getting baptised again

[Harmony1988]

You know, Mizer, I tried very hard to be respectful to you.

If this is the way you’re going to be, then it’s probably best that I just ignore you.

Don’t think I didn’t spot that, you called him a fool first and then you removed it. I came back here in light of what you just said to me about my personal attacks in your last post in the other sub-forum.

Hypocrite.

And I am sure this was the right post, because I saw this today, and it was posted at 11:20 and then edited at 11:31. Since you were responding to me quite vigorously inbetween those posts, you did NOT spend 11 minutes writing those 3 - 4 lines.

You are a hypocrite.

 

[MIZER]

mercygate posted:

You weren’t “off” in thinking that one baptism means “do this only once.” It is (like everything else in Catholic theology) that there is more to it than that. The “do it only once” part is the practical end point of what we believe in full understanding of the Sacrament.

I see. I knew we should only do baptism once. You have a very succinct way of explaining why, in the context of the verse I was using to prove it. Thanks.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

Aren’t you obligated as a christian to set me straight if I am in error and openly seeking answers?

Yes. However, Jesus’ command not to throw pearls before swine and the admonition of Proverbs not to argue with fools supercede that obligation.

Don’t you, as a Minister of God, care about my fallen immortal Catholic soul?

Yes. I do. That’s why I tried so hard to talk to you here and in other threads and was respectful to you, even in the face of your constant personal attacks.

No, I will heed Christ’s command to shake the dust off my feet.

I really expected that a Pastor would have more staying power. How disappointing.

And I was really expecting the Catholics here to behave in a Christlike manner.

 

[Pastor_Jim]

Don’t think I didn’t spot that, you called him a fool first and then you removed it. I came back here in light of what you just said to me about my personal attacks in your last post in the other sub-forum.

Hypocrite.

You’re absolutely right. I did quote the verse that calls people like Mizer fools. If quoting God’s word makes me a hypocrite, then I’d rather be a hypocrite in your eyes for standing on God’s word than to be in your shoes.

 

[Harmony1988]

Yes. I do. That’s why I tried so hard to talk to you here and in other threads and was respectful to you, **even in the face of your constant personal attacks. **

Followed by your own

which you conveniently removed 11 minutes later.

 

[Harmony1988]

You’re absolutely right. I did quote the verse that calls people like Mizer fools. If quoting God’s word makes me a hypocrite, then I’d rather be a hypocrite in your eyes for standing on God’s word than to be in your shoes.

It never occured to you that we think you’re a fool too?

I take this same position in regards to you:

If quoting God’s word makes me a hypocrite, then I’d rather be a hypocrite in your eyes for standing on God’s word than to be in your shoes.

You have a very strange way of looking at things, do not be fooled into thinking that none of us think of you the same as what you think of us. You aren’t God.

 

[MIZER]

Harmony,

This is really funny

Don’t think I didn’t spot that, you called him a fool first and then you removed it.

because I was going to add that one of the ways non-catholics, baptists in particular, will beg out of a conversation to which they no longer have anything viable to contribute is they will resort to using the verse about not arguing with a fool, insulting me in the process.

I thought better of adding that but now I wish I had. As you can see, in the interim of our typing, in the moment, the Pastor went ahead and included it in his next post to me. How predictable is that?

 

[Pastor_Jim]

Followed by your own

which you conveniently removed 11 minutes later.

I’m sorry that you feel that scripture is a personal attack against you.

It never occured to you that we think you’re a fool too?

Oh, believe me, you’ve made your contempt for me well known. However, I didn’t say that it’s my personal opinion that you’re a fool. I cited a passage of scripture that says that doing what you’ve done here is a sign of being a fool.

Once again, it’s your opinion vs God’s word.

You have a very strange way of looking at things, do not be fooled into thinking that none of us think of you the same as what you think of us.

Like I said, you’ve all made your contempt for me very clear. The funny thing is that even several of your own fellow Catholics have pointed out your behavior toward me and have asked you to stop on my behalf.

You aren’t God.

And neither is your pope.

Hello? I believe this thread is our first conversation. “Constant personal attacks?” What ARE you talking about? How dare you slander my reputation on this board. I have not attacked you. I have certainly not attacked you personally.

You’ve attacked me several times, even though I tried very hard to be respectful to you.

 

[MIZER]

“Pastor” Jim posted this gem:

Yes. I do. That’s why I tried so hard to talk to you here and in other threads and was respectful to you, even in the face of your constant personal attacks.

No, I will heed Christ’s command to shake the dust off my feet.

Hello? I believe this thread is our first conversation. “Constant personal attacks?” What ARE you talking about? How dare you slander my reputation on this board. I have not attacked you. I have certainly not attacked you personally.

Are you calling me dust? How rude!

And I was really expecting the Catholics here to behave in a Christlike manner.

LOL!!!

 

[MIZER]

Pastor Jim,

Can’t you just respond to the Scripture verses I posted for you? Please enlighten me with your vast knowledge. I really want to better understand the Baptist mindset. I don’t understand why you jumped on me instead of just responding with patience and guidance.

 

[Harmony1988]

I’m sorry that you feel that scripture is a personal attack against you.

Scripture isn’t recommending you go out and call people fool’s, you are misusing scripture. As you always were.

Oh, believe me, you’ve made your contempt for me well known. However, I didn’t say that it’s my personal opinion that you’re a fool. I cited a passage of scripture that says that doing what you’ve done here is a sign of being a fool.

So now I’m in contempt, but you aren’t for callign other people’s fools. I just said it to see what you were say in return, and I’m glad you took the bait. Apparently you can go around calling other people fools but they can’t take offense, but when others do, they are showing “contempt” for you. Don’t try to act like the bullied. And that’s not what you said.

Once again, it’s your opinion vs God’s word.

More like my opinion against your interpretation of scripture, which ultimately is your opinion. I hope you don’t try evangelizing people ike this.

Like I said, you’ve all made your contempt for me very clear.

Not really

The funny thing is that even several of your own fellow Catholics have pointed out your behavior toward me and have asked you to stop on my behalf.

They have? I didn’t see it, yet, but I’m sure I will soon.

And neither is your pope.

Where did this come from? Are you showing contempt for the Pope?

You’ve attacked me several times, even though I tried very hard to be respectful to you.

Me saying please don’t act like a 2nd grader or something to that extent is hardly a reason to act as if you have been crucified.

 

[mercygate]

I hope the moderators come in and pull you guys apart and send all of you to detention!

 

[RobHom]

I have already cited 1 John 4 for you, which shows that one cannot do this and claim to be born again.

There’s nothing in scripture to indicate that one cannot be baptised more than once.

See below…

The phrase commonly rendered “one baptism” is en baptisma, which refers to the result of baptism, not the number of baptisms one is allowed to have.

Actually…your claim is a little off the mark: the two words in the phrase are unum baptisma. Translated “literally” means ONE in the “singular”. SO, this: 5 unus Dominus una fides unum baptisma…translated to English is this: One Lord, one faith, one baptism. Which is quite clearly ONE God, ONE Church, ONE Baptism! It does not mean…do it again when you get the urge or feel like “fitting in”, or celebrating a birthday or whatever. ONE…as in ONE, and thats “Biblical”.

I would strongly suggest that you read Ephesians 4:2-16 in it’s entirety, rather than focusing on that one particular phrase.

I’m think that you might want to…rather than narrowing your focus, read the entire Chapter 4…and get the actual context of the message.

No, there is nothing sacreligious about it.

Inasmuch as it may not seem “sacreligious” … it is certainly “un-Biblical”.

We do not consider it a sacrement, but an ordinance.

That could be a part of the problem…along with mis-understanding what the Scriptures read on the issue.

Please cite your source where the Bible says that somebody is only allowed to be baptised once.

**One Lord, one faith, one baptism. = unus Dominus una fides unum baptisma **

 

[RobHom]

I’ve already stated that the Bible does not tell us to be baptised again. However, not telling us to do something is entirely different than telling us not to do something.

At first…I was considering labeling that statement a mere “obfuscation”…but the more I thought about it…it made a great deal of sense…because it really “does”. But what it really “does” is destroys the non-Catholics “Biblical” arguments against what Catholics do in the worship of God.

What Baptist believes this? Please stop with the strawmen. It only makes your side look bad.

Actually, and I say this with 100% honesty and sincerity: I have known several Baptists who have been “baptized” several times. It would seem that it is either a “thing” with them…something to prove to those around them…that they are “one of the team”, or it is a form of “confession” by water…

Its not a “strawman”…and your denial of the practice of members of your admitted faith…shows you either know little of what goes on…or you are in denial. Both of which reflect poorly on you.

 

[RobHom]

… However, the passage of scripture I referred you to three times states that it isn’t possible for someone who is born again to do so.
Are you familiar with 1 John 4?

Whoa… are you sure you are familiar with 1 John 4?

I think you’re taking a bit of “literary license” and taking it a bit out of context. Nowhere in that Chapter does it state that someone who has accepted Christ cannot sin again… What it appears you are attempting to do is subvert the fact that man has “free will”…

 

[RobHom]

You know, Mizer, I tried very hard to be respectful to you.

Not so. But if what you have posted recently is to be considered “respectful”… Might I suggest some “perception realignment”?

If this is the way you’re going to be, then it’s probably best that I just ignore you.

I guess that might probably be your best course of action …considering that your responses have shown a strong tendency toward “ad hominem”…and petty insults that show ample disrespect for the Catholic Church, the Pope and Catholics in general.

For someone who claims to be a “Pastor”…you appear to have a very scant understanding of Scripture and are very short of communication skills.

Mizer didn’t disrespect you at all. Not once! Unless you mistakenly consider “questions” or “challenges” to your statements as disrespectful. If you do, that is your shortcoming.

“Casting pearls before swine…and fools”… Sir, at this point it would be so easy to play that on you… but instead, I will just say… I’m not impressed, in fact… at a minimum I am “under-whelmed”!

MIZER…is a good example of a Catholic… you could learn something from MIZER.

 

[RobHom]

Oh, and while its too late to edit the one post where I referenced the scriptures regarding ONE Baptism…it was from the Douay-Rheims Bible here: drbo.org/chapter/56004.htm , and the Latin Vulgate here: drbo.org/lvb/chapter/56004.htm

I posted the sources, lest there be any “confusion”.

 

[MIZER]

Dear RobHom,

Boy, what can I say? Thank you for weighing in. And for the support. I always thought one Baptism meant only once although I think Mercygate has a point that it can also be taken to mean the correct one.

At anyrate, I appreciate your setting “pastor” Jim straight on the issue of respect. I doubt we will hear from him again on this thread.

You take care and may God Bless.

 

[RobHom]

Dear RobHom,

Boy, what can I say? Thank you for weighing in. And for the support.

I am but a humble servant.

I always thought one Baptism meant only once although I think Mercygate has a point that it can also be taken to mean the correct one.

I understand Mercygate’s point, but I am more inclined to accept what the Bible actually says regarding the issue. Its really “quite” succinct.

At anyrate, I appreciate your setting “pastor” Jim straight on the issue of respect. I doubt we will hear from him again on this thread.

Again, I am but a humble servant.

You take care and may God Bless.

You too, my friend! May God Bless Us ALL!!

 

[panoikei]

While I was typing the question, josephdanial was answering it:

So why don’t all protestants see this as a problem when the Bible clearly says one baptism? I would think there would be an exodus from churches that baptise multiple times. How can they miss the fact that this was not Christ’s plan?

The problem I’ve experienced with all of these practices…rebaptizing…is evident that something is missing. One time a sick person called the elders of a church we used to attend, before I even attended it. The elders were so confused as to what to do. How do we annoint the sick person…it is scriptural… so what should we annoint them with…olive oil…what else…or only… The elders are said to be the bishops as described in the bible in independent congregations…autonomous. No central body…that’s what they perceive to be the model in the bible. Well, the even put so much stress on the elders and it was very awkward because they didn’t even know exactly what to say… How would say that…it is a ritual…it is scriptural… it was such a axious moment for them that they swore never to do it again…and refuse to talk about it. Rebaptism in a way seems to emulate confession… public. They don’t really know what to do and so they guess…they think they have it… But if it’s not right…then where do we go. That’s why there is so much division among them. that’s why there are over 30,000 communities that call themselves “the real” or best model church.

I’m glad to be home… no more figuring all that mess out anymore. When I bolted in 89’ my wife and I ended up visitin/placing membership over 20 chruches… We were married 17 years prior to coming home to the Catholic Church. They say actions speak louder than words…that’s a lot of action… we never could find any peace.