Getting clear about homosexuality

[Chantal25]

One thing that Jean Paul II wrote was not to judge by any mean.

If you support the church regarding the issue of contraception, abortion or homosexuality, it doesn’t mean that you judge but you trust their decision comes from a higher power.

I guess if you have family or a child or someone you know that struggle with this issue, is to pray for them and love them unconditionally. In time they will follow the right path with this great love at their side.

I pray that they read the article that Jean Paul II wrote, i thought it was insightful and it brought great light to my question about this topic. I recalled a line that he wrote to remember that we are most of all a child of God.

Hugs and love

 

[beenwashed]

I think the problem is that there is a lot of people who think that since we believe the act of homosexuality is a sin, we immediately hate the person. That is far from the truth.

 

[Patavium]

The existence of gay gene is still rejected by many scientists.

sciencemag.org/content/284/5414/665.short ← This study finds that the hypothesis of women passing through the X chromosome the genetic predisposition for their male offspring to be homosexual is not observed.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1678219/pdf/bmj00033-0005.pdf ← This is a critical review about the issue.

Lastly,

ijpor.oxfordjournals.org/content/12/3/259.short

This study of Public Opinion finds that the more likely people believe that homosexual is genetic, then they are more likely to support homosexuality marriages. However, the evidence on homosexuality as a genetic trait is not favorable, and clear cuts as many think.

 

[Ethan88]

The existence of gay gene is still rejected by many scientists.

Allow me to illustrate how science works. Scientists don’t “reject” things, that is unscientific; rather, they analyze them and come to conclusions. Not finding a gay gene is not equivalent to rejecting it.

While we’re on topic, could you refer to me the gene that determines you a heterosexual?

 

[OneDayASaint]

Allow me to illustrate how science works. Scientists don’t “reject” things, that is unscientific; rather, they analyze them and come to conclusions. Not finding a gay gene is not equivalent to rejecting it.

While we’re on topic, could you refer to me the gene that determines you a heterosexual?

This is true on all counts but one.

Many of them reject God on that count.

I have to disagree with you on the heterosexual gene, however. Anyone remotely familiar with science (biology, specifically) is also familiar with sexual and asexual reproduction. Our species is designed for sexual reproduction and that requires a male and a female. Heterosexuals don’t need a gene when they have an entire body that demonstrates it was built to propagate the species through heterosexual intercourse. Homosexuality disallows continuation of the particular homosexual’s genetics which doesn’t make sense because it runs counter to our design (whether you call it God’s design or not).

Whether that deviation from the original animal instinct to populate the world around us is to be condemned, ignored, or encouraged is where the discourse should begin.

Homosexuals don’t need a gene to be found as proof, either. You either choose to live as a Catholic and don’t act on SSA or you don’t choose to live as a Catholic and you either do or don’t act on SSA.

 

[Domiy]

WARNING this might sound a bit vulgar and inappropriate for the usual liking but I think it’s relevant.

Natural design of humanity ??? As defined by who ? You ? The Church ? Jerry Fallwell ? My definition of the Natural design of humanity is obiviously different then yours. You seem to consider homosexuality un-natural because you (I assume) are not gay. I consider it quite natural and therefore part of the Natural design of humanity cause I am gay. So, based on what authority are you correct and I am wrong ? before you answer, make sure that that authority is the same for both of us. dunno if my Higher-power has the same attributes as yours… We all see different things in God

Yeah, you can’t have natural sex the way it was intended. What’s beautiful about a man and a woman having sex is that their 2 organs work naturally together, deriving both sensation and reproduction. Homosexuals aren’t favored by nature on the simple basis that they’re unable to enjoy such perks. You’d usually find that gay sex requires lubricant and pointless abuse of an organ which was not designed to be penetrated, neither by pleasure or benefit standards. If it were natural, they’d be able to reproduce and live in nature. They can’t do that. This is both God’s definition and that of his creation which is nature itself. It’s not natural.

I just want to point out that it clearly states in the bible ALL sin is the same in God’s eyes and no sin is greater than a other. We ALL are going to sin until the day we die. We can not avoid it. Saying one sin is greater than the other just because YOU are disgusted by it is laughable. No matter how many times you go to confession or ask for forgiveness you are still a sinner and I guarentee you will walk out of that confessional and commit another sin. Why? We are humans. We are not perfect. We will never be perfect until we die and get to Heaven.

This is a misunderstood idea, and the Church and other scripture readings do a good job of addressing it. Purgatory has levels, so does sin. A priest using his power to steal church funds from the Vatican is not the same stealing a candy bar from the local corner shop. Yes, they’re both stealing and sinful, but one is much worse for a variety of reasons, and punishment for each would be seen as different. Same goes for killing. Technically, killing someobody who was about to slaughter your family isn’t seen as sinful by the Church, but it’s still killing. Now compare that to going out of your way to kill somebody you didn’t like.

And there are passages in the Bible which imply a different level and severity of sins. This is why venial and mortal sins exist in separate definitions.

Be careful with pro-gay stuff, especially deceiving Hollywood films. Their agenda is to destroy the family structure and force pro-gay stuff to the world. Stay away from those kind of films. Don’t be fooled, homosexuality is not the sad story they make it out be. One very popular study on homosexuals/lesbians with sources ranging from 2-30 years ago concluded some interesting facts. A majority of women who end up on death row were lesbians. Homosexuals were actually earning more money than heterosexuals in their jobs and were at higher positions. Most of them engage in “one-night stands” which also involved drugs and alcohol. The average homosexual changes partners about 35 times more often than the average heterosexual. Etc.

 

[Ethan88]

I have to disagree with you on the heterosexual gene, however. Anyone remotely familiar with science (biology, specifically) is also familiar with sexual and asexual reproduction. Our species is designed for sexual reproduction and that requires a male and a female. Heterosexuals don’t need a gene when they have an entire body that demonstrates it was built to propagate the species through heterosexual intercourse. Homosexuality disallows continuation of the particular homosexual’s genetics which doesn’t make sense because it runs counter to our design (whether you call it God’s design or not).

Whether that deviation from the original animal instinct to populate the world around us is to be condemned, ignored, or encouraged is where the discourse should begin.

But your anatomy doesn’t dictate a sexual orientation, attractions is in the brain. Some people are asexual, and what about people with Gender Identity Disorder?

 

[Ethan88]

Yeah, you can’t have natural sex the way it was intended. What’s beautiful about a man and a woman having sex is that their 2 organs work naturally together, deriving both sensation and reproduction. Homosexuals aren’t favored by nature on the simple basis that they’re unable to enjoy such perks. You’d usually find that gay sex requires lubricant and pointless abuse of an organ which was not designed to be penetrated, neither by pleasure or benefit standards. If it were natural, they’d be able to reproduce and live in nature. They can’t do that. This is both God’s definition and that of his creation which is nature itself. It’s not natural.

Like you, I don’t mean to bring up sexual intercourse but it is relevant here.

Quick question, are you against foreplay, kissing, holding hands, or fellatio between heterosexual couples?

Be careful with pro-gay stuff, especially deceiving Hollywood films. Their agenda is to destroy the family structure and force pro-gay stuff to the world. Stay away from those kind of films. Don’t be fooled, homosexuality is not the sad story they make it out be. One very popular study on homosexuals/lesbians with sources ranging from 2-30 years ago concluded some interesting facts. A majority of women who end up on death row were lesbians. Homosexuals were actually earning more money than heterosexuals in their jobs and were at higher positions. Most of them engage in “one-night stands” which also involved drugs and alcohol. The average homosexual changes partners about 35 times more often than the average heterosexual. Etc.

This is just a very misinformed, bad argument.

The majority of people on death row (and in prison for that matter) are black, have you spoken out against them? Also, you said that “most” homosexuals engage in one-night stands, how do you know? Can you verify that? Also, 35 times more partner changes? So that is to say for every heterosexual male that has, say, 5 girlfriends by the time he’s 30…you’re telling me that a 30 year old gay male would have had 175?

I mean, your last paragraph was a joke, right?

 

[OneDayASaint]

But your anatomy doesn’t dictate a sexual orientation, attractions is in the brain. Some people are asexual, and what about people with Gender Identity Disorder?

This is true. Our brain contradicts the reproductive and survival instincts often. Sometimes this is good, sometimes this is bad. Sometimes neither. Sacrificing your life to save someone else’s could possibly be the epitome of contradicting the instincts that are built into us and that can be a very noble thing.

I’d imagine there’s a lot of research on feel good hormones and deviant behavior. Jumping out of a plane is really weird but some people love adrenaline rushes. Drug addiction is another big one. Some addictions kill you and some (usually the same ones) will cause you to do things you find repulsive so you can feed your addiction.

What we do and what we’re meant to do aren’t always the same thing.

Whether it was evolution or God that made us the way we are, we are still meant to reproduce sexually. That’s only possible with a male and a female. At least with our species. I know there are some weird anomalies in the animal kingdom. If your brain makes you homosexual, asexual, GID, or any other thing than heterosexual you can still reproduce if you for some reason have intercourse with the opposite sex and you still can’t reproduce if you live by your inclinations.

It doesn’t matter what kind of orientation we have, what kind of morality we have, or what kind of opinion we have on other people’s orientation and morality. Whether we like it or not there is only one way to naturally produce offspring because that’s the way our bodies were designed.

EDIT: I suppose you could have GID and live by your sexual orientation and still reproduce if you were a woman that felt like a man but was attracted to men or a man that felt like a woman but was attracted to women. I knew a couple that were like that. The man was slowly going through the process of a sex change but was still in a relationship with his wife. If he decided to put his genitals under the knife to resemble a woman then they wouldn’t be able to anymore.

 

[Ethan88]

This is true. Our brain contradicts the reproductive and survival instincts often. Sometimes this is good, sometimes this is bad. Sometimes neither. Sacrificing your life to save someone else’s could possibly be the epitome of contradicting the instincts that are built into us and that can be a very noble thing.

I’d imagine there’s a lot of research on feel good hormones and deviant behavior. Jumping out of a plane is really weird but some people love adrenaline rushes. Drug addiction is another big one. Some addictions kill you and some (usually the same ones) will cause you to do things you find repulsive so you can feed your addiction.

What we do and what we’re meant to do aren’t always the same thing.

Right on! Totally agree!

Whether it was evolution or God that made us the way we are, we are still meant to reproduce sexually. That’s only possible with a male and a female. At least with our species.

Let me ask you this…just because we can produce, does that mean we should? Does that, for instance, legitimize a relationship between…say…an adult male and a teenage girl, because she’s post-pubescent? Does it legitimize polygamy?

Whether we like it or not there is only one way to naturally produce offspring because that’s the way our bodies were designed.

I know you’ll definitely agree with me after reading my last point, and concede that we should surely not take our morality from whether it fits the idea of procreation, right?

I suppose you could have GID and live by your sexual orientation and still reproduce if you were a woman that felt like a man but was attracted to men or a man that felt like a woman but was attracted to women. I knew a couple that were like that. The man was slowly going through the process of a sex change but was still in a relationship with his wife. If he decided to put his genitals under the knife to resemble a woman then they wouldn’t be able to anymore.

I brought up GID because sometimes our brains do not agree with our anatomy.

 

[OneDayASaint]

Right on! Totally agree!

Let me ask you this…just because we can produce, does that mean we should? Does that, for instance, legitimize a relationship between…say…an adult male and a teenage girl, because she’s post-pubescent? Does it legitimize polygamy?

I actually read adult men with a fixation on teenage girls have a form of pedophilia. Ephebophile and teleiophile depending on how developed they are. I think it’s an aberration. I think polygamy is silly at best. There are people and entire cultures that would disagree with me on that. But you asked for my opinion and there it is.

I know you’ll definitely agree with me after reading my last point, and concede that we should surely not take our morality from whether it fits the idea of procreation, right?

I would have agreed with you on that without any illustrations on your part!

I brought up GID because sometimes our brains do not agree with our anatomy.

I think most of the time our brains do not agree with our anatomy! I feel like my brain is not following the natural order of my body every time I eat a doughnut.

 

[Domiy]

Like you, I don’t mean to bring up sexual intercourse but it is relevant here.

Quick question, are you against foreplay, kissing, holding hands, or fellatio between heterosexual couples?

This is just a very misinformed, bad argument.

The majority of people on death row (and in prison for that matter) are black, have you spoken out against them? Also, you said that “most” homosexuals engage in one-night stands, how do you know? Can you verify that? Also, 35 times more partner changes? So that is to say for every heterosexual male that has, say, 5 girlfriends by the time he’s 30…you’re telling me that a 30 year old gay male would have had 175?

I mean, your last paragraph was a joke, right?

1. Depends what you mean by couple. Married couples? If they’re married, I see nothing wrong with them expressing love with a bit of passion. Meh, even if they’re not married and only dating, there’s nothing really wrong with innocent kissing or holding hands as long as it’s kept sensibly. So no, not against them for heterosexuals. I assume you’re now going to say that it should be OK for homosexuals to do these things?
2. And no, it wasn’t a joke. While statistics are always limited, they’re still a good indicator. Most people on death row being black is probably not a coincidence. By that we can probably conclude that black people are more likely to commit crimes because of their hard upbringing and environment.

And yes, as amazing as it sounds, they are verified (albeit outdated) statistics. Here they are in full.

One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106 partners per year (6).

Many homosexual sexual encounters occur while drunk, high on drugs, or in an orgy setting (7).

Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses after heavy protesting and guerrilla tactics, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels “subjective distress”) (27).

Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States (5)

They make up only 1-2% of the population. Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the “gay bowel syndrome” (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus (27).

73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization (13).

Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film “The Castro”, one minute stands) (3).

Homosexuals were responsible for spreading AIDS in the United States, and then raised up violent groups like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it. Even today, homosexuals account for well over 50% of the AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a large number considering that they account for only 1-2% of the population. Homosexuals account for a disproportionate number of hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne (8).

41% of homosexuals say they have had sex with strangers in public restrooms, 60% say they have had sex with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs (8).

33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7).

Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molester, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molester (19).

73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9).
Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: “The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality” (22).

So yeah, I’l stop it there, but that gives it a pretty good outline methinks. Not only are they sexual deviants, they’re more likely to commit or motivate crimes, as well as a bunch of other sick stuff. You can argue that things have perhaps changed in the last 20-30 years, but a lion is always a lion, whether one year he mauls significantly less people than the previous.

 

[Domiy]

REFERENCES

(1) Advocate, 1985.

(2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American Psychiatry.

(3) Bell, A. and Weinberg, M. Homosexualities: a Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978.

(4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random Sexuality Survey. Nebraska Med. Journal, 1985, 70, pp. 292-299.

(5) “Changes in Sexual Behavior and Incidence of Gonorrhea.” Lancet, April 25, 1987.

(6) Corey, L. and Holmes, K. “Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men.” New England J. Med., 1980, pp. 435-38.

(7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE.

(8) Fields, Dr. E. “Is Homosexual Activity Normal?” Marietta, GA.

(9) Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books, 1979, p. 275.

(10) Kaifetz, J. “Homosexual Rights Are Concern for Some,” Post-Tribune, 18 December 1992.

(11) Kus, R. “Alcoholics Anonymous and Gay America.” Medical Journal of Homosexuality, 1987, 14(2), p. 254.

(12) Lesbian News, January 1994.

(13) Lief, H. Sexual Survey Number 4: Current Thinking on Homosexuality, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, 1977, pp. 110-11.

(14) Manlight, G. et. al. “Chronic Immune Stimulation By Sperm Alloantigens.” J. American Med. Assn., 1984, 251(2), pp. 237-438.

(15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy

(16) MsKusick, L. et. al. “AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported By Gay Men in San Francisco.” Am. J. Pub. Health, 1985, 75, pp. 493-96.

(17) Newsweek, February 1993.

(18) Newsweek, 4 October 1993.

(19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37.

(20) Rueda, E. “The Homosexual Network.” Old Greenwich, Conn., The Devin Adair Company, 1982, p. 53.

(21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, “Can We Talk.”

(22) San Francisco Sentinel, 27 March 1992.

(23) Science Magazine, 18 July 1993, p. 322.

(24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990.

(25) “The Overhauling of Straight America.” Guide Magazine. November, 1987.

(26) United States Census Bureau

(27) United States Congressional Record, June 29, 1989.

(28) University of Chicago’s Nation Research Corp.

(29) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition, American Psychiatric Association, 1994.

 

[Ethan88]

1. Depends what you mean by couple. Married couples? If they’re married, I see nothing wrong with them expressing love with a bit of passion. Meh, even if they’re not married and only dating, there’s nothing really wrong with innocent kissing or holding hands as long as it’s kept sensibly. So no, not against them for heterosexuals. I assume you’re now going to say that it should be OK for homosexuals to do these things?
2. And no, it wasn’t a joke. While statistics are always limited, they’re still a good indicator. Most people on death row being black is probably not a coincidence. By that we can probably conclude that black people are more likely to commit crimes because of their hard upbringing and environment.

And yes, as amazing as it sounds, they are verified (albeit outdated) statistics. Here they are in full.

Did you read your “statistics”? They as perhaps the stupidiest, most contradictory things I have ever read…on part with the ones that claim 50% of Catholic Priests have engaged in pedophilia.

Some even contradict eachother, let’s read some:

One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106 partners per year (6).

73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization (13).

Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film “The Castro”, one minute stands) (3).

Also, this was hilariously stupid:

33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7).

Wow, 33% of people are pedophiles, I’m sure this is verifiable too!

means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molester

Oh wait a second, that’s funny, I thought 33% were pedophiles!

73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9).

Oops, ignore the last 2, it’s actually 73%!

Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: “The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality” (22).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

So yeah, I’l stop it there, but that gives it a pretty good outline methinks. Not only are they sexual deviants, they’re more likely to commit or motivate crimes, as well as a bunch of other sick stuff. You can argue that things have perhaps changed in the last 20-30 years, but a lion is always a lion, whether one year he mauls significantly less people than the previous.

So not only did you not read you statistics, many of which contradict…just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse, you come to an even more absurd conclusion. Had I posted statistics about Christian murderers and rapists as well as Catholic priests as pedophiles, and manipulated them in the same way you have, I’d have been banned. You’re pretty disturbing Domiy, which makes your last paragraph all the more ironic. Not to mention, your signature reads “In Jesus name…”, I’d remove that, for your sake…

 

[Domiy]

For my sake? Why so? Because I’m posting anti-homosexual stuff? Yeah, Jesus would so be against that, wouldn’t he? It’s not like Homosexuality is an abomination in the Bible…

I don’t know what you’re trying to prove or argue (or quite frankly what you’re doing so heavily defending homosexuality on a Catholic forum), but I don’t think anyone appreciates it. For a start, you’ve made no effort to argue against my points. Your only argument is “LOL they sound stupid, so therefore they must be wrong!”. I’m afraid, that’s not exactly how it works, coming from a University student.

You need to remember, the stats and references I posted are simply a compilation of different studies by different authors, not a combined conclusion on the issue (which explains the the inconsistencies). They are not concluding anything, just presenting the facts. You can argue that they sound crazy and contradictory all you want, but they are referenced and supported by verifiable sources and studies. There are many that do the same thing as well.

Here’s another more recent and reputable study on the issue that concludes some of the same stuff

glhv.org.au/report/writing-themselves-3-wti3-report

And aside from their lifestyle, I haven’t even gotten into the fact that homosexuals have a clear secret agenda against destroying the Church. They rallied infront of thousands of Catholics at World Youth Day in Sydney a few years ago, defacing sacred objects and icons. Not only that, but at the most recent Mardi Gras parade, they publicly urinated all over the long-standing cathedral in the city. They’re not some poor alienated group that deserves our sympathy. They’re some poor alienated group that deserves our help in expelling the satanism from their sick (and make no mistake, they are ill) minds.

 

[Ethan88]

For my sake? Why so? Because I’m posting anti-homosexual stuff?

Exactly, you’re posting anti-homosexual propaganda as opposed to facts. You are not interested in learning, but spewing statistics that either you’re not comprehending or don’t understand. For instance, look at 3 “statistics” you posted:

33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7).

means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molester

73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9).

Your first -]joke/-] source says 1 in 3 homosexuals are having sex with minors, your second says 1 in 20, and your third says 3 in 4…so which it? You see you just scoured anti-gay propaganda and posted it, like a parrot, that spews things but doesn’t know what it’s saying.

You need to remember, the stats and references I posted are simply a compilation of different studies by different authors

Surely you must be trolling, for you consider this a “study”:

Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: “The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality” (22).

Who are these “many” homosexuals? The “foundation” is not just being ignorant and misinformed, but it’s just flat out stupidity; who would agree with that?

And aside from their lifestyle, I haven’t even gotten into the fact that homosexuals have a clear secret agenda against destroying the Church.

Your tin-foil hat should arrive in the mail shortly

They’re some poor alienated group that deserves our help in expelling the satanism from their sick (and make no mistake, they are ill) minds.

Wait, you think they are ill? lol…

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Domiy]

Your first joke source says 1 in 3 homosexuals are having sex with minors, your second says 1 in 20, and your third says 3 in 4…so which it? You see you just scoured anti-gay propaganda and posted it, like a parrot, that spews things but doesn’t know what it’s saying.

First of all, why is it a joke source? Because you don’t agree with it? That’s not good enough.

And as I said, there is no conclusion in these stats. It’s just a compilation of different studies which haven’t been factored and calculated together. It’s data - ie, raw facts. The inconsistencies are obviously a result of the different populations tested (you can’t expect every study to have interviewed/observed the exact same group of people), and a range of other things. This is how studies and research works. There are margins of error and obvious differences, but ultimately they are used as appropriate materials.

I admit, some of them sound crazy and too conclusive (fair enough, the one about many homosexuals being pedophiles because of a single statement from a small group is too loose to be used), but the majority of them are interesting facts, particularly the stats on their own. Have a look at the references, the authors, the sources. If you have a problem, get into contact with those who published or did the studies. But how about instead of finding loose ways to pick apart my sources, you provide some of your own? Is there any sort strong evidence you can give that supports the homosexual position, ie that encouraging the lifestyle that lead to the spread of STD’s would be beneficial?

 

[sirach2v4]

One thing to keep in mind as you get “clear” on homosexuality…many people who are gay are born gay.
So just something to keep in mind…

do a search on youtube for the vid by national geographic on homosexuality. It explains the current idea about how people are born gay, due to events during fetal development.

When a gay decides to “come out” it seems this is a decision to sin, to say that “well, that’s the way I am and I’m going to live out that reality.”

There are gays who up to a certain point in their life decided not to come out as gay, to just “say no” to the gay impulses and lifestyle. I think this is what the Bible calls “carrying your cross” and as Jesus says, he who does not take up his cross and follow me, is not worthy of me.

Judaism has a similar insight into morally correct living. You know, the vast majority of us don’t have a strong urge to commit murder. But, there are other sins like stealing that we are sorely tempted with. Resisting these very intense temptations are the essense of a stong religious life know that the abstinence from such sins is doing God’s will.

We all have many temptations – the deadly sins – lust, envy, gluttony, etc.

We are called to be holy, as God is holy – everybody, even homosexuals.

Pressuring kids to “come out” is pushing them into what is clearly a sinful lifestyle.

 

[Ethan88]

There are margins of error and obvious differences, but ultimately they are used as appropriate materials.

Except the statistics are so off that it’s inconstant data, it’s not as if the margin between the 3 studies was a few percentage points; it jumped from 5% to 33% to 73%! It’s just a silly, deranged argument that is not only old (20+ years), but frankly, embarrassing to even use.

I admit, some of them sound crazy and too conclusive (fair enough, the one about many homosexuals being pedophiles because of a single statement from a small group is too loose to be used)

You’re backpeddling not because it sounds “crazy”, but because you didn’t bother reading them to see the obvious contradictions. It’s like seeing a poll of the presidential elections, where 10 organizations have the country between 50%±5%, and then a poll by WeHateRepublicansUSA that has it 91% Obama, 9% Romney. You have to read and think, because you’re just detracting your supporters and giving ammunition to your opposition.

Have a look at the references, the authors, the sources. If you have a problem, get into contact with those who published or did the studies.

I don’t have a problem with them because I take their statistics as seriously as I do a monkey at the zoo. I mean, do you really expect me to contact source #13 and go "hi, Mr. Lief, I had some questions about your study done 35 years ago". Or how about source #7, the Family Research Institute, like that’s an objective organization. It’s like asking neo-nazis their opinions on blacks and jews.

So my question to you is, did you read the sources and analyzed the data? Or did you post them without thinking?

But how about instead of finding loose ways to pick apart my sources, you provide some of your own? Is there any sort strong evidence you can give that supports the homosexual position, ie that encouraging the lifestyle that lead to the spread of STD’s would be beneficial?

I love your loaded question…I can now see why you used those “sources” afterall.

 

[Baelor]

No one can say they were born gay. That would be like saying I was born to like the color blue. There is no proof to back any of that up.

The fact that we do not have enough evidence to support the theory does not mean that the theory is not true.

Again, if you want to make a firm case as to homosexuality being anything other than a choice, the burden of proof is on you. Saying, “I just know it” doesn’t make it so.

That makes no sense. Why is the burden of proof on that side? Why is the position that it is a choice the default one that must be disproved?

When a gay decides to “come out” it seems this is a decision to sin, to say that “well, that’s the way I am and I’m going to live out that reality.”

One can live of the reality of being gay in a way compatible with Catholic teaching. “Coming out” does not involve a “decision to sin.”