Getting Married Young

[RWMorris]

Seriously, no one gets a degree thinking the hubby might die before them and they would have that to fall back on to support themselves and whatever kids might have. Not even in the back of a young girl’s mind.

Ummm…I did.

 

[Rach620]

IMHO I don’t think I could get a masters or PHD and just drop off the face of the earth once I had children. Catholic school is expensive and even though I worked there, I had to pay full price for both of my children. I also taught CCD for several years.

Who says you have to drop off the face of the earth? I’m not one who proposes working motherhood as an easy route by any means, but certainly someone with an upper-level degree can find ways in which to put it to good use and keep their mind active, even when their days are filled with diapers.

 

[Rach620]

Seriously, how many women consider a degree a necessary stage to their “fulfillment”. Not many. SAHM wanna-be’s basically believe one thing will “fulfill” them - a husband and a bunch of kids. I know a pile of good Catholic girls who are in college, and I guarantee you that if Mr. Right came along and swept them off their feet, they’d drop their program like a hot potato. In fact, knew a girl who was heck-bent on getting a nursing degree, then this guy came along and she was talking about maybe not going through with it or dropping out if things got serious enough.

I consider an education–note, not necessarily a degree–a necessary stage of my fulfillment. God has made me with the mind I have and with the interests I have. I am fulfilled by engaging the ‘deep’ questions and the great books in class discussions, my own study, and lots of writing. My own personal journey of “faith seeking understanding”–something which I’m sure someone hoping to study at Franciscan University of Steubenville can certainly understand–has brought me great personal fulfillment and has prepared me to give of myself–body, mind, and soul–to my future husband.

What will fulfill me is not just having a husband and a bunch of kids attached to me. What fulfills is the love of God. Union with Him. God draws me to Himself in many ways–most strongly through my future husband (for the gift of myself to Him, *Gaudium et Spes *tells us, will allow me to truly find myself) and through the children we will hopefully be blessed to have. The love of God is also intimately present in my studies, where I try to engage the deepest truths of our human existence.

Who are you to tell me that if I truly had a vocation to marriage and family I would be willing to drop another entire aspect of my vocation–that of a student and learner?

You have a deeply flawed understanding of the purpose of education. It is not merely utilitarian–it really can enrich one’s (intellectual) life in ways which married life simply does not provide. This doesn’t make it better in any way (whatsoever!) than married life, just different and valuable in its own right.

 

[Rach620]

Don’t mean to be a jerk or anything, but you people are none too knowledgeable about the expenses one accumulates in getting a degree at Franciscan University of Steubenville.

Most Master’s and PhD programs in my field (political science) end up being fully-funded for the duration or for the first 5 years. After the 5 year point, you must look for non-university funding or TA more often, but grad school is not meant to be a big hit on one’s pocketbook.

Law school and med school are a different story, because those professions will bring in the big bucks quite quickly.

That said, I am also looking at MTS (Master’s of Theological Studies) programs, and wouldn’t think to spend tens of thousands on that, either. The University of Notre Dame has a fully-funded MTS program that offers a stipend and TA positions. Steubenville is not the only ‘good’ theology program out there…

 

[Rach620]

You were “blessed” to have your parents fit the bill for everything? That didn’t teach you much responsibility, did it? More secular mentalities entering the Church - let’s just hand it to our kids on a silver platter. I wouldn’t marry a girl who had her parents give her everything under the sun either without having to earn it - she’d most probably be a spoiled brat. I ought to know - all kinds of girls like that in this society today.

I’m not going to comment on the ruder points of your post.

I count my blessings each and every day that my parents have paid for my undergraduate education. I would not have been able to attend my university without their financial support, and I have never for one minute taken it for granted. You can ‘earn’ your education without working for the cash–that’s what I have done my whole life, working hard in school to get the grades to get me here. I have made the most of my education, have been on the Dean’s List every semester and have been very involved in activities on campus. I have grown in my faith and have found a wonderful community of great young Catholics who I know will go on to become leaders in their fields.

If you think it is a ‘secular mentality’ for parents to finance their children’s college educations, then perhaps that is your prerogative. But don’t be so quick to assume that it does not teach responsibility. I have learned independence and maturity during my time here, and have assumed leadership positions among my peers. Heck, I’m getting married in a few months–and no one who knows us has suggested that it is an ‘irresponsible’ decision. Tuition at the top universities in America is on average over the $40K/year mark. For some, it’s not worth it. For those who can handle the workload and who will make the most of it, it most certainly is.

 

[Rach620]

It takes extreme patience and will power, but I really think it’s best. I’m not looking either, and God has cooperated by not dropping a girl in my lap that has swept me off my feet.

I guess God just doesn’t ‘cooperate’ with everyone, Michael.

 

[nodito]

Seriously, no one gets a degree thinking the hubby might die before them and they would have that to fall back on to support themselves and whatever kids might have. Not even in the back of a young girl’s mind.

That’s not true. It was a big factor in my decision to go to grad school.

 

[bookgirl32]

Who says you have to drop off the face of the earth? I’m not one who proposes working motherhood as an easy route by any means, but certainly someone with an upper-level degree can find ways in which to put it to good use and keep their mind active, even when their days are filled with diapers.

Thank you!

 

[JessHav]

My dh had our first the first yr we were married. I was 22 and in my last yr of undergrad. I then became a GA with a new little baby! I always felt bad for women who waited to have children and then were forced to choose between staying home with their kids and the career they worked so hard to earn. Look at all the stories of women trying to choose.

My dh and I never had to adjust our married life much either. We opened our hearts and home to a child so early in the marriage, that we never experienced what my sil did. She waited (using NFP) until they had the right sized home, etc but I’ve really watched her struggle with missing “her freedom.”

As far as friends as support. That part was difficult. Its hard being the married couple with a child in college. We ended up hanging out with a completely different crowd by the end of our college days. It was a mutual decision, really. Our old friends life style were not the same as ours. The benefit of a baby though, is you get to meet other parents of babies by the virtue of the places you tend to visit with babies (library, parks, play dates, church groups, etc)

I view my degree as good insurance. I’m glad I put the effort forward so I could have something to “fall back on.” But I would never trade my experience for the world! Talk with your fiancee a bit more about the issue. Your fears are very reasonable, but I’m sure with prayer, you will be able to come to an agreement. Kids at a “young” age and early in a marriage is very do-able!!

Ditto! It is very doable as we are doing it right now! (Almost identical situation.)

 

[Jessamy]

Just want to invite the people still debating the value of education, especially for women who may or may not work, over to the thread I created called “the value of education.” I made it since this thread has become so derailed from its original topic.

 

[Michael_Saint]

I guess God just doesn’t ‘cooperate’ with everyone, Michael.

Wrong - you have it backwards. People don’t always “cooperate” with God. There is a difference.

The lack of cooperation usually comes when the hormones and lack of self-control overwhelm good common sense and the will of God.

The most common thing in “discernment” is this: we WANT what WE want, and we “convince” ourselves that our desires are really GOD’S WILL after all! Common problem - in fact, done it myself.

 

[bookgirl32]

Wrong - you have it backwards. People don’t always “cooperate” with God. There is a difference.

The lack of cooperation usually comes when the hormones and lack of self-control overwhelm good common sense and the will of God.

The most common thing in “discernment” is this: we WANT what WE want, and we “convince” ourselves that our desires are really GOD’S WILL after all! Common problem - in fact, done it myself.

You sound like you’re assuming that humans and God’s will are NEVER in alignment. Some of us actually want what’s good for us, what God wants for us, just b/c we want it. In fact I’d say all of us, at one time or another, have. Discernment is NOT a constant pushing down of your own will in expectation that God’s will be completely opposite.

 

[Zahmir]

You were “blessed” to have your parents fit the bill for everything? That didn’t teach you much responsibility, did it? More secular mentalities entering the Church - let’s just hand it to our kids on a silver platter. I wouldn’t marry a girl who had her parents give her everything under the sun either without having to earn it - she’d most probably be a spoiled brat. I ought to know - all kinds of girls like that in this society today.

Michael Saint,

I can’t stress enough how blessed we are to be able to begin our married life earlier rather than, following your advice, waiting until we are 35 and half-dead to finally get married and have kids.

We are blessed to be able to go to Notre Dame, where I can say, quite easily, that I am who I am because of my increased understanding of the faith and a closer relationship to God, both of which are the direct result of my education.

Before you hold your late-blooming example up for everyone else to waste their lives following, I suggest you remain a little more open-hearted to those striving to live out their faith as best as they have discerned by the grace of God.

At the very least, there is no reason to call other people, with whom you have had no direct experience, spoiled just because their parents worked hard.

 

[ragdollheart]

I’m not going to comment on the ruder points of your post.

I count my blessings each and every day that my parents have paid for my undergraduate education. I would not have been able to attend my university without their financial support, and I have never for one minute taken it for granted. You can ‘earn’ your education without working for the cash–that’s what I have done my whole life, working hard in school to get the grades to get me here. I have made the most of my education, have been on the Dean’s List every semester and have been very involved in activities on campus. I have grown in my faith and have found a wonderful community of great young Catholics who I know will go on to become leaders in their fields.

If you think it is a ‘secular mentality’ for parents to finance their children’s college educations, then perhaps that is your prerogative. But don’t be so quick to assume that it does not teach responsibility. I have learned independence and maturity during my time here, and have assumed leadership positions among my peers. Heck, I’m getting married in a few months–and no one who knows us has suggested that it is an ‘irresponsible’ decision. Tuition at the top universities in America is on average over the $40K/year mark. For some, it’s not worth it. For those who can handle the workload and who will make the most of it, it most certainly is.

I agree. I am blessed because my mum helps me out with college. She ensures that I have enough money to buy necessities like shampoo and gas. At the same time, I work in the cafe on campus. And it’s not like I’m irresponsible with money.

College is also really important in teaching independence and maturity, like Rach points out.

And I am never ungrateful to my mother. I am very grateful that she is so supportive of me. I work very hard now, and I did in high school, to get good grades – and it’s mostly my grades that got me here. Tuition is like, $35,000, and I’ll only have $4,500 a year in loans to pay off after school. The rest of it? Grants and scholarships.

It is all a case-by-case basis. You have to understand that not all people and not all situations are the same.

 

[MooCowSteph]

You sound like you’re assuming that humans and God’s will are NEVER in alignment. Some of us actually want what’s good for us, what God wants for us, just b/c we want it. In fact I’d say all of us, at one time or another, have. Discernment is NOT a constant pushing down of your own will in expectation that God’s will be completely opposite.

Actually, he seems to be saying that God’s will and human’s will are only in allignment when it’s what he (saint michael) thinks is best for everyone. I don’t think God intends for everyone to wait until after college is finished and loans paid off to meet that “special someone”, judging my the many happy marriages around me.

 

[bluerose]

My Dad used to say that if everyone waited for the “perfect” time to a) get married, b) have a baby, or c) buy a house or car, we’d all be single, homeless pedestrians living in a society with zero population growth.

Only God’s time is perfect, even when it looks like the worst possible time to us. I was advised to wait 5-10 years to get married. Why? Because my husband-to-be was fighting stage-IV Hodgkins’ disease (barely in remission when he popped the question) and it “might be a good idea to wait until we were ‘sure’ he was going to be okay”. Right. If I had listened to those good-intentioned friends, we’d only be celebrating our 10th or 15th anniversary this year instead of our 20th. What’s to say that I might have been the one to not survive to our wedding day? What if we’d waited and had walked out of the church and I’d been hit by a car, had a heart attack or brain aneurysm, or been shot in a random act of violence?

Sometimes the voice of reason can’t drown out the whisper of God. Thank God!

 

[bookgirl32]

My Dad used to say that if everyone waited for the “perfect” time to a) get married, b) have a baby, or c) buy a house or car, we’d all be single, homeless pedestrians living in a society with zero population growth.

Only God’s time is perfect, even when it looks like the worst possible time to us. I was advised to wait 5-10 years to get married. Why? Because my husband-to-be was fighting stage-IV Hodgkins’ disease (barely in remission when he popped the question) and it “might be a good idea to wait until we were ‘sure’ he was going to be okay”. Right. If I had listened to those good-intentioned friends, we’d only be celebrating our 10th or 15th anniversary this year instead of our 20th. What’s to say that I might have been the one to not survive to our wedding day? What if we’d waited and had walked out of the church and I’d been hit by a car, had a heart attack or brain aneurysm, or been shot in a random act of violence?

Sometimes the voice of reason can’t drown out the whisper of God. Thank God!

 

[Michael_Saint]

At the very least, there is no reason to call other people, with whom you have had no direct experience, spoiled just because their parents worked hard.

Just because a parent “works hard” and puts millions in the bank account, that doesn’t mean that parent should give their children everything under the sun.

It is important for every child - no matter how rich their parents are - to learn responsibility and to work and earn some things in life. Would you honestly disagree?

 

[Michael_Saint]

I can’t stress enough how blessed we are to be able to begin our married life earlier rather than, following your advice, waiting until we are 35 and half-dead to finally get married and have kids.

Ouch! Personal insult - but I’m not really concerned about that one. I guess I dish it out so I should be able to take it.

“35 and half-dead”. Hmmm, funny thing - that is the EXACT age that the Little Flower’s father was when he got married! Yep, a man on his way to beatification, who loved life, loved God, and had a fruitful marriage with four girls he gave away to religious life - one of them among the top 100 saints of all time, and one more who is on her way to beatification too.

And St. Gianna Molla was 33 when she married, and her husband, I believe, was in his 40s. “waiting until we’re 35 and half-dead”, hey? Wow, slamming the Saints! Not a wise idea.

My belief? God wants more people to devote more of their single years to his service, and we are too selfish and cannot exercise the proper self-control to do it. Does God call some to marriage at 21 or 22? No doubt about it. Does God call a lot of people to spend more devoting their time and energy in His service in single life, but who end up marrying young instead because their desires override His will? I think this is far more common.

Abraham waited until he was 99 to give birth to Isaac. How “blessed” was he? Actually, Hebrews 11:12 uses the same word for Abraham when it talked about the birth of Isaac - that Abraham was “half-dead”. Except - the author of the Hebrews uses this as a COMPLIMENT.

So thanks for the compliment, Zahmir. I will be “35 and half dead” when I get married - sort of in imitation of our father in faith, Abraham.

Richard McBrien and his fellow theologians were never that strong on Scripture - your post is proof of this.

 

[Michael_Saint]

I agree. I am blessed because my mum helps me out with college. She ensures that I have enough money to buy necessities like shampoo and gas. At the same time, I work in the cafe on campus. And it’s not like I’m irresponsible with money.

College is also really important in teaching independence and maturity, like Rach points out.

And I am never ungrateful to my mother. I am very grateful that she is so supportive of me. I work very hard now, and I did in high school, to get good grades – and it’s mostly my grades that got me here. Tuition is like, $35,000, and I’ll only have $4,500 a year in loans to pay off after school. The rest of it? Grants and scholarships.

It is all a case-by-case basis. You have to understand that not all people and not all situations are the same.

I think it’s great your mom helps out - my mom did the same. But though it is good that they chip in, they shouldn’t pay the whole she-bang, and they shouldn’t lavish a bunch of other stuff on you, like free rent, a new car, etc. Balance is key - pay a portion, but force your children to work to pay the rest.