Getting dragged into an unpleasant situation

[ThyKingdomCome]

Just my opinion, but a large gift to keep someone away, might just ensure that they come back asking for more. After all, generous once might mean generous again and again, at least from the perspective of the recipient. What happens when the new trailer needs costly repairs, or burns down too, or when some other new crisis arises? Whether or not you decide that this is a one time gift, Cletus might not think so, and you might not actually get what you want, which is not to be caught in the middle of things. I’m not making a statement on the morality of giving him the trailer or not, just on the effectiveness (or lack) of doing it to put distance between yourself and him.

 

[Xantippe]

Just my opinion, but a large gift to keep someone away, might just ensure that they come back asking for more. After all, generous once might mean generous again and again, at least from the perspective of the recipient. What happens when the new trailer needs costly repairs, or burns down too, or when some other new crisis arises? Whether or not you decide that this is a one time gift, Cletus might not think so, and you might not actually get what you want, which is not to be caught in the middle of things. I’m not making a statement on the morality of giving him the trailer or not, just on the effectiveness (or lack) of doing it to put distance between yourself and him.

Well, didn’t the last trailer last him 10 years?

That’s pretty good.

 

[underacloud]

I would be looking for a quick way out of this. I think two good avenues have been identified by other posters in this thread:

a) gift the land to his parents (or a trust).

b) sell the land.

The only other option I could see would be to get another tenant onto the land ASAP, so he can’t return. But that could cause some serious family issues.

I would not buy another trailer and return to the previous arrangements. But if you gift the land to his parents, buying another trailer might be a generous thing to do.

 

[silver_moon]

Cletus has also been having an affair with his married first cousin, Prudence, since he was 14 and she was 22.

Sorry you are dealing with this nightmare. That’s not an affair; that’s child sexual assault. 14 is below the age of consent. Continuing sexual contact after he reached the age of consent makes this complicated, but he started out as a victim. That may be part of why his family indulges him too much, they may have feelings of guilt from not doing anything about it. Then again, they may just have been totally hands off. An abusive relationship that becomes voluntary but still involves violent arguments and the police being called is a really complicated situation that I can’t even imagine trying to figure out.

I’m sorry you have to deal with such a complicated situation and my advice is to pray and contact a really good lawyer. You may need to talk to a therapist as well. I don’t know if anyone has suggested either donating the land or the money from the sale to charity, such as a church or other well-regarded charity. If you really don’t care about the money and you don’t want them expressing bad feelings, that may be a way to handle it. You could truthfully tell them you found people in greater need than they were. Or not make that comparison if it makes them angry, I don’t know. Also a donation may make it less likely for anyone to sue or try to recover the money/land. An experienced family therapist may also need to review any wording you come up with.

So this mess is likely to cost you money but if you are OK with that, good can come out of this situation, including maybe greater independence for Cletus.

Since they are so difficult, I’d run everything by a really good lawyer before saying/doing anything. They may suggest all communications go through a lawyer with no direct contact. And I agree that the sooner this is dealt with, the better.

 

[pianistclare]

Sorry you are dealing with this nightmare. That’s not an affair; that’s child sexual assault. 14 is below the age of consent. Continuing sexual contact after he reached the age of consent makes this complicated, but he started out as a victim. That may be part of why his family indulges him too much, they may have feelings of guilt from not doing anything about it. Then again, they may just have been totally hands off. An abusive relationship that becomes voluntary but still involves violent arguments and the police being called is a really complicated situation that I can’t even imagine trying to figure out.

I’m sorry you have to deal with such a complicated situation and my advice is to pray and contact a really good lawyer. You may need to talk to a therapist as well. I don’t know if anyone has suggested either donating the land or the money from the sale to charity, such as a church or other well-regarded charity. If you really don’t care about the money and you don’t want them expressing bad feelings, that may be a way to handle it. You could truthfully tell them you found people in greater need than they were. Or not make that comparison if it makes them angry, I don’t know. Also a donation may make it less likely for anyone to sue or try to recover the money/land. An experienced family therapist may also need to review any wording you come up with.

So this mess is likely to cost you money but if you are OK with that, good can come out of this situation, including maybe greater independence for Cletus.

Since they are so difficult, I’d run everything by a really good lawyer before saying/doing anything. They may suggest all communications go through a lawyer with no direct contact. And I agree that the sooner this is dealt with, the better.

great advice. leave it to the pros.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Totally worth it.

Are you familiar with the saying, “If you lend your brother-in-law $100 and he never speaks to you again, was it worth it?”

I want to see him, but I only want to see the sober version of him. I’m really not trying to make him go away for good.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Keep in mind that Billy Bob left everything to your wife and not to his parents or to Cletus for a very good reason. If he did not tell your wife what that reason was, be sure it was because he didn’t want to give anything to Cletus. If he had, he would have either a) explained this to your wife or b) the way he and she have always acted towards Cletus would have made it understood between them. Have your wife keep those reasons in mind as you go forward–would Billy Bob have wanted her to tell Cletus that he’s out of luck now that the trailer burned or would he have wanted her to do what she could to help him without exposing herself to the punishments that fall upon the naively generous? Tell her to make her best guess and go with that.

He left everything to my wife because the money would be gone if he left it to anyone else. I’m beginning to see that the money would be gone because my in-laws have allowed themselves to become doormats. For example, they nearly missed my daughter’s baptism because Prudence needed someone to pick up her dogs from the pound after she was arrested. Not only do they still remain in contact with this crazy woman but they are willing to drop everything and drive a full day to make sure that her dogs do not get euthanized.

Prudence sounds as she might have a bona-fide anti-social disorder. Stay off of her radar, whatever it takes. That kind is as dangerous as an angry snake.

I’ve only met the woman a handful of times and know enough to stay away. She faked a pregnancy to get Cletus to take her back after a fight. She fakes seizures - as in let me clear a spot to land before I seize fake seizures - to get her parents or my in-laws to give her a place to stay. She thinks that one of her friends called CPS on her so she has been retaliating by calling CPS on her friend. She’s been on 72 hours psychiatric hold twice since last year. I only pray that she still has custody of her children because CPS needs the time to build a stronger case.

 

[slh3016]

Hmmmm…

Here are some options:

1. Sell the land and put the proceeds in an account that you will later have to use for your wife’s parents when they are financially drained from helping the brother.
2. Give the land to the brother free and clear and let him decide whether or not to sell it or put another trailer on it.
3. Purchase a $5,000 trailer and deed the BIL a “life estate” in the land, meaning that your wife still legally owns it but the BIL is free to use it for his life. The stipulations would then be that you and your wife are indemnified from any legal claims that may arise in the future (from Prudence). That would be the consideration paid by him for the life estate. You’ve essentially washed your hands of him, but if something happens to him, you still own the land (not Prudence). He is responsible for paying the taxes or the life estate disappears. Surely the taxes aren’t very much. Heck, the parents will likely pay them. Whether or not you have insurance on the place is up to you…if it burns again, you are out $5,000 and the brother doesn’t have a place to live This may be preferable over a trust because a trust eventually expires and gives the trust assets (corpus) to someone. The life estate or whatever it’s called in your state would likely be much simpler and cheaper to do and your wife retains actual ownership of the land.

 

[Xantippe]

Hmmmm…

Here are some options:

1. Sell the land and put the proceeds in an account that you will later have to use for your wife’s parents when they are financially drained from helping the brother.
   **
   I like that a lot. That is a very good idea and has the virtue of being very simple and not involving ongoing interactions with BIL. But, obviously, don’t mention this to the parents.

I think this is probably more or less what JimBob had in mind.
**

 

[Burt_Macklin]

1. Purchase a $5,000 trailer and deed the BIL a “life estate” in the land, meaning that your wife still legally owns it but the BIL is free to use it for his life. The stipulations would then be that you and your wife are indemnified from any legal claims that may arise in the future (from Prudence). That would be the consideration paid by him for the life estate. You’ve essentially washed your hands of him, but if something happens to him, you still own the land (not Prudence). He is responsible for paying the taxes or the life estate disappears. Surely the taxes aren’t very much. Heck, the parents will likely pay them. Whether or not you have insurance on the place is up to you…if it burns again, you are out $5,000 and the brother doesn’t have a place to live This may be preferable over a trust because a trust eventually expires and gives the trust assets (corpus) to someone. The life estate or whatever it’s called in your state would likely be much simpler and cheaper to do and your wife retains actual ownership of the land.

I like that idea. What makes me hesitate is that everybody has been such a doormat when dealing with Cletus. His parents have always paid his bills (even though he often gives them the cash they have to be the ones to write the check) and given him a car to drive and a cell phone to use. They have purchased him a grand total of 14 cars. He doesn’t respect any of the things he gets. He doesn’t change the oil or do any maintenance on his cars. Heck, sometimes he doesn’t even put gas in his own car. He might drive the car until he’s out of fuel and then leave it along the side of the road until his parents can bring more gas. He goes through cell phones like they are free. His brother initially tried to help him by giving him a nice place to rent and then that turned into a free place to live for the rest of his life. You have to remind him to pay his electricity so the lights don’t get cut off. When you do remind him you’re “nagging” and “treating him like a child.” And yes, the property tax isn’t even going to be 100 dollars but Cletus still is not going to pay it.

Anyway, my wife and I discussed it and Cletus isn’t getting one red cent from us. Not now and not ever. Not because it’s out of our budget but because it will hamstring Cletus and keep him dependant. He needs to decide between beer and a place to live. My in-laws will be the same doormats they’ve always been but we’re not going to be next in line.

 

[nodito]

Anyway, my wife and I discussed it and Cletus isn’t getting one red cent from us. Not now and not ever. Not because it’s out of our budget but because it will hamstring Cletus and keep him dependant. He needs to decide between beer and a place to live. My in-laws will be the same doormats they’ve always been but we’re not going to be next in line.

I think this is the right approach.

 

[slh3016]

Anyway, my wife and I discussed it and Cletus isn’t getting one red cent from us. Not now and not ever. Not because it’s out of our budget but because it will hamstring Cletus and keep him dependant. He needs to decide between beer and a place to live. My in-laws will be the same doormats they’ve always been but we’re not going to be next in line.

That’s actually my vote

I just posted that if you were still inclined to be somewhat charitable toward him.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Well, didn’t the last trailer last him 10 years?

That’s pretty good.

Yes, but the OP didn’t gift the trailer to Cletus 10 years ago, Cletus probably doesn’t see the OP as a source of emergency help. I’ve seen this happen multiple times - once the person who likes to take or be taken care of realizes that you are willing to give your money, there is a good chance they will come to you the next time they have a crisis - and someone in Cletus’ situation is likely to have a lot of those. Think about it - if you give your kid a candy to shut him up every time he pitches a fit in the store, what do you think the kid is going to do every time he goes to the store? He’s going to pitch a fit. It’s basic human nature, and an adult with an addiction, who is accustomed to being taken care of, is definitely going follow the same pattern - look to the person willing to fork out cash, and ask for more. That’s not to say the OP shouldn’t get him the trailer. But if he does, he should be prepared to be contacted again with other requests for help, either directly from Cletus, or from Cletus’ parents. If he truly does intend this to be the last big gift, he should be prepared to have this boundary challenged, and should have a plan to hold it firm.

 

[Xantippe]

Yes, but the OP didn’t gift the trailer to Cletus 10 years ago, Cletus probably doesn’t see the OP as a source of emergency help. I’ve seen this happen multiple times - once the person who likes to take or be taken care of realizes that you are willing to give your money, there is a good chance they will come to you the next time they have a crisis - and someone in Cletus’ situation is likely to have a lot of those. Think about it - if you give your kid a candy to shut him up every time he pitches a fit in the store, what do you think the kid is going to do every time he goes to the store? He’s going to pitch a fit. It’s basic human nature, and an adult with an addiction, who is accustomed to being taken care of, is definitely going follow the same pattern - look to the person willing to fork out cash, and ask for more. That’s not to say the OP shouldn’t get him the trailer. But if he does, he should be prepared to be contacted again with other requests for help, either directly from Cletus, or from Cletus’ parents. If he truly does intend this to be the last big gift, he should be prepared to have this boundary challenged, and should have a plan to hold it firm.

Right.

 

[Allegra]

I wonder why your wife’s brother didn’t split the property in his will in the first place. Did he ever talk to your sister and explain why he did what he did? If it was his intention that his sister take care of his brother for the rest of his natural life, I think that’s completely unreasonable. You and she shouldn’t have to be legally responsible for a grown man. If your brother-in-law can’t afford the taxes, then there’s no point in giving him the land. Why not sell the brother’s share of the land and give him the money, or put it into a trust fund for his children’s future?

 

[EasterJoy]

I like that idea. What makes me hesitate is that everybody has been such a doormat when dealing with Cletus. His parents have always paid his bills (even though he often gives them the cash they have to be the ones to write the check) and given him a car to drive and a cell phone to use. They have purchased him a grand total of 14 cars. He doesn’t respect any of the things he gets. He doesn’t change the oil or do any maintenance on his cars. Heck, sometimes he doesn’t even put gas in his own car. He might drive the car until he’s out of fuel and then leave it along the side of the road until his parents can bring more gas. He goes through cell phones like they are free. His brother initially tried to help him by giving him a nice place to rent and then that turned into a free place to live for the rest of his life. You have to remind him to pay his electricity so the lights don’t get cut off. When you do remind him you’re “nagging” and “treating him like a child.” And yes, the property tax isn’t even going to be 100 dollars but Cletus still is not going to pay it.

Anyway, my wife and I discussed it and Cletus isn’t getting one red cent from us. Not now and not ever. Not because it’s out of our budget but because it will hamstring Cletus and keep him dependant. He needs to decide between beer and a place to live. My in-laws will be the same doormats they’ve always been but we’re not going to be next in line.

He goes through cell phones like they are free…because to him, they are!!

Your brother-in-law left what he had to your wife because she would not waste it. Encourage her to remember that. Don’t disappoint him. If she wants to sell the property and invest the money so that she can give ol’ Cletus something if he’s ever clean and sober, why not? Until he is clean and sober, which could easily be never, try not to make Billy Bob turn in his grave. Don’t let Cletus touch a dime of it until he has shown he has some real appreciation for what a dime is worth. Be the boring and useless sort of relatives that Prudence ignores.

If you don’t own property, you are no one’s landlord. Keep it that way. The most I would give to Cletus is help when he asks for assistance that will actually turn his life around. Never a handout. He’s had enough of those to last a lifetime.

A vacation with the grandparents? Maybe pay to have them go somewhere with you where Cletus and Prudence can’t follow? They could probably use it.

 

[Mummsie]

Sorry you’re having to deal with this.

Expanding on a few previous posts, my suggestion.

Sell the property and place the money in a separate account. When Cletus decides to get sober the money can be used for a rehab facility. Make sure he knows that’s the only thing it will be used for. And if he dies before sobriety, you will donate the money “In Memory of Cletus” to a rehab facility. Make sure he knows this also.

God Bless you.

 

[Xantippe]

Sorry you’re having to deal with this.

Expanding on a few previous posts, my suggestion.

Sell the property and place the money in a separate account. When Cletus decides to get sober the money can be used for a rehab facility. Make sure he knows that’s the only thing it will be used for. And if he dies before sobriety, you will donate the money “In Memory of Cletus” to a rehab facility. Make sure he knows this also.

God Bless you.

That’s a really good idea, too.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Sorry you’re having to deal with this.

Expanding on a few previous posts, my suggestion.

Sell the property and place the money in a separate account. When Cletus decides to get sober the money can be used for a rehab facility. Make sure he knows that’s the only thing it will be used for. And if he dies before sobriety, you will donate the money “In Memory of Cletus” to a rehab facility. Make sure he knows this also.

God Bless you.

Ooooooh, that’s just about the best idea I’ve seen on this thread.

Speaking as someone with multiple family members with substance abuse/dependency issues, it really does take hitting rock-bottom to get them sober, and sometimes that two or three times before it “clicks.” One problem is, though, that a good rehab facility can be brutally expensive. If you’re so inclined–and this is* not* an obligation on your part–then this could be a great act of charity for either him or for someone who really does want the help needed to get clean and sober.

Should you choose this option, one last point, if I may: if he announces he’s going to get sober and wants the help, only pay the rehab facility directly. If he needs transportation there, buy the bus/plane ticket yourself in his name so it can’t be resold. I can just about guarantee you that giving him the cash instead, even if it’s specifically for rehab, will result in nothing but a pretty darn impressive bender.

 

[Xantippe]

Ooooooh, that’s just about the best idea I’ve seen on this thread.

Speaking as someone with multiple family members with substance abuse/dependency issues, it really does take hitting rock-bottom to get them sober, and sometimes that two or three times before it “clicks.” One problem is, though, that a good rehab facility can be brutally expensive. If you’re so inclined–and this is* not* an obligation on your part–then this could be a great act of charity for either him or for someone who really does want the help needed to get clean and sober.

Should you choose this option, one last point, if I may: if he announces he’s going to get sober and wants the help, only pay the rehab facility directly. If he needs transportation there, buy the bus/plane ticket yourself in his name so it can’t be resold. I can just about guarantee you that giving him the cash instead, even if it’s specifically for rehab, will result in nothing but a pretty darn impressive bender.

Yes!