Getting Away from the Kids?!

[maryjk]

It just seems marriages lasted longer before all the “date nights” of recent generations. I guess I’d like to see examples that I wouldn’t find in a secular source when I’m reading a Catholic publication.

It is odd that the breastfeeding relationship gets disregarded so easily (separation would be hard on me, not just our boys), and that the feelings of kids (who often don’t get enough time with the working spouse(s) as it is…I know my dh would love more time with all of us together) are seen as unimportant.

We’ve been married just over 20 years.

We had “date night.” Our son would go spend time with Grandma and Grandpa (my parents) or they would come to our house and stay with our son.

It was great. Kiddo had a great time. And so did we. Sometimes it was just a picnic lunch because we couldn’t afford to do anything else. Sometimes we splurged and went to a movie.

Our son loved it. He loved spending time with my parents. He loved their house and the special meals they had for him. He enjoyed the movies they had, that their backyard was different from ours.

I guess we didn’t do it when he was really young. But I don’t see how going out for an hour is disregarding the breastfeeding relationship.

I also remember my parents having a babysitter so they could go out. My parents were married in 1963. And were married for 47 years. But maybe they are too recent of a generation to be counted.

 

[Rico_S]

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It is odd that the breastfeeding relationship gets disregarded so easily .

Just b/c one person doesn’t place the same importance on it as you does not mean it gets easily disregarded.

 

[EasterJoy]

Just b/c one person doesn’t place the same importance on it as you does not mean it gets easily disregarded.

Yes, some of us could not do it, to the point that the breast-feeding nurse told us to give up.

 

[Xantippe]

“And I don’t think your observation about “marriages lasting longer before date night” is accurate. In fact, in the 40s and 50s, it was very common for even middle class families to have live-in help and prioritize the adults needs over those of the children. The “never leave your child for any reason, you must never be apart” idea seems like a very modern manifestation of the extreme AP fad.”

I’d add that clubs and grown-up friendships were a bigger deal 50 and 60 years ago than they are today. We are much more child-centered and nuclear-family centered today. (See, for example Putnam’s book Bowling Alone, which is about the decay of community organizations since the 50s and 60s.)

Now that we have three children, just having lunch with my husband and the baby while the big kids are at school is a big deal. We used to hire sitters when the two oldest were small, but doing lunch during the school day is a less expensive approach. A small, not very mobile baby can be a very patient, pleasant lunch companion. A walk is nice, too.

My baby is 8-months old. I just nipped out this afternoon without her while she was napping at home with her dad in charge to get an ice tea and a supply of bagels from the bakery and I was feeling rather uneasy about it. It was fine, but I hurried back faster than I would have if I’d had her with me. It is very natural for the two of us to stick together during her waking hours, with her breastfeeding every 2-3 hours. That said, she sleeps in a crib 8-10 hours a night, so it’s not 24/7.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I’d add that clubs and grown-up friendships were a bigger deal 50 and 60 years ago than they are today. We are much more child-centered and nuclear-family centered today. (See, for example Putnam’s book Bowling Alone, which is about the decay of community organizations since the 50s and 60s.)

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I don’t have any statistics on this but I suspect the reason people don’t have as many friendships is because we are expected to work longer hours so most people give up friendships in order to still have family time.

Also, when I work a long day, I need my evenings to do laundry and groceries and other such chores. When I was a kid and my dad worked all day he came home to a clean house because my mom stayed at home. With two people working something has to give and usually it is friends

 

[Kelfa28]

Just b/c one person doesn’t place the same importance on it as you does not mean it gets easily disregarded.

Tell me about it.

As much as I would have loved to EBF…it just wasn’t in the cards for us with this particular baby.

The nursing staff was frankly…little help for us.

She’s a healthy and well-cared for baby regardless of my EBFing her or not. I hardly think I disregarded my relationship with my daughter because I didn’t actually nurse her. I pumped for her instead. That was way harder.

 

[TraderTif]

What are couples supposed to do when they -need- outside help, and “alone time”?? We just had our first baby in April, and we’ve recently had medical professionals URGE us to get in outside help and spend some extra time alone together without the kid, simply because of the effects of all this stress on our health problems.

(And this is with the fact that we’ve had a marvelous doula/babysitter with us through the whole childbirth and postpartum experience, who watches the kid for a couple hours, a couple times a week already.)

Never leave the child?? How are we supposed to, say, go to our weekly counseling sessions? (I have sometimes brought the kid, when we had no alternative, but nobody enjoys it, and we don’t get nearly as much accomplished during those sessions.) I hardly think it’s terrible for the kid to spend 3 hours at home, in a familiar environment, with a familiar caregiver, rather then getting dragged to a medical appointment, where she tends to fuss and get thrown off her schedule, and everyone gets frustrated and exhausted.

(Not that the kid never gets out - we take her places with us several times a week.)

In previous generations, families had help and support in their extended family and greater community. Now we’re somehow expected to do it all on our own.

 

[Joannm]

My parents went on a date night every Friday when my siblings and I were growing up. I think that contributed to their over 60 years of marriage. My husband and I never went out and we had all sorts of marital problems over the years. We are still married but it’s not easy.

When I was young I loved having grandma or even our regular babysitter watch us (I was even Jr bridesmaid at her wedding) and I don’t remember ever being traumatized by my parents going on date nights.

 

[ExGratia]

And I don’t think your observation about “marriages lasting longer before date night” is accurate. In fact, in the 40s and 50s, it was very common for even middle class families to have live-in help and prioritize the adults needs over those of the children. The “never leave your child for any reason, you must never be apart” idea seems like a very modern manifestation of the extreme AP fad.

I had to laugh when I read about the help. My ancestors were more likely to have been the help than had help!

My point wasn’t to never leave your child…I only mentioned the first few years of life! Of course children should get to “go on adventures” as they are growing up.

My point was that it would be nice to see other points of view when reading a Catholic publication…NFP let alone EBF wasn’t mentioned.

There is a season for everything and right now, for us, it involves EBF and my husband working crazy hours. Yes, it is hard to be home with babies all day and it is hard for my husband to work rotating shifts (sometimes for 21 days in a row, and then 1 day off).

We have a great marriage and dh is my best friend. We are parents of 5 month old twin boys and love spending time together. We won’t need date night in order to make more babies, I assure you…in fact, since time is a premium, we probably “practice” more than many people!

I guess I just would love to see us represented. To know that EBF is a good choice for all involved, as is natural parenting. Our marriage is the most important thing, and I don’t think that I’ll wake up one day in a bad marriage because we don’t have scripted date nights.

Side note: sometimes I feel we are the only working class family on CA

Side note: our mothers are not ready to be left for an hour or 2 with twins (whoever said an hour could work for a date clearly has a very fast service restaurant next door) They help out with shopping, laundry and playing while I get some cleaning done!

Maybe some reassurance would be nice. We’re clearly not going to get it in the secular arena.

 

[EasterJoy]

I had to laugh when I read about the help. My ancestors were more likely to have been the help than had help!

My point wasn’t to never leave your child…I only mentioned the first few years of life! Of course children should get to “go on adventures” as they are growing up.

My point was that it would be nice to see other points of view when reading a Catholic publication…NFP let alone EBF wasn’t mentioned.

There is a season for everything and right now, for us, it involves EBF and my husband working crazy hours. Yes, it is hard to be home with babies all day and it is hard for my husband to work rotating shifts (sometimes for 21 days in a row, and then 1 day off).

We have a great marriage and dh is my best friend. We are parents of 5 month old twin boys and love spending time together. We won’t need date night in order to make more babies, I assure you…in fact, since time is a premium, we probably “practice” more than many people!

I guess I just would love to see us represented. To know that EBF is a good choice for all involved, as is natural parenting. Our marriage is the most important thing, and I don’t think that I’ll wake up one day in a bad marriage because we don’t have scripted date nights.

Side note: sometimes I feel we are the only working class family on CA

Side note: our mothers are not ready to be left for an hour or 2 with twins (whoever said an hour could work for a date clearly has a very fast service restaurant next door) They help out with shopping, laundry and playing while I get some cleaning done!

Maybe some reassurance would be nice. We’re clearly not going to get it in the secular arena.

When you have eight, ten, and twelve children, somebody is always in their first years of life!

You don’t have to have scripted date nights, but you need time where you are paying attention to each other first. The truth is, the divorce rate is higher among the parents of young twins. Having said that, you do what you have to in order to keep the fed and taken care of. The problem is when the kids needs are artificially made into what they’re not. If your mothers would sit with the twins together, that would be a good thing.

The other possibility is to contact your local twins club and trade time with other twins parents. We didn’t do that, but I have heard of couples who did…when they’re just a bit older.

 

[ringil]

My wife and I work hard to care for our two children (10 wks. and 4 years). My wife makes the bulk of the money for the family and I do some contract work that brings in a bit.

I love any chance to get away from the kids both individually and as a couple- in fact- I NEED it to be a good parent.

It’s about balance.

 

[Cat]

Married 34 years, raised two beautiful daughters who are on their own (one married, one single).

I think the most important thing that parents can do to raise their children well is to show by their actions their love for each other.

A home should not be a “children factory” where everything is centered around the children. A home should nurture ALL who live in that home.

I think that adults need a break from children. It’s hard, demanding work, mentally and physically, to raise children, and there are few who have the stamina to do it day in and day out for years without any break.

I agree with those who said that in the past, many families had help from either relatives or live-in-help to raise their children. If you read the Little House series, in the book Farmer Boy (the least-read of the series, but one of the best!), you will see that Mother and Father left the children at home for a week by themselves so that they could “take a vacation.” That’s exactly what they called it–a vacation. So parents taking a break from child-rearing is not a modern innovation at all!

Every summer from the time we were small, my brother and I went to stay at Grandma and Grandpa’s farm for two weeks. These are precious memories to me. My parents were married for many many years, until my mother died, and my dad refused to date after she died because he believed that marriage was permanent.

My husband tells me that things were the same in his family–he spent two weeks with one set of grandparents and two weeks at the other set of grandparents. (He was an only child until he was 10.) His parents are still married after over 50 years.

Many of the children that I grew up with routinely went to summer camp, some for the ENTIRE summer!

Now I realize that the OP is talking about tiny children and babies more than school-children. I agree that it’s probably not a good plan to spend weeks away from these little ones, especially babies, and especially if breastfeeding. But an hour or so each day for Mom is a blessing, and will actually HELP Mom to be a better mother by allowing her to relax her mind and body for a little while. A few hours for Mom and Dad is a blessing, and will help both Mom and Dad to be better parents. And once children are weaned, an overnight once in a while is a blessing (it helps Mom and Dad have time to re-connect with each other and possibly make more babies!)

 

[JackieMom]

I am an IBCLC who exclusively breastfed four babies and has another one on the way. None of my kids ever had a drop of formula or even a bottle of expressed milk. I seriously have no idea where you get the idea that moms who nurse can’t go out for a few hours.

You are very new to parenting. Give this some time. The reason you are not seeing “the other perspective” is because the vast majority of people would not find it reasonable or healthy. This is not a working class vs upper class issue. My mom and MIL are happy to babysit for free, and my husband and I often just run out for pizza and beer or a burger on our evenings out. Sometimes just frozen yogurt

 

[EasterJoy]

I had to laugh when I read about the help. My ancestors were more likely to have been the help than had help!..

Only a half century ago, older children and older cousins or as-yet unmarried siblings watched the younger ones. Adults did go out to event to which the children were not invited. Sure, nursing mothers were tied down, but children had both so much more freedom and so much more responsibility over their siblings and younger cousins, and so much earlier. My mother used to marvel at the amount of time her daughters-in-law spent taking their children to events and how much less her grandkids got to do on their own than her children did.

We should not falsely imagine that there were many mothers who willingly tied themselves to their children at all times when they had the option of time alone with their husband and other adults. Just because some great-grandmother had to do that does not mean she would think one of us insane for choosing to be with our children 24/7 when there was an option to do otherwise!

 

[newlywed8]

You know ExGratia, I can understand where you are coming from. My daughter is a year and a half and when she was only 5 months, I definitely had no inclination to ‘leave her’ or go out and have date nights. Now, a little over a year later, I see the value in it.

My family is definitely working class. My husband works long hours at a physical job. I stay home and freelance and quite often feel like a sole caregiver. I am on call 24/7 and do 99.9% of the childcare (all baths, meals, middle of the nights, and regular supervising), I also exclusively breastfed until like 10 months (she had no interest in solids until then - we did baby led weaning and she is now a fantastic eater) and am actually still breastfeeding, which sounds like it is similar to what you are doing. Around a year, however, I started to feel comfortable leaving her for twenty minutes here and there.

Now that we are on our second pregnancy there are several times when my daughter gets left with my mother. For example, I was not going to drag her to my hour long glucose test. I also had my first outing with friends sans child a few weeks ago. I was only gone maybe 3 hours, but it was a major shock. The thing is, even though my daughter is still so young, she loves spending time with Grandma. She is at my home and in a familiar environment and has a great time. When I get home, she still runs over and gives me a hug and shows me what game they were playing. My husband and I make sure we spend quality time together when we can in the evenings after she is in bed.

What I would recommend, as one new mom to another, is that at this age it is normal to not want to leave the children just yet. It sounds like your husband understands your feelings and supports them, and that is perfect, mine did, too. At the same time, especially as the boys get closer to a year and beyond, when they do start to naturally become more independent is to remember that the most important gift you can give your children is a strong marriage. I had a priest say once a long time ago is that children grow up and they will leave. From the time they are born, our job as parents is to prepare them to leave us. That means they should not think the world revolves around them. Also, when all your children are grown up and gone, you do not want to look across the room and realize you now live with a stranger. If you continue to have kids every 2-3 years, you could be waiting 15+ years before you have no child below the age three to spend alone time with your husband. Especially for just a few hours out, when the kids eat solids they can be left with Grandma while Mom and Dad go out for a sandwich.

 

[ExGratia]

You know ExGratia, I can understand where you are coming from. My daughter is a year and a half and when she was only 5 months, I definitely had no inclination to ‘leave her’ or go out and have date nights. Now, a little over a year later, I see the value in it.

My family is definitely working class. My husband works long hours at a physical job. I stay home and freelance and quite often feel like a sole caregiver. I am on call 24/7 and do 99.9% of the childcare (all baths, meals, middle of the nights, and regular supervising), I also exclusively breastfed until like 10 months (she had no interest in solids until then - we did baby led weaning and she is now a fantastic eater) and am actually still breastfeeding, which sounds like it is similar to what you are doing. Around a year, however, I started to feel comfortable leaving her for twenty minutes here and there.

Now that we are on our second pregnancy there are several times when my daughter gets left with my mother. For example, I was not going to drag her to my hour long glucose test. I also had my first outing with friends sans child a few weeks ago. I was only gone maybe 3 hours, but it was a major shock. The thing is, even though my daughter is still so young, she loves spending time with Grandma. She is at my home and in a familiar environment and has a great time. When I get home, she still runs over and gives me a hug and shows me what game they were playing. My husband and I make sure we spend quality time together when we can in the evenings after she is in bed.

What I would recommend, as one new mom to another, is that at this age it is normal to not want to leave the children just yet. It sounds like your husband understands your feelings and supports them, and that is perfect, mine did, too. At the same time, especially as the boys get closer to a year and beyond, when they do start to naturally become more independent is to remember that the most important gift you can give your children is a strong marriage. I had a priest say once a long time ago is that children grow up and they will leave. From the time they are born, our job as parents is to prepare them to leave us. That means they should not think the world revolves around them. Also, when all your children are grown up and gone, you do not want to look across the room and realize you now live with a stranger. If you continue to have kids every 2-3 years, you could be waiting 15+ years before you have no child below the age three to spend alone time with your husband. Especially for just a few hours out, when the kids eat solids they can be left with Grandma while Mom and Dad go out for a sandwich.

Thank you for your kind, understanding post! The few times I’ve gone out (dentist and eye doctor) have been awful. As in, my mom in a panic, calling me during the appointment to see when I’d finish! And MIL has offered to babysit so I can “go out with a girlfriend” …as long as my mom is there to help! My girlfriends like my babies! And the two grandmas babysitting would leave me without someone to do practical things the next week, since they’d have already done all that work.

The twins were a surprise (yes, that can happen in this day) and I am so thankful for them. They certainly won’t have the opportunity to think the world revolves around them…an impossibility when there are 2 babies and 1 mommy. They are learning to share quite young! And adjusting to everything may take longer with twins!

I have to comment on the people who keep saying date night is how siblings are made: no, no, no! They are not made when mommy has to rush home and feed babies! Although my fertility has not returned, we get plenty of “practice” for when it does. That’s what baby swings were made for, after all!

I am going to look for a “mother’s helper” soon…and she may become someone I trust so that dh and I can go out. But I’m not in a rush.

Anyway, the above poster makes me feel a little more normal and I appreciate that. That hasn’t happened since 8 minutes after baby 1 was born and the placenta I was supposed to deliver turned out to be another baby boy!

 

[sdeco]

It really depends on the ages of the kids. When my kids are still nursing, I don’t want to leave them for very long. But at that age, you can take them with you almost everywhere you go.

My husband and I have a weekly “date night” where we have dinner with just the two of us at home after the kids have gone to bed and talk. That’s always an option if going out is too expensive or you don’t want to leave the kids. I completely agree that parents need time with just the two of them, but leaving the kids isn’t always necessary to do that.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with vacations without the kids, as long as the kids are old enough and are with caregivers that they know. We have gone on two week-long vacations with just the two of us. When we went on the first, we had one child who was four, and when we went on the second, our kids were 7 and 2 1/2. Both times they were no longer nursing and they stayed with grandparents. We have both sets of grandparents nearby and they see them all the time, so they were not scared to stay with them. I know we are very lucky to have that.

 

[JackieMom]

Thank you for your kind, understanding post! The few times I’ve gone out (dentist and eye doctor) have been awful. As in, my mom in a panic, calling me during the appointment to see when I’d finish! And MIL has offered to babysit so I can “go out with a girlfriend” …as long as my mom is there to help! My girlfriends like my babies! And the two grandmas babysitting would leave me without someone to do practical things the next week, since they’d have already done all that work.

The twins were a surprise (yes, that can happen in this day) and I am so thankful for them. They certainly won’t have the opportunity to think the world revolves around them…an impossibility when there are 2 babies and 1 mommy. They are learning to share quite young! And adjusting to everything may take longer with twins!

I have to comment on the people who keep saying date night is how siblings are made: no, no, no! They are not made when mommy has to rush home and feed babies! Although my fertility has not returned, we get plenty of “practice” for when it does. That’s what baby swings were made for, after all!

I am going to look for a “mother’s helper” soon…and she may become someone I trust so that dh and I can go out. But I’m not in a rush.

Anyway, the above poster makes me feel a little more normal and I appreciate that. That hasn’t happened since 8 minutes after baby 1 was born and the placenta I was supposed to deliver turned out to be another baby boy!

I think that’s great if that’s what’s working for your family right now. I just didn’t understand all the tangents about people not prioritizing breastfeeding, or getting divorced being somehow related to date nights, or the implication that leaving kids for a few hours was selfish or anti-family. As you will find as you continue your parenting journey, what works great for one family might not work at all for another, and what works for you now may not work in 6 months or with your next child. I remember being a first-time mom and wondering how on Earth mothers made choices different than I made (because obviously If they cared about their baby like I did, they’d make the same choices!) I’ve had to eat crow a hundred and fifty times over the last 12 years!

 

[ExGratia]

I think that’s great if that’s what’s working for your family right now. I just didn’t understand all the tangents about people not prioritizing breastfeeding, or getting divorced being somehow related to date nights, or the implication that leaving kids for a few hours was selfish or anti-family. As you will find as you continue your parenting journey, what works great for one family might not work at all for another, and what works for you now may not work in 6 months or with your next child. I remember being a first-time mom and wondering how on Earth mothers made choices different than I made (because obviously If they cared about their baby like I did, they’d make the same choices!) I’ve had to eat crow a hundred and fifty times over the last 12 years!

The point was that an article that only pushes one view point (I. e. that date night is so important and that didn’t even mention that it may not be the best choice depending on the age of children) alienates at least this member of the audience. No suggestions were made for those who have very young babies or who feed on demand.

Incidentally, husband and I never really dated but we have had A LOT of adventures…real life, non-repeatable events. Beats a predictable dinner and a movie any day!

 

[PatriceA]

The point was that an article that only pushes one view point (I. e. that date night is so important and that didn’t even mention that it may not be the best choice depending on the age of children) alienates at least this member of the audience. No suggestions were made for those who have very young babies or who feed on demand.

Incidentally, husband and I never really dated but we have had A LOT of adventures…real life, non-repeatable events. Beats a predictable dinner and a movie any day!

Do you have an actual link to the article, so that we can all read it and maybe see what you are seeing OR perhaps see an entirely different point of view?