public schooled son gets teaching at home PLUS an hour of CCD.
The teachers can be of any faith–but it’s the school districts that are trying very hard in some parts of the county–NY state for sure–to make being Christian–and definetely Catholic-- seem “intolerant”. That what Dr. Kennedy is getting at, I believe. I could prattle off example upon example of to what length some of these districts have gone to make it clear that Christianity has no place in public education—including bans on t-shirts with religious sayings, bans on crufix wearing, inability to celebrate CHRISTMAS parties–it’s called a “holiday party”–but we can celebrate Hanukkah or Kwanza, BIG Xs through chocolate crosses in Easter Candy sale books…

Let’s not go into having lesbians come to school to talk about why it’s OK to be gay…or Planned Parenthood setting up shop in middle schools…these are not rumors, this is the real deal.

And Catholic schools, at least from my experience, do much, much more to encourage faith formation than any CCD program I’m familiar with, and most certainly the very lacking one being run at our parish. It’s not just a one hour talk on religion–faith is incorporated in EVERYTHING—every subject, every activity.

Yes–as parents, faith education begins at home. But I’d like to send my children somewhere that reinforces it, rather than forces them to defend their faith–or worse, hide it!
 
Taking your own children out and leaving the others, instead of working for a good school for all is, in fact, selfish.

But, on a positive note, when you take your children out it lowers the pupil to water fountain ratio, which some people think is really important.
I’m sorry–but do you really think that people have ANY ability to change a public school system? When you have board of educations whose sole concern is keeping taxes lower, and teachers unions whose sole concern raising taxes in order to pay for higher salaries and gold standard benefits—seriously–Buffalo public schools are amongst THE WORST in the country–academically unsound. But teachers there can have a face lift or boob job for free as part of their health insurance package for which they have to contribute very little?

Add in families who don’t care, students who don’t want to try. Haven’t you heard that no child behind means that we won’t leave you behind–we’ll dumb down the system so that you all do poorly.

I’ve already covered in other posts how being Christian in some schools/districts/states gets billed as being “intolerant”. And if a school DOES decide to pray—whether it’s a formal benediction at a graduation or an informal group of football players before or after a game—just wait until the AC-friggin’-LU finds out because some athethist decides that it’s infringing on their “rights”.

Vouchers aren’t selfish–they give EVERY parent a choice. Keeping Catholic/private education tuition only is what’s selfish.
 
A partial answer:

Not the state, but rather I the parent will ensure that my money is spent wisely and my child gets a good education. I trust myself more with taking proper care of this than I trust the state.

If private schools will suck away the best teachers, so be it. If magnet schools within the public school system do it, all the better. Anything that creates competition, a real incentive for academic achievement, and exposes the corrupt nature of the present system, would be welcome. Hopefully it will also provide better opportunities and more recognition to teachers who excel in their profession.

The expansion of private schools will lower the price and give an opportunity to more poor kids for a good education. Same for magnet schools. More magnet schools with a competitive admission would provide more opportunities to poor children who take school seriously.
CAN I GET AN AMEN FOR BROTHER JOE??? Well said!👍
 
Give me a break - do you know who gets on a public school board? Pretty much the ones who just go along with the spending plan. We need more money to solve these problems. Teacher moral will go down if we don’t give them a raise. The kids can’t learn unless we build a bigger and newer palace. We need more highly paid administrators. It goes on and on.

And Catholic education does so much more with 1/4 the cost.
YUP!👍

And if we had vouchers–we could do even MORE.
 
Not being an elitist, most definitely!

We should not live in an oligarchy. We even allow everyone to vote for the highest office in the land! You do not know how frightening you statement is. Parents should have children, but since they lack the intelligence to raise them, let the State do it. Let us just reduce the masses to the level of cattle and breed so that we can train them.
👍
 
Public school is a waste of my tax money so I homeschool. I love to see hard times come to public schools. I love school closures. I love programs being cut. I really enjoy when the public school beast faces layoffs of employees. The more hard times that come to public schools the better. Parents should be responsible for their own children’s education. The government needs to stay out of my pocket.

If you think my attitude is unCatholic, then I think you need to think again.
 
So, if parents are barely keeping a roof over their head, you think they shouldn’t have access to free education for their children?

The reason public school was even thought of was because the US realized they needed an educated populace if the people were going to vote (and yes, this came before Catholic immigrants, so it wasn’t the, “let’s keep their fertility years down” case. Even Anglo-Saxon Protestant kids had to go to school until they were sixteen).

If I couldn’t go to public school, that would have been a huge problem when I was younger. I grew up in an expensive state, so just decent living conditions cost a bundle. Education costs even more.

Some public schools are bad. Some Catholic schools are bad. It all depends on how you work it and how much a community actually cares about the education of it’s citizens and future voters.
 
I posted to this thread earlier, but I think the subject was discussed enough and I’ll not be participating in the revival of the thread.

May God bless you all in the education of your children.
 
So, if parents are barely keeping a roof over their head, you think they shouldn’t have access to free education for their children?

The reason public school was even thought of was because the US realized they needed an educated populace if the people were going to vote (and yes, this came before Catholic immigrants, so it wasn’t the, “let’s keep their fertility years down” case. Even Anglo-Saxon Protestant kids had to go to school until they were sixteen).

If I couldn’t go to public school, that would have been a huge problem when I was younger. I grew up in an expensive state, so just decent living conditions cost a bundle. Education costs even more.

Some public schools are bad. Some Catholic schools are bad. It all depends on how you work it and how much a community actually cares about the education of it’s citizens and future voters.
Actually public schooling has always been founded and established historically to eradicate Catholicism and inculcate secular and Protestant values in children unable to go to Catholic schools. Whether overt or subversively, the devil is there in the details looking for souls.

Catholicism has always opposed schooling without Catholic moral values as fundamentally teaching instead the values of the world and its prince – Satan.

The is very basic – after revolutions, such as in France, destroying and taking over Catholic schooling – or in the USA, founded opposed to Catholic religion - where you can read about some of the history of anti-Catholic use of public schooling from the Catholic League.

Or you can read the quote from the pope I provided earlier. I think it bears restating actually. 🙂 Where Christ is denied, there reigns Hell instead.

Due to the devastated and weak Catholic teaching and culture today many people do not understand very fundamental and basic parts of Church history and teaching, especially when they’re tied to education and what is necessary there – because most people do not have a decent Catholic education, and even the actual Catholic schools have submitted to secular values and standards.

Every child’s education in Christian virtue is the most important and indispensable part of that child’s education. Math takes a back seat to God.

‘Obviously the need of this Christian instruction is accentuated by the decline of our times and morals. It is even more demanded by the existence of those public schools, lacking all religion, where everything holy is ridiculed and scorned. There both teachers’ lips and students’ ears are inclined to godlessness. We are referring to those schools which are unjustly called neutral or lay. In reality, they are nothing more than the stronghold of the powers of darkness.’

Pope St. Pius X, ‘Editae Saepe’
 
I think that’s ridiculous. While I don’t deny that public schools were originally Protestant, Protestant children still had to go and cut off their mid teen years of fertility as well. I think we do have a problem of thinking of every policy in American history in terms of anti-Catholicism. While I don’t deny that Protestants may have targeted Catholic children who’ve gone to their schools, causing the formation of the Catholic school system, the intent was for an educated populace, not to cause Catholicism to die out intellectually.

If you don’t teach your kids at home, it doesn’t matter where they go to school. And I think school is primarily for studying and would stand up against a teacher who said abstinence was stupid just as much as I would a teacher who told students of other faiths (in a public school) that they were going to hell. But I don’t think painting public schools with a broad brush and focusing on legalism really helps the cause of Christ. Last I check, He actually warned us against that:o
 
So, if parents are barely keeping a roof over their head, you think they shouldn’t have access to free education for their children?

If I couldn’t go to public school, that would have been a huge problem when I was younger. I grew up in an expensive state, so just decent living conditions cost a bundle. Education costs even more.

Some public schools are bad. Some Catholic schools are bad.
I think the proponents of school vouchers are not advocating the abolishment of public schools. They are pressing for school choice, and for an end to the unfair practice of the state collecting taxes for public education from such people who opted their children out of the public education system. As one poster here put it, the state should stay out of my pocket. Consider the case of Iluvmybabies: she tells that she cannot afford Catholic school for her children, because that would cost $4000 per child per year. But maybe she already pays this much or more in taxes that go to the public schools. The local public school probably collects $7000 per child or more from the state’s tax revenue, and provides a poorer education in return than the Catholic schools in the same area would provide for a lower cost of $4000 per child.

Essentially, the state robs a lot of people of their free choice, by taxing them against their will and giving their money to the public schools, when these people in fact would much rather send their money and their kids to the Catholic schools.

I’m not asking for any favors from the state. This is my money, I worked for it, and they should stop taking my money and giving it to the public school system against my will. Or, if they keep collecting my money, they should return it to me in the form of school vouchers, so that I can bring those vouchers to the school of my choice, where I freely chose to enroll my children. And if I choose to homeschool my children, let me keep my money - the state should not be in the business of confiscating my financial resources and giving them to the public schools into which I have chosen not to enroll my children.

I should add that I grew up in a Communist dictatorship and I’m especially sensitive to the arrogance of a state that encroaches on my freedoms and tells me what to do. If the state will call me nuts for this, I don’t mind. But I just don’t need them to run my life or to force my children into a public school system that’s more concerned with the homosexual and anti-Christian indoctrination of kids than with their academic performance.

My children, my responsibility, my choice. My money. The state must not mess with it.
 
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