Getting married outdoors with no ordained minister

[BlueEyedLady]

You know I have to say that I think most people would agree, that it isn’t fair to push anyone to chuck their deeply held beliefs even if it is for a wedding or any event that might have something that contradicts their deeply held beliefs… Whether those beliefs are religious, political, moral, or what-have-you. People have an ingrained need and I believe, right to stand by what they believe in and we should respect each other and not seek to “get revenge” in any way.

It wouldn’t be fair for me to ask my atheist friends to say a prayer during my wedding ceremony. It wouldn’t be fair for me to ask my vegan friends to bring a meat dish to Thanksgiving dinner. It wouldn’t be fair for me to ask my gay friends to show support to me in friendship by baking a cake for my traditional marriage rally.

These small acts of attending a wedding, saying prayer, bringing a meat dish and baking a cake are all small acts on the surface but many people would decline to do those small acts because they all mean something deeper. Out of respect for each other I would hope there is room to allow each other to respectfully decline participation in things that people find difficult for reasons of conscience.

It’s not about “getting revenge” at all. Choices have consequences. If you take a stand against a man’s family, especially one as strong as “your wife is not your wife”, you can expect him to respond. My husband wasn’t going to start a life with me and humor people who told him it was wrong, immoral, or not real. Leave and cleave, remember?

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot refuse to acknowledge that someone has started a family and at the same time want to be a part of it. This isn’t about beliefs. I’m well aware of my in-laws beliefs - they didn’t change just because they attended our wedding. It’s about actions.

 

[ineeda]

What kind of really wonderful young woman shacks up? And conversely why does it surprise or hurt you that your so who is “living in sin” doesn’t want a church wedding?

Another poster was right it isn’t a marriage. But you better go if you ever want to see your grandkids…

This does not make them “bad people”. We can offer prayers and not put unkind labels on others.

therese - I will pray for your son and fiance. I can imagine this is heartbreaking for you.

 

[WillyAL]

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot refuse to acknowledge that someone has started a family and at the same time want to be a part of it.

WOW…that there is gold. With your permission, I’m going to use that.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

This does not make them “bad people”. We can offer prayers and not put unkind labels on others.

therese - I will pray for your son and fiance. I can imagine this is heartbreaking for you.

If actions don’t count then what makes them “good people”?

 

[bitterhope]

It’s not about “getting revenge” at all. Choices have consequences. If you take a stand against a man’s family, especially one as strong as “your wife is not your wife”, you can expect him to respond. My husband wasn’t going to start a life with me and humor people who told him it was wrong, immoral, or not real. Leave and cleave, remember?

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot refuse to acknowledge that someone has started a family and at the same time want to be a part of it. This isn’t about beliefs. I’m well aware of my in-laws beliefs - they didn’t change just because they attended our wedding. It’s about actions.

You stated this extremely well. I agree completely.

There are hurt feelings in my extended family over this issue even though decades have passed in some circumstances. My parents very firmly believed that once we children chose a life partner and headed off in marriage, our family began. We were supported every step of the way and boycotting a ceremony was not allowed. They found our joy contagious and they supported our happiness. Not all our aunts, uncles and cousins did, and to this day there are hurt feelings. One aunt even disowned her daughter, but when grand babies came wanted back in her life. It hasn’t worked out as well as she would have liked unfortunately.

My parents always figured preserving a relationship and praying at all times was the best course of action. Jesus doesn’t abandon us ever so we shouldn’t abandon each other either. If conversion has a chance at all it is through love and companionship. Our parents raised us so they knew we had no doubts about their beliefs. They didn’t need to continuously remind us of them. We were raised knowing what they thought and believed and as adults it was up to us to follow their lead or make our own path. It made us respect our parents tremendously because they loved us enough to let us make our own families. They respected our choices even if we didn’t choose what they wanted for us.

This couple is actually making a step in the right direction. They are legally marrying and no longer just living together. Cutting ties now makes no sense. Hurting relationships now is a bad idea. Praying and loving unconditionally will be the only way conversion of hearts can possibly take place. I know it hurts when our kids do things that go against our faith. Avoid chasing them even farther from it.

 

[ccmcmg]

To the OP:
I am going through something similar in my family, and posted a prayer request for my situation, and included prayers for others like yourself. You can find it under prayer requests on this forum. Please feel free to join us in prayer. My situation however, involves my sister and mother, not my child. I will cross my son’s bridge if it arises.

I did visit with my priest, and I invite you to do the same. Mine advised me that we could not participate in the wedding (as readers, bridesmaid, usher, groomsman, etc), but as of right now (I’ll find out more tomorrow), we can attend. She has been away from the Church for sometime. My Catholic mother is planning the ceremony being held outdoors, and without the blessing of a priest. My mother may not understand this, and sadly, she will not listen to me explain it. I pray she talks to a priest, and perhaps he will help her out.

This does not apply to two non-Catholics getting married. But when one is a Catholic (practicing or not), and one is not, they are still expected/required to get married in the Church, or to get a dispensation to get married in another church (non-Catholic).

I’m happy it turned out well for you.
I believe family supports family when they must.

I am a child of God, a woman of God, above being a child of my parents/sister to my sister. I have to choose God first. Sometimes, doing the right thing isn’t always easy or clear to those that are affected by it…in this case, my family.

 

[Kelfa28]

I have to disagree with you about attending the wedding. The OP’s son is doing exactly what I did. My family, God bless them, stuck to their guns and did not attend my wedding. How, as Catholics, can we support a wedding that is not really a wedding?

I will say that it was hard not having my family their, but I knew going in that my choice was putting me in that position. But looking back, I could look to parents and siblings and see how firm they were in their faith by not supporting me in my decision. We must stand firm, otherwise we aren’t doing them any good by condoning what they are doing. And yes, by attending and celebrating we are condoning.

Pray your heart out for your son. I know that is what my parents and siblings did, which eventually brought me back to the church.

I’m sorry you are going through this. Sending prayers

I totally disagree.

I agree with Blue Eyed Lady.

It would be hypocritical and presumptuous to refuse to acknowledge that a family is being created, out of protest, and then expect to be an active part of that family.

That is a terrible example to set for her future DIL and the future mother of her grandchildren.

I wouldn’t want someone who was actively protesting my wedding because it wasn’t being done the way my MIL wanted it (because, face it…that is what the DIL will be thinking) to be apart of my marriage and family.

They aren’t religious…so the idea of having a Church wedding because that is what you need to do and the idea of forgiveness might not be understood or accepted.

OP…feel free to not attend the wedding but you are risking quite a lot.

Personally…my husband and I are refusing to attend the wedding of my MIL. For the record…this is her third marriage and my husband has had enough of her claiming that this marriage is “willed by God” and that Jesus approved it.

We have thought it through and have accepted the consequences that may come with it.

I just think this situation is a little too delicate and the consequences far, far more severe.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

It’s not about “getting revenge” at all. Choices have consequences. If you take a stand against a man’s family, especially one as strong as “your wife is not your wife”, you can expect him to respond. My husband wasn’t going to start a life with me and humor people who told him it was wrong, immoral, or not real. Leave and cleave, remember?

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot refuse to acknowledge that someone has started a family and at the same time want to be a part of it. This isn’t about beliefs. I’m well aware of my in-laws beliefs - they didn’t change just because they attended our wedding. It’s about actions.

I think this is very beautifully said.

As a priest, I find these situations to be so heart-wrenching for families as parents come to terms with now adult and autonomous children choosing paths very different from those their parents might have hoped – and children who find themselves more and more alienated from the Church and then from their families, too.

Tragically, even when there can be an eventual rapprochement between parents and children and grandchildren it is actually the Church that emerges as the most harmed because the actions of the parents and the portrayals of the Church by the parents can cause wounds and build walls that succeed in driving the child further from the family but also from the Church that they most wish the child would be part of. It is tragic.

I always encourage the parents, in the multi-ethnic and multi-cultural societies we more and more are surrounded by, to do as our Holy Father is inviting us…to build bridges and not to build walls.

The children should know that if they ever want to find and build a new relationship with the Church, as adults, that the door will always be open and will always be there for them. And that the priests will be here for them, to help them in any way possible. That the church is always a place where they can come.

Our Heavenly Father gives His children free will and then He respects what they do and what they choose. They create relationships and bring offspring into being and these realities exist regardless of how we may perceive the situation through the lens of faith. They are human beings and human families and they will, often enough, find God through human agents.

We look to the prodigal son and to Mary Magdalene…human beings are capable of transformations throughout their lives. They must always know they are loved and cherished by the parents who brought them into this world for that is an icon of the love of God who first loved them – and from all eternity.

I promise my prayers to the original poster and her children and all on the thread who are overcome by this sorrow in their own lives and families. May the Holy Family of Jesus, Mary and Joseph console and embrace you. May they comfort you and take into their embrace your loved ones.

 

[SilverLight]

I totally disagree.

I agree with Blue Eyed Lady.

It would be hypocritical and presumptuous to refuse to acknowledge that a family is being created, out of protest, and then expect to be an active part of that family.

That is a terrible example to set for her future DIL and the future mother of her grandchildren.

I wouldn’t want someone who was actively protesting my wedding because it wasn’t being done the way my MIL wanted it (because, face it…that is what the DIL will be thinking) to be apart of my marriage and family.

They aren’t religious…so the idea of having a Church wedding because that is what you need to do and the idea of forgiveness might not be understood or accepted.

OP…feel free to not attend the wedding but you are risking quite a lot.

Personally…my husband and I are refusing to attend the wedding of my MIL. For the record…this is her third marriage and my husband has had enough of her claiming that this marriage is “willed by God” and that Jesus approved it.

We have thought it through and have accepted the consequences that may come with it.

I just think this situation is a little too delicate and the consequences far, far more severe.

I wish you the best of luck and I agree with you.

 

[theresa]

I really appreciate all of the prayers. I know there are so many people who are experiencing this in their families and it helps me to hear how others handled it.
First let me say, there is no way I ever considered not attending this wedding. I love my son. None of his choices would ever cause me to drive a permanent wedge in our relationship. And I do love his fiance/future wife.
On the subject of scandal, I do have one minor child but she is 17. We have talked extensively about this situation ever since her brother started living with his girlfriend. All of my children know how I feel about the arrangement. As I raised my kids, we talked a lot about respecting others and not using other people for our own gain. As most people know, once a person reaches adulthood they can reject what they’ve been taught and live life the way they want.
I know that I have a few extended family members who may not attend because the wedding won’t be in the Church. I will have to be open about it and let them choose. I’ll also have to make sure my son understands this.
My son and his fiance are not “bad people”. Their views and way of living are a result of the influence of our culture on the young.
I am praying to St. Monica for her assistance and intercession.
Thank you for all of the (name removed by moderator)ut. If you have anything more to add, please do. God bless you all for taking the time to share with me. I’m thankful for this forum.

 

[Bonnie]

I always encourage the parents, in the multi-ethnic and multi-cultural societies we more and more are surrounded by, to do as our Holy Father is inviting us…to build bridges and not to build walls.

Excellent advice. Wish I had realized this years ago.

 

[Mamanurse]

I disagree. I had a Protestant aunt who (along with her family) refused to attend my Catholic wedding. Her “protest” did not make me think better of her. I loved her in spite of her actions, not because of them. Later, one of her sons married a Catholic. She didn’t handle that too well, either.

The difference I see here is that she just didn’t want to attend a Catholic wedding. She did not attend because she didn’t see your marriage as a true marriage. Right? As Catholics, we cannot support a catholic getting married by the justice of the peace or what have you because it is not seen as a marriage in Gods eyes. By attending that kind of wedding you are condoning and agreeing to their life choices, which we cannot do because in truth they are still living in sin.

Unless you aunt could not attend your wedding because of the reasons I stated, then she did it spitefully, not out of love or concern for your soul.

 

[Bonnie]

Unless you aunt could not attend your wedding because of the reasons I stated, then she did it spitefully, not out of love or concern for your soul.

She didn’t think Catholics were Christian. She was “preaching” by her actions, not being spiteful. Same as Catholics who refuse to attend non-Catholic weddings simply because the bride and/or groom used to be Catholic. The results are often the same - injured relationships.

 

[SilverLight]

To the OP:
I am going through something similar in my family, and posted a prayer request for my situation, and included prayers for others like yourself. You can find it under prayer requests on this forum. Please feel free to join us in prayer. My situation however, involves my sister and mother, not my child. I will cross my son’s bridge if it arises.

I did visit with my priest, and I invite you to do the same. Mine advised me that we could not participate in the wedding (as readers, bridesmaid, usher, groomsman, etc), but as of right now (I’ll find out more tomorrow), we can attend. She has been away from the Church for sometime. My Catholic mother is planning the ceremony being held outdoors, and without the blessing of a priest. My mother may not understand this, and sadly, she will not listen to me explain it. I pray she talks to a priest, and perhaps he will help her out.

This does not apply to two non-Catholics getting married. But when one is a Catholic (practicing or not), and one is not, they are still expected/required to get married in the Church, or to get a dispensation to get married in another church (non-Catholic).

I am a child of God, a woman of God, above being a child of my parents/sister to my sister. I have to choose God first. Sometimes, doing the right thing isn’t always easy or clear to those that are affected by it…in this case, my family.

I understand that however we must also know that there are consequences in life also. If people leave you alone after something and do not return it’s sad but sometimes that happens. I’m not trying to be rude that’s just what happens sometimes and I am the kind of person who sticks by family. I am not going to lose another family due to a decision in my life.

I have no siblings so I would not lose any in a situation like this but I would be hurt if they did not show up. A lot of people have done damage by doing “the right thing and for good intentions” I believe in God to I’m just not like all others I guess.

Have a nice day.

 

[ccmcmg]

I understand that however we must also know that there are consequences in life also. If people leave you alone after something and do not return it’s sad but sometimes that happens. I’m not trying to be rude that’s just what happens sometimes and I am the kind of person who sticks by family. I am not going to lose another family due to a decision in my life.

I have no siblings so I would not lose any in a situation like this but I would be hurt if they did not show up. A lot of people have done damage by doing “the right thing and for good intentions” I believe in God to I’m just not like all others I guess.

Have a nice day.

Thanks.

I realize your position, and wish it’s one I could take; however, I cannot, if I wish to follow God and the Church. We are attending the wedding, as of this writing, but will not be part of it, in the wedding party. I love my family with my whole heart. Loving someone doesn’t always mean accepting or welcoming their choices, especially when it’s the most important thing to you: God.

I do realize that I could lose family over this. It hurts. Deeply. However, it would be after much prayer and conversations with God and our priest (in person) before we were not to attend any such ceremony. We have a niece who has said she is homosexual. If it comes to a ceremony, it would be difficult not to wish her well (because we love her, and always wish her well, in life), but when it comes down to it, it’s God I have to answer to for eternity, and not anyone on earth.

 

[MomaMary8]

A friend recently went through a similar situation. Her son chose to get married outside of the Catholic church and had an outdoor ceremony. The friend attended the wedding, but before the day’s activities began, she went to Mass. She decided if her son was not going to bring God to the wedding ceremony, she would. She received Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament and carried Him with her in her heart through out the day.

Sometimes, as moms, all we can do is pray for our kids.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Seeing grandkids? Probably not, if you refuse to acknowledge the wedding of their parents. Would we spend the time and money traveling to see them on holidays? Unlikely, since both sides of my family would really like to see us and vacation time and money is a finite resource. Elderly parents ever coming to live with us? Nope. We would support them financially as much as we could, but they wouldn’t be welcome to live with us as family. Attending his brothers’ weddings? No way. Could you think of anything more humiliating?

Our take was that we’ll love them, and we’ll always have obligations towards them. But if they’re going to make a big show about not approving of or acknowledging our family, then they simply don’t have to be a part of it. But we weren’t going to let anyone disparage our marriage and then go on as though nothing happened.

I completely disagree with that approach about “seeing grandkids.” While I know later in the thread you have stated that this is not a form of revenge, refusing to allow people to see their grandkids is a highly emotional and illogical response to an action that is not necessarily “making a big show.” I suppose it depends on the way the non-attendee approaches not attending. If they were to say, “I’m boycotting your wedding, I don’t respect that this couple is a couple, and I am going to make a stink about it to people” then yes, you would have a major respect problem. But if a parent said, “I love you as people and as a couple, but I don’t believe this wedding ceremony will create a valid marriage and therefore I can’t in good conscience attend, smile, clap, cheer, and accept congratulations for something that I believe is not actually occurring. So while I respect your choice to do it this way, I have to stay home that day,” then I believe you would have an obligation to respect their decision, even if it is frustrating. Aren’t we do respect each other’s freedom to follow their conscience?

But what does that have to do with starting a family? I think premarital sex is wrong, but if an unmarried woman has a baby, I acknowledge that she has started a family. Therefore, if an invalidly married couple has children, I would also acknowledge that they have started a family. One doesn’t need the sacrament of marriage to have a family, one needs the sacrament of marriage to be married. The two are not exactly the same thing.

So let’s move on to the day when your child asks you why she doesn’t ever see Grandma. It is a pretty weak answer to say, “well, Grandma didn’t agree with us getting married on the beach and didn’t attend the wedding, so we won’t ever let you see her.” If I were the grandchild, I’d be pretty upset that one disagreement about a wedding would preclude any relationship at all.

Now if Grandma said that she would take any chance she got to teach the grandchildren that the parents were wrong? Or if Grandma didn’t respect you as a person? Or was undermining your relationship with your husband? Then I would understand that need. But if that grandparent is NOT setting out to harm the grandchild (in the form of insulting or undermining or indoctrination etc.), but just couldn’t attend a particular event, then why would there be a need to keep them separate? There isn’t, other than punishment.

Wanting to spend less time with them? Reasonable.
Choosing not to spend tons of money on plane tickets? Understandable.
Actively preventing them from ever seeing their grandchildren? Emotional/Punishment. Actively preventing grandchildren from a connection with the harmless older generation? Big bummer for them and potential for backfire when the kids get old enough to resent it.

 

[SilverLight]

Thanks.

I realize your position, and wish it’s one I could take; however, I cannot, if I wish to follow God and the Church. We are attending the wedding, as of this writing, but will not be part of it, in the wedding party. I love my family with my whole heart. Loving someone doesn’t always mean accepting or welcoming their choices, especially when it’s the most important thing to you: God.

I do realize that I could lose family over this. It hurts. Deeply. However, it would be after much prayer and conversations with God and our priest (in person) before we were not to attend any such ceremony. We have a niece who has said she is homosexual. If it comes to a ceremony, it would be difficult not to wish her well (because we love her, and always wish her well, in life), but when it comes down to it, it’s God I have to answer to for eternity, and not anyone on earth.

Well that’s your choice I wish you luck. I have to say though that we do have to answer to people on Earth sometimes though God is important but there are other things that are for me also.

 

[Lea101]

I had a friend who wanted to marry at the beach. I told her that couldn’t be a Catholic wedding and she went “oh well, just get another christian priest or someone else to do it”. Yikes. I can imagine how frustrating/distressing it is. Good luck

 

[Dorothy]

Thanks.

I realize your position, and wish it’s one I could take; however, I cannot, if I wish to follow God and the Church. We are attending the wedding, as of this writing, but will not be part of it, in the wedding party. I love my family with my whole heart. Loving someone doesn’t always mean accepting or welcoming their choices, especially when it’s the most important thing to you: God.

I do realize that I could lose family over this. It hurts. Deeply. However, it would be after much prayer and conversations with God and our priest (in person) before we were not to attend any such ceremony. We have a niece who has said she is homosexual. If it comes to a ceremony, it would be difficult not to wish her well (because we love her, and always wish her well, in life), but when it comes down to it, it’s God I have to answer to for eternity, and not anyone on earth.

Thank you for your post.

It is obviously filled with love without compromise.

This is what our Lord meant when he said “I have come to bring a sword, not peace.” Sometimes there is that sword of division, when we put our Lord on the pedestal. He is the one we answer to.