Getting rid of kneelers

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tafan2 said:
This is a point that both modern and traditional church architects stress. Materials are very important. Carpet is simply not suited to a Catholic Church.
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I don’t know about this, but I will say that hard surfaces were definitely preferably in the era before electric service was standard in church buildings. Ideally, you should be able to project your voice to a thousand people from the pulpit, and the soft surfaces aren’t good for that
 
When I can go to Mass, I tend to sit all the time. I had a major back injury years ago and standing for more than a few minutes without walking is way too painful. I would be able to kneel on hardwood flooring before standing much less painful.
 
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exnihilo said:
My wife and I actually hate the kneelers my parish has and don’t use them. They are narrow and hit your knee in a place that will cause knee pain and stiffness if you use them often enough. I think they probably concentrate pressure on the patella tendon.

It is far more comfortable for us to kneel on the floor. The floor in the pew areas is carpeted using a very low pile carpet. Kneeling on tile or, sadly, concrete is less comfortable for me over time. I can’t say I’d be as enthusiastic to kneel on a really hard surface for a long time.
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It’s true that some parishes have terrible kneelers. I have bad knees, and my parish has horrible kneelers.

One of the best things a parish can do is invest is GOOD kneelers.

Not some carpet which is going to be a disaster to clean & expensive
 
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I suspect that carpeting is generally seen more in the U.S. – most other countries, especially ones where carpeting in homes isn’t common, you generally don’t see them in the churches, either. For allergy reasons, I hate carpets. Personally I also don’t think it’s a good setting when trying to respectfully clean any spilled consecrated wine or bread.

In my experience, the larger churches have also tended to keep the kneelers in. I’ve seen a couple of places in the UK and Sweden where they had modern seating and took out the kneelers, but this was more in the case where it was a small local parish in a couple of places. Generally the two places in particular where I saw this were places that were already pretty “progressive” in liturgical style and attitude as well.

Fortunately there are other churches in my area (UK) that are more traditional and not only have the kneelers but even use the communion rail – which is my preference. The most common thing I experience is no carpeting, usage of kneelers but no communion rail.
 
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OraLabora said:
Gregorian will never ever make a comeback if you carpet churches. I’ve sung in hard-surfaced churches, in churches with lots of carpeting (mostly in the sanctuary), and in a former chapel converted into a concert venue, where acoustic panels were placed on the ceiling to do the job of a carpet in deadening sound. Gregorian chant (if you can hear it at all) sounds awful in those circumstances.
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I love Gregorian Chant, and agree that the echoes are what makes it so beautiful. I go to two different churches, the local parish and the VA chapel. The local parish has an inexpensive audio system for the hearing impaired, which requires us to buy a $100 radio, while the VA has more money to make audio available through T-coil. Thus dealing with the echoes through personal devices.
 
I would tell you. But I prefer to remain an international man of mystery. 😎
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
I find the carpeted floor more comfortable for my knees than the kneelers, but without them, the pews are an awkward height and, of course, there are other people in the pew…
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That’s one of the reasons why I prefer plastic chairs to wooden pews. It’s easier and quicker to kneel and it’s also easier and quicker to stand up again.
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
Carpet in church is bad for acoustics. Of course it’s nearly universal in churches built after the 1960s. Bad acoustics, bad sound systems, bad music. 🤣
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Pre-microphones, yes carpet would have been bad, the hard floors would help the sound carry through the whole room better. Most churches now have at least a simple sound system though, and carpet actually helps, keeps the sound from bouncing all over. I don’t think carpet matters one way or the other, its a cost, design, and function question. Kneeling is a sign of respect towards the Body and Blood…
 
edtaylor51 said:
Pre-microphones, yes carpet would have been bad,
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My church was built in 1901, in the pre-electricity era, and does not have carpets.

But they did bring in microphones, and it really is hard to make out a lot of what the priest is saying.
 
In the next parish over, there was a dear old Sister of Mercy, Sr Mary - before Mass, as she was doing the announcements and welcome, she would say “Please take care of the kneelers, as they don’t get along with the wood in the pews.” You’d still hear a big bang after the consecration, but her manifesto in life appeared to be to spread her quiet-folding kneeler habit. At her funeral, the kneelers retracted quietly. Felt was applied to underneath the pews.

It’s a queer thing for a Catholic Church to get rid of kneelers. If one has joint issues, and as many have said, it causes great pain to kneel, then don’t.The other thing you can do is stand or sit, bow your head, and leave it to God who understands your ache and pain. It is no one else’s business as to why you didn’t kneel or whether or not you’re going to the pub afterward.
 
Perhaps it’s just me, but I can’t imagine going to mass without the kneelers. The few times I’ve seen churches without kneelers or pews, they’ve been Episcopalian. The churches in question just set out folding chairs as one would do in a school auditorium that doubles as a gym (or vice versa). I just find it odd.
 
People will always kneel, No danger of that changing. Although the elderly don’t kneel simply because they can’t. Not because they wish to make some sort of liturgical statement.
People do the best they can.
You have more danger of a person slipping on wet tile and marble floors. I’ve seen that go VERY badly.
 
I know of a Catholic church near where I live that doesn’t allow kneeling. They even have made the rows so close together that it would be impossible to kneel even if one wanted to. They claim it is because it’s too hard for the elderly to kneel. Of course, why the elderly can’t simply be the exception to the rule I don’t know.

Why do we kneel?
Matthew ch14:32
34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”

35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba,[a] Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”
Clearly Jesus wasn’t worried about the ground when he prayed.
 
Actually not quite true - people won’t always kneel. We have a church in our area that has two chapels - one with kneelers and one without. People use the kneelers in the chapel with kneelers, but if the Mass is held in the one without the kneelers a rare few would get on the floor but most sit and bow their heads instead.
 
My wife would be quite literally lost if our parish took the kneelers out of our new (three years old) church. Apparently the seat backs are just a little bit higher than our ould church and she finds her shorter stature (5’3") is uncomfortable when kneeling. If we took the kneelers out, the top of the seat back in front of her would be mid-face.
 
Tulitas said:
People will always kneel, No danger of that changing. Although the elderly don’t kneel simply because they can’t. Not because they wish to make some sort of liturgical statement.
People do the best they can.
You have more danger of a person slipping on wet tile and marble floors. I’ve seen that go VERY badly.
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Have you been to Mass without kneelers? I have. The majority do not kneel if they don’t have a kneeler. Even when there is carpet, most don’t kneel.
 
FrancisPio said:
They claim it is because it’s too hard for the elderly to kneel. Of course, why the elderly can’t simply be the exception to the rule I don’t know.
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Because the people who made this decision want to get rid of kneeling. There are Americanist heretics out there who beleive that we should kneel to no one.

I’ve heard protestant say this… “I kneel before no one, and I walk shoulder to shoulder with Christ.”

Americanist Catholics think the same way.

Pope Benedict XI talked people who think the same way as these Americanism folks in the clip from the Holy Father’s book, posted by @Tulitas

adoremus.org

The Theology of Kneeling

The theology of kneeling is explained by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in the following excerpt from a chapter, “The Body and the Liturgy”, in The Spirit of the Liturgy, published by Ignatius Press in 2000, reprinted with permission...
adoremus.org adoremus.org
 
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