Getting Married: Thoughts and *Vent*

[jmcrae]

Well there are some boomer parents who are just hoping to have the kids leave the nest sometime before the age of 30.

Whatever happened to the good old days, when your Mom celebrated your 18th birthday by throwing all your stuff out on to the lawn and renting out your room?

 

[valient_Lucy]

Well, what an interesting thread.

Well, I do what I can, though I must admit, I didn’t know I was going to be stirring the pot quite this much. But it would be boring if I didn’t every once in a while.

However, I do want to answer some of the points that others made.

1 *Am I arguing that Gen X and Y should not be held to the Church’s teachings on sexual purity?
*
NO! Truth is truth, no matter the condition of the world.

2 *The Baby Boomers also lived in a sexually saturated society. *
That is very true, and I apologize if my post seemed to deny that. However, I do think that there is an important difference in the fact that during the 60’s, the parents and adults still had the belief and expectation that their children would be virgins, or at least not live together before marriage. Today, the adults do not have such expectations for their children, hence giving their children condoms and taking them to get children to birth control pills. One of my coworkers last year told me that she hoped her son never marries a virgin, since she would invariably cheat on him later on in life. Free love was revolutionary in the 1960’s. In the modern world, the Church’s call to chastity is truly counter-revolutionary. Peter Kreeft argues that the sexual teachings of the church are attacked as none of her other teachings are today. While no one questions the idea of killing and stealing being bad, the world believes that the teachings of sexual purity are wrong, as well as downright impossible.

3 What is the solution, marrying young or living as the world does?
What is so terrible about marrying young? While the average age of marriage in the past was still in the early to mid-twenties, previous societies did not make it impossible for people in their early 20’s (or even late teens) to marry. Now, I am not arguing that EVERYONE should marry at that age. What I am doing is wondering why our society is making it very difficult for those who wish to marry young to do so. Our culture demands higher education, even from those who have no interest in it, and the college system is very unfriendly for young married people, especially those who might have children.

Frederica Matthews Green says it better than I can. "The average first marriage now involves a twenty-five-year-old bride and a twenty-seven-year-old groom. I’m intrigued by how patently unnatural that is. God designed our bodies to desire to mate much earlier, and through most of history cultures have accommodated that desire by enabling people to wed by their late teens or early twenties. People would postpone marriage till their late twenties only in cases of economic disaster or famine — times when people had to save up in order to be able to marry.

Young people are not too immature to marry, unless we tell them they are. Fifty years ago, when the average bride was twenty, the divorce rate was half what it is now, because the culture encouraged and sustained marriage. But if we communicate to young people that we think they’re naturally incapable of making a marriage work, they will surely meet our expectation. In fact, I have a theory that late marriage contributes to an increased divorce rate. During those lingering years of unmarried adulthood, young people may not be getting married, but they’re still falling in love. They fall in love, and break up, and undergo terrible pain, but find that with time they get over it. This is true even if they remain chaste. By the time these young people marry, they may have had many opportunities to learn how to walk away from a promise. They’ve been training for divorce.

Late marriage means fighting the design of our bodies, and that’s never a fight we can win. "

Once again, unlike her, I’m not arguing that everyone should marry young. But I am arguing that perhaps it is unwise of our culture to encourage everyone to delay marriage until their mid-20’s, and equally unwise for the Church to accept this as a wise decision.

 

[3GirlsRUs]

Each generation has its hand in the mix, of course.

I think sometimes, some of us X’ers (the pro-life ones anyway) get to thinking about how our parent’s generation kept OUR generation small with abortion and birth control pills. I think that is one of the most horrible things…I read a book called Generations At Work a few years ago during my MBA program. Now, these aren’t exact…but can give you a picture…

Boomers 50 million
Xers 20 million
Y’ers…they figure they’ll be bigger than Xers.

Xers and Yers have both been birthed/raised by Boomer parents,the Xers are the kids of the older Boomers who married young, got divorced, remarried, etc. The Yers are the children of younger boomers AND the children from older Boomers’ marriages. I have a younger half-sister and half-brother who are Yers…my mom and dad were “older” boomers (born in 1946).

You can’t deny that Xers were really the first kids to be “latchkey” kids, go through divorce at the rate they did, etc. etc. We’re the first generation in which MOST of our parents were dual income earners. Yes, I know there were segments of the population that had both parents working for many years before that…but I’m talking about the MAJORITY of households had mom and dad working.

Or…in my case…we were latchkey kids because Dad ditched us after he finished Law School to have his perfect life with his second wife…left us living in our shack and left my mom to put herself through nursing school and try and raise the 5 of us. Ok…to be fair, the child support checks were always there and on time…but he lived 1500 miles away and I saw him maybe 1 time a year if we were lucky…oh yeah and that’s cuz his new wife probably insisted on seeing her folks who lived in the same city we did. Part of me thinks I’d never have seen my dad those years except she wanted to see her family at Christmas.

Oh yeah, and we Xers…we’re not bitter or anything.

 

[CapaxDei]

I sometimes wonder if Generation X-ers, in the next 10 years, will start lining up old boomers and shooting them. We boomers are the most self-absorbed, spoiled rotten, whining generation the US has ever produced.

You think it will take us that long? :ehh:

 

[valient_Lucy]

I guess something that I should point out is that not only is our culture in favor of pre-marital sex and cohabitation, but it’s also distinctly anti-marriage. This adds further pressure.

I also want to point out that, as someone else said, we have distorted views of marriage and singleness as well. I think perhaps we (myself included) should encourage each other to find the state in life in which we are called to serve God, and to do what we can to enter into that state.

 

[JimG]

I think sometimes, some of us X’ers (the pro-life ones anyway) get to thinking about how our parent’s generation kept OUR generation small with abortion and birth control pills.

Yes, having come from a family with five brothers and sisters, it now seems strange to me to see families with only two children. Brothers and sisters can be nice. Better even that ipods and sports.

 

[Strummer]

What the boomers “did” in the grand scheme is not something many on here would like: they asserted the dignity of the individual and they outright questioned authority. Ooo, scary! While some might condemn such brashness as anarchistic, it was this very attitude that opened the door to reveal the corruption of the Nixon campaign and administration. Boomers did much to return the government to the People—the way the Framers intended. This also empowered the “Moral Majority” (largely made up of boomers as well) to become engaged in the system as well.

Conveniently setting aside the positive strides women and minorities have made in society (thanks to boomers) so that we can focus on just one, tiny area (sex), is by definition narrow thinking. I might add as well that it is utterly ridiculous to ascribe to an entire generation of people the same thoughts and morals. Do you really believe that every American between the ages of 43 to 61 think and believe the same? No, this is an example of very lazy thinking which, rather than truly analyze the data, is satisfied by looking for a scapegoat. Society is what it is. Looking for blame is just another way of avoiding one’s own responsibility.

 

[Ardent_Fire]

Hey Lucy. I’m getting married this year too.

All I can say is, I’m from the tail end of Generation X (born in 76) and the idea of being a parent raising children and being responsible for souls in the CURRENT and FUTURE moral landscape really SCARES me sometimes.

But I don’t really blame the Boomers specifically. I guess I just blame general flaws present in humanity. I’d almost say “human nature” but I guess that’s theologically wrong – being that we are actually intrinsically good stained by original sin. But you know what I mean.

I find discussing generations and the trends of each and what we associate with events, memories and childhood to be really fascinating.

Recently I was at the hairdresser’s and a trainee was drying my hair and we started talking about the movie “Gremlins.” I said “Oh you were probably just a baby or a toddler then so you don’t remember much of the 80s” and she said “I wasn’t alive in the 80s at all! I was born in 1990!”

:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:

 

[valient_Lucy]

Actually, I’m GenX and I’d agree that my generation has a tendency towards whining and lack of ambition, sense of direction and self-discipline. Maybe its cable TV and video games. I dunno - I never had either growing up and don’t regret it.

My message to my peers: Get roomates and get outta Momma’s kitchen!

Or better yet, come to Korea and teach. Granted, you have to be careful otherwise you’ll end up with a dictatorial boss who could cheat you out of your wages and a glorified babysitter.

But simply by getting a job in Korea, I quadrupled my monthly income, and I can live very comfortably on two-thirds of it, and save the rest. I’ve also gotten to take an extended vacation from the United States and my family.

 

[Daddums]

What the boomers “did” in the grand scheme is not something many on here would like: they asserted the dignity of the individual and they outright questioned authority. Ooo, scary!

For those not of my generation let me translate this for you. We ignored the sixth commandment and we trampled and burned the fourth.

Daddums

 

[valient_Lucy]

Whatever happened to the good old days, when your Mom celebrated your 18th birthday by throwing all your stuff out on to the lawn and renting out your room?

The irony is, now some parents try to keep their kids living at home. One of my high school friends married his college sweetheart. He was 22, she was 21. His mother was very upset and thought he was too young to marry rolleyes: ) and had been hoping he would move back in with her when he finished college. She told him that after a year living with her, he could “graduate” by moving in with his grandmother.

My mom’s normal, but even so, she told me recently that taking me to the airport when I left for Korea was one of the worst days of her life. She cried the whole way back and actually drugged herself to deal with it. She told me that the sensation was like “tearing flesh” and that it was the worst pain she’d felt since she and dad divorced. I mean, I was sad to leave her, but I haven’t really missed her that much. Plus, we e-mail once every other week and we talk on the phone once a month so it’s not like we don’t keep in touch.

 

[gmarie21]

Boomers did much to return the government to the People—the way the Framers intended. This also empowered the “Moral Majority” (largely made up of boomers as well) to become engaged in the system as well.

And now, the same boomers in power are trying to take power away from the people (from freedom of speech to right to bear arms to some proposing taking more money through higher taxes to pay for a small minority). Talk about changing one’s tune

 

[JimG]

Heck, back then, women’s incomes weren’t allowed to be factored into the mortgage b/c if they became pregnant, that income would cease to exist, so loans were only approved based on one income.

Yes, I was working in mortgage banking at the time, and recall my uneasiness at actually counting the wife’s income in underwriting the loan when the rules changed! Even at that, we had to keep increasing the allowable debt to income ratios in order for people to qualify. We won’t even discuss subprimes.

 

[Scanner]

Some random thoughts.

I’m not going to be on the fence about this. I agree with the sentiment that marriages should be “arranged” earlier than what the average is today.

It is patently ridiculous to suggest a person remain celibate (and fertile) for years and years on end (nothing wrong with a few years).

Some cultures view sex as part of the intrinsic health of an individual and I think there’s some validity in that. Not to say that I think a Catholic Priest is choosing an unhealthy lifestyle but sexual intimacy is healthy for many reasons and the sooner a marriage can be obtained, the better.

College is all well and good but why can’t a married couple navigate their way through?

As far as kids living at home. . .you know. . .again, I’m a “World Culture” kind of guy and always considering other cultures.

In Asia, many of the same families live in the same house for generations and generations. Imagine that - they just add bedrooms, not go out and buy a McMansion.

The family unit is central. Of course, no parent wants a “mooch” but I am not so certain that this expectation that every young’en has to go off and “American Homestead” a family with 6 kids and some goats somewhere is entirely a valid demand.

I certainly had “wanderlust” at age 18; I wanted to leave home and go off to college. And I did. At age 21, I packed up my Nissan Sentra with all my wordly possessions and I moved 800 miles away. But not everyone does.

It’s part of being young but not entirely representative of it.

I wonder how charitable we are being when we give our 18 year olds a handshake and boot on the behind on their 18 birthdays saying, “It’s for their own good.”

Who’s good? As a Gen. Xer I won’t expect that from my children.

Again, in Asia. . .that would be unconsciousable and run countercurrent to the value they place on family.

 

[sanctamaria17]

People talk about marrying young, families, etc., but I think we need to realize that not everyone who marries is going to marry young. A lot of my friends are devout Catholics or Evangelicals and we all agree that we want to marry later. There’s no way we could get married at 18-22.

Also, college isn’t just about academics. I’ve learned so much about myself from going to college. I left for a place far from home and it’s been nothing but good for me. I made real friends who will always be in my life, finally was forced to deal with issues that I swept under the rug, learned how to reach out to people, really learned about love, and finally realized my limits as to what I can and can’t do. I’ve also made friends who share my faith, finally, and it is amazing! I’ve been able to get involved with things I’ve been wanting to get involved with.

All I can say is, college can be a good thing. And not all colleges are the same. Mine has an international focus, another I looked at was “Great Books”, another was a state school, another was Jesuit, and another was FUS. Honestly, it’s not going to be the dealbreaker for a marriage either. My mom went away to school and she still married my dad at 21.

 

[Ardent_Fire]

I would have been open to marrying sooner if it was timed that way. I think for many young Catholics in this day and age, it’s also a lot harder to find a mate who shares or at least respects your values that you’d want to bother dating in the first place – let alone finding someone who is marriage material. My fiance and I will both be 32 when we get married. A lot of that was due to timing and circumstances rather than choice.

 

[Norseman82]

I think for many young Catholics in this day and age, it’s also a lot harder to find a mate who shares or at least respects your values that you’d want to bother dating in the first place – let alone finding someone who is marriage material.

You must be a hammer, because you hit the nail right on the head.

Yep, those of us who were teens in the late 70’s early '80s have no idea what sexual promiscuity was like

Remember, we were in that slot between the free love 60/70s and the Safe Sex generation.

Every generation thinks that the old folks have no idea what it was like, but, in reality - sin has been sin has been sin has been TEMPTING since the garden.

True, but in times past society had stigmas that acted as a brake to promiscuous behavior, and even though the behavior was there, it was frowned upon/condemned and there was still a sense of shame and mortal sin and fear of hell. Example: back in the early 1980s, I still remember that cohabitation was met with gasps and head-shaking; now, it seems that the people who do not cohabitate are the abnormal ones.

 

[CHCatholic]

Reminds me of a co-worker:
“I’ve never waited more than a week to sleep with a girlfriend”

Thats sickening.

 

[jmcrae]

Reminds me of a co-worker:
“I’ve never waited more than a week to sleep with a girlfriend”

Thats sickening.

Not to mention stupid and dangerous. I wonder how many STDs he is carrying around?

 

[sanctamaria17]

My parents didn’t have a problem with me leaving. They love me to death and miss me but they want me to find my own independence. They’re very proud of me, because college has opened me to new things and changed me in many ways. They knew it was time.