Get your kids out of government schools

[PetraG]

If public education is abolished completely then the market will naturally bring prices down to a reasonable level. The reason Catholic school costs so much now is because there is no competition, and therefore they can charge whatever they want. If public education is abolished, then more private schools will open. They will be priced a little less high to entice people, and then the private schools that already existed will lower their prices even more to compete. This cycle will continue until the prices reach a reasonable level. This is why I am a Libertarian. The market will resolve any problem if we let it.

Competition is not going to lower the cost of education to free.
Most private schools I know already subsidize tuition as much as they can. Very few charge families for the full cost of educating a student; those that do are VERY expensive. In other words, a high number of private schools, especially Catholic schools, already keep tuition as low as they can. They are NOT turning a profit they can cut into, that is for sure! No, they do as much fund-raising as possible and everyone already benefits from that.
No, the market will not resolve any problem if we let it, except in the sense that all bleeding eventually stops.
The reason I’m not a Libertarian is that too often the party takes an Ayn Rand “every man for himself and the Devil take the hindmost” attitude.

 

[TULIPed]

Yes! Which is why our colleges and universities business programs are empty. It’s a crying shame. Nobody wants to get a business degree any more because of all the socialism taught in our public schools! Who will our capitalistic companies hire with all the socialists coming out of our colleges?

All the investment banks will close their doors for lack of employees. Such a shame to see all those Brooks Brothers suits go to waste. Silicon Valley is done for. No more Patagonia fleece. No more murses. No more nice looking casual suede lace-up boot looking shoes. Coffee shops? So over.

This is a sartorial and cultural disaster in the making.

 

[Peaceable]

Thank you so much for the important work you (and all the other public school teachers on this forum) do every day as public school teachers!!
You make our world (and our kids’ world) a better place!

 

[ChristMyLife]

know what the solution is, but telling someone in today’s economy to homeschool or spend money they don’t have on private school is absurd.

Amen brother, spot on.

 

[EricF]

My daughter teaches in public school. She has two other jobs to make ends meet. She would love to teach in a Catholic school, but as she is single and the only earner in her household, she would have to be homeless as Catholic schools only pay about two thirds what public schools do here.

 

[Gertabelle]

Yes! Which is why our colleges and universities business programs are empty. It’s a crying shame. Nobody wants to get a business degree any more because of all the socialism taught in our public schools! Who will our capitalistic companies hire with all the socialists coming out of our colleges?

All the investment banks will close their doors for lack of employees. Such a shame to see all those Brooks Brothers suits go to waste. Silicon Valley is done for. No more Patagonia fleece. No more murses. No more nice looking casual suede lace-up boot looking shoes. Coffee shops? So over.

This is a sartorial and cultural disaster in the making.

 

[PetraG]

We’ve got a huge problem with our public schools brainwashing our kids into favoring socialism over our largely Free Market system. And they do not teach true American history, and what a great country America is. Public schools are also teaching our kids all sorts of unacceptable oddball sexual things at very young ages.

National self-confidence is not the job of history teachers. Nations, like school children, do not improve if they are constantly praised, constantly told they are just naturally better than everyone else in history and constantly excused from making use of constructive criticism because hearing criticism might harm their fragile egos. No, children need to know that we as a nation have both accomplishments and failures. It is the truth, for one thing. Secondly, it is the only way they will learn the way the real world works and how easily and how far popular political opinion can drift away from reality.

The union movement came about because the free market system of the time allowed the owners of capital to abuse their leverage over the working classes. The ideal is that workers and employers treat each other fairly, the worker always giving an honest day’s work and the employer always giving an honest day’s wage, but that is not the way the free market works under the burden of the concupiscence of fallen human nature. That is why we need a government to put a check on the narrow self-interest of all those parties who contribute to and benefit from our free marketplace.

 

[Godfollower]

Public schools are currently brainwashing the kids into desiring socialism, and also corrupting their minds regarding sexual oddities at early ages. There should be other options for parents (most) who can’t afford private schools. School vouchers (which are opposed by Democrats) would be good.

Leaving aside the clearly incorrect premises of your position, let’s examine your proposal, shall we? If we made school vouchers available to everyone so they could choose private schools instead of public schools, then . . . .

• We would have to raise taxes to pay for the vouchers;
• All the private schools would be overwhelmed by the demand (assuming you to be correct about all the people out there screaming for private school options), so they’d have to raise tuition (basic economics, right — increased demand equals increased price?);
• To meet demand, the private schools would have to hire more teachers — and guess who’s best qualified for the position? That’s right: current teachers;
• To run the now-larger schools, the private schools would have to hire more administrators — and guess who’s best qualified for the position? That’s right: current administrators;
• To prevent waste of the massive amounts of tax dollars now flowing to private schools, we would have to have government oversight (can’t let just anyone open a school and take our tax money, right?), so we would have to adopt curriculum standards for what schools have to teach to qualify for vouchers — and guess what those standards would probably look like? That’s right: current curriculum standards.

In other words, adopting nationwide school-choice vouchers would lead to . . . (drum roll, please) . . . The very same thing we already have: a system of schools paid for by tax dollars using the same teachers and same administrators to teach the same subjects to the same kids.

Plus higher taxes to pay for the profits made by the private schools (because they wouldn’t all be Catholic schools, now, would they?).

 

[jeannetherese]

• We would have to raise taxes to pay for the vouchers;
• All the private schools would be overwhelmed by the demand (assuming you to be correct about all the people out there screaming for private school options), so they’d have to raise tuition (basic economics, right — increased demand equals increased price?);

There would not necessarily need to be a tax increase to fund this. Per pupil allocations to public schools might be redirected and, with students transferring, we might anticipate a decrease in the need for public school construction.
Depending on the level of student flight, salaried positions in public schools might decrease, through retirement or RIFs, also decreasing funding needs.
Your second point applies more, I would think, to a for profit situation in which increased demand with a static supply is expected to lead to price increases.
Many private schools are run as non-profits and strive to keep costs down. In addition, a shift in funding imputs from re-allocated tax dollars through vouchers, might be anticipated to enable parents who already have students in private schools to experience an increase in disposable income as the income previously directed to tuition is lessened by the ability to utilize vouchers.
This in turn, might enable more charitable activities directed towards a school or other recipient.

 

[jeannetherese]

• To meet demand, the private schools would have to hire more teachers — and guess who’s best qualified for the position? That’s right: current teachers;
• To run the now-larger schools, the private schools would have to hire more administrators — and guess who’s best qualified for the position? That’s right: current administrators;

In these cases, one might see increased demand encouraging citizens to move into education. Some teachers who have chosen to homeschool, might be inclined, now that vouchers are available making it easier for larger families to afford tuition, to move themselves and their families into these newly attractive opportunities.
We might also see colleges further developing educator programs especially to cater to those preferring to teach in the private sector.
It seems reasonable to anticipate some transitions if voucher opportunities become available.

 

[jeannetherese]

To prevent waste of the massive amounts of tax dollars now flowing to private schools, we would have to have government oversight (can’t let just anyone open a school and take our tax money, right?), so we would have to adopt curriculum standards for what schools have to teach to qualify for vouchers — and guess what those standards would probably look like? That’s right: current curriculum standards.

There is a fair amount of flexibility in how schools meet curriculum standards. Thus variation exists in both public and private schools at present. We might anticipate variations in methodologies, textbooks, and course offerings to continue.

 

[TheLittleLady]

One teacher went as far as to teach the children that Catholics practice “human sacrifice” as part of their beliefs, and distorting scripture about Abraham and Isaac as an example.

If you live in the US, I certainly hope this was reported as it violates Federal law (and likely your State laws as well).

 

[TheLittleLady]

Do you understand how public schools work?

You have State and local School Boards. Do you attend School Board meetings? Have you run for School Board? Do you know the name of your School Board representative?

What proof do you have?

 

[Godfollower]

One teacher went as far as to teach the children that Catholics practice “human sacrifice” as part of their beliefs, and distorting scripture about Abraham and Isaac as an example.

May we see a source for this, please? I mean, really?

 

[Gertabelle]

Godfollower:

• To meet demand, the private schools would have to hire more teachers — and guess who’s best qualified for the position? That’s right: current teachers;
• To run the now-larger schools, the private schools would have to hire more administrators — and guess who’s best qualified for the position? That’s right: current administrators;

In these cases, one might see increased demand encouraging citizens to move into education. Some teachers who have chosen to homeschool, might be inclined, now that vouchers are available making it easier for larger families to afford tuition, to move themselves and their families into these newly attractive opportunities.
We might also see colleges further developing educator programs especially to cater to those preferring to teach in the private sector.
It seems reasonable to anticipate some transitions if voucher opportunities become available.

I’m confused by what you’re saying here. Are you suggesting that future teachers would be flocking to the profession as an act of charity?

As a teacher in a low-income, lower-performing school district, let me assure you that what attracts (and keeps) the best and brightest teachers is higher pay. Our tiny district is surrounded by large districts that had much higher pay, until about 15 years ago when the “higher-ups” in the district figured out that they’d have to actually compete to get the best teachers.

We’re now comparable with our neighboring districts, thanks be to God, and our student performance on standardized tests is going way up.

Pay matters. Especially for those of us with families. If pay didn’t matter, I’d be working in a Catholic school.

And colleges train students to be teachers. Period. There is no difference in how to teach children in public schools versus how to teach children in private schools. Teaching children is what teachers learn, and what we continue learning throughout our careers.

 

[graciew]

Happy birthday,Gertie!

 

[abucs]

For me there are two main issues.

One is the dedication and professionalism of teachers in all sectors. I can also attest to the hard working teachers in the public sector. I was previously employed as a public school teacher in Australia and currently am working in a volunteer position at a Philippine public school.

The second issue though is the forced ethics that is at the base of public education and here I am sympathetic to the article.

Whether public schools vigorously pursue a secular ethics or whether (for the moment) it is simply a background guideline for school organization it is creating a more secular student body and as the article says more dedicated Progressives which I think is just a euphemism for someone who has converted to the secular religion enforced by secular law and government.

It teaches implicitly a belief system that ideas of God are divisive and an outdated primitive attempt at creating communities and that Godless man centred secular attempts are more modern and produce better and fairer outcomes.

 

[jeannetherese]

I’m confused by what you’re saying here. Are you suggesting that future teachers would be flocking to the profession as an act of charity?

As a teacher in a low-income, lower-performing school district, let me assure you that what attracts (and keeps) the best and brightest teachers is higher pay. Our tiny district is surrounded by large districts that had much higher pay, until about 15 years ago when the “higher-ups” in the district figured out that they’d have to actually compete to get the best teachers.

We’re now comparable with our neighboring districts, thanks be to God, and our student performance on standardized tests is going way up.

Pay matters. Especially for those of us with families. If pay didn’t matter, I’d be working in a Catholic school.

And colleges train students to be teachers. Period. There is no difference in how to teach children in public schools versus how to teach children in private schools. Teaching children is what teachers learn, and what we continue learning throughout our careers.

Happy Birthday Gertabelle!
I apologize for the confusion; I did not anticipate teachers entering the field as an act of charity. Rather, I anticipated any increased demand for teachers in the private sector, coupled with vouchers which would shift tax dollars towards private institutions, to facilitate the entry into education of people who would be able to now afford to send their children to these schools. We might also anticipate parents with teaching certificates who have chosen to home-school as they could not afford private school tuition, entering the labor market now that they could afford to send their children to Catholic schools.
Catholic (or other private schools) with an infusion of voucher money, might be able to offer stronger salary and benefit programs which would also attract strong teachers.
I agree that teacher ed programs are designed to educate teachers-In a sense, they are a factory system and teachers are their product. Just as they create Pre-k -3rd cert teachers and elementary teachers and ESL teachers, and specializations in various subject areas, I can imagine the development of specializations tailored to the interests of particular niche markets in the private sector: classical education, curriculum development with a focus upon Christian themes and values. If ed programs see a profit in developing new areas of specialization they will do so.
In the same way that you might take a course in the history of Jazz or a music theory or a technique for helping students sight read, continuing education classes for teachers might also be developed to address Christian themes in literature, or to orient teachers to helping students explore virtue through reading, writing and drama.
I would anticipate this to be market driven, rather than stemming from charity. Vouchers might help to develop this market.

 

[Gertabelle]

Thanks for explaining your thinking.

It’d be wonderful if more people would express an interest in education. We’re suffering through a shortage of quality teachers in the Denver-metro area, and the kids are absolutely on the losing end.

There are already continuing education courses like you describe. Current teachers are required to earn to a certain number of credits in order to renew their professional licenses. The courses you describe sound very much like some that I have seen offered over the years.

But I seriously doubt they would be added as “optional” in actual teacher prep programs. There are already so many courses required to get one’s teaching license, as a student has to complete both their major AND their educations courses, as well as complete hours and hours of observation and then a full semester of student teaching. There just isn’t time to add “extras” into the programs.