Giant mirror replaces tabernacle: Catholic meditation room in India promotes 'God within'

[NewUlm1976_2000]

And this sari-clad woman is a Catholic sister??? She sounds like a Gnostic heretic. She said that God isn’t “in a church.” What about the holy Eucharist???

“More meaning” does not mean zero meaning. Everyone is different in what inspires their spirituality. Not everyones’ most productive spot is in front of a tabernacle in a church building.

 

[paladinan]

(sigh) I had a feeling some of the responses would drift in this direction…

Before anyone spends more effort typing references to “God within us”, “the Rosary uses meditation, too!”, etc., please consider the definition of the logical fallacy known as equivocation:

1. the use of equivocal or ambiguous expressions, esp. in order to mislead or hedge; prevarication.
2. an equivocal, ambiguous expression; equivoque: The speech was marked by elaborate equivocations.
3. Logic. a fallacy caused by the double meaning of a word.

For the contributors who assert that, since God dwells within us (at least, if we’re in the state of sanctifying grace–I didn’t see that qualifier, yet), it is thus somehow desirable to focus more on ourselves, I can only say that you’re painting with far too big of a brush, and you’re running counter to a virtually unanimous chorus of spiritual guidance from the Saints and Fathers of the Church, who teach that self-ABANDONMENT is a prerequisite to conforming one’s will to God’s Will (i.e. meditation, possibly blossoming into contemplation). (Ironically enough, even Zen Buddhism has no use for “focusing on the self”–its objective is “quieting the mind, and eliminating the ego”–something which Peter Kreeft rightly calls “spiritual euthanasia”.)

As to the idea that “the Holy Rosary incorporates meditation, too”: it certainly does… but that has very little to do with assessing the relative worth (or lack of worth, or even spiritual danger) of trying to co-opt eastern and pseudo-eastern mysticism in one’s attempt at meditation. Forgive me, but the very idea that, because the “pseudo-eastern mirror meditation” has some similarities to the fullness of Catholic meditation and contemplation, they are somehow equally beneficial, equally to be recommended, or even equally safe… well… “equivocation” is the kindest word that I can use to describe it.

 

[paladinan]

…you’re running counter to a virtually unanimous chorus of spiritual guidance from the Saints and Fathers of the Church, who teach that self-ABANDONMENT is a prerequisite to conforming one’s will to God’s Will (i.e. meditation, possibly blossoming into contemplation).

Sorry… didn’t catch this one until the “edit time window” had expired; the “i.e.” should read “e.g.”

Silly grammar rules…

 

[Matariel]

“More meaning” does not mean zero meaning. Everyone is different in what inspires their spirituality. Not everyones’ most productive spot is in front of a tabernacle in a church building.

She still denied the Real Presence when she said, “God is… not in the church.”

This is a serious heresy for any Catholic to commit, as the Real Presence of the Eucharist is the very centerpiece of the Catholic Faith!

 

[joe_1974]

After many years of warning people (appropriately) against worshipping the mirror, here is a literal example at Off the Record:

I think I will stick to traditional forms of prayer. Mass, The Rosary, etc. Although, this mirror room sounds interesting enough to try it for a week or so. It does sound like a meditation room.

 

[Lepanto]

It does sound like a meditation room.

To me it sounds more like a clothes fitting room or a rest room.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

paladinan;

For the contributors who assert that, since God dwells within us (at least, if we’re in the state of sanctifying grace–I didn’t see that qualifier, yet), it is thus somehow desirable to focus more on ourselves,

The focus is on God who dwells within us, not on ourselves.

St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross wrote much about going within to our center, to be with God who dwells there.

Jim

 

[Neil_Anthony]

We should be able to see God in others. And if we can’t see God working in ourselves, then we’ll have a hard time to see God in others.

I suppose for most people they already think highly enough of themselves that they don’t need to spend time looking for God in the mirror.

 

[Michael_Neal]

paladinan;

The focus is on God who dwells within us, not on ourselves.

St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross wrote much about going within to our center, to be with God who dwells there.

Jim

they also warn against it as well

 

[paladinan]

We should be able to see God in others.

No one is arguing otherwise. But the manner in which we do that isn’t simply a matter for personal tastes; there are good ways to go about “seeking that vision”, and there are bad ways. I would argue that “gazing in the mirror to look for God” is a strikingly bad way to do it.

Your statement (above) would be an excellent defense of the practice of meditating upon statues and other images of Christ and of the Saints (i.e. “enfleshed images of God” other than oneself!); but it simply won’t do, if you’re trying to defend “mirror-gazing”. Do remember that egotism (which is a spiritual disease) need not take the form of vanity or arrogance; the cranky hypochondriac is quite egotistical without any sort of “gee, how wonderful I am” flavour to their complaints and outlook. Self-obsession is bad, no matter what flavour it takes, and “mirror-gazing” seems to encourage such by its very nature, regardless of any good initial intentions.

It reminds me a bit of someone trying to “restore their pre-fallen Christian ethos re: the naked body of someone of the other gender” (i.e. to see it without lust or scorn) by frequenting a nudist colony in order to “practice” their new worldview. I’d lay odds on the experiment going awry, frankly…

And if we can’t see God working in ourselves, then we’ll have a hard time to see God in others.

I know of a plenitude of Saints who would not only disagree, but condemn that very idea as promoting the very antithesis of your otherwise good aim (e.g. St. Martin de Porres, St. Rose of Lima, St. Maximillian Kolbe, St. John Vianney, and most especially St. Therese of Lisieux). We are fallen human persons, and we don’t need to “learn” how to be selfish (think of small children–is it more common to have to teach little Johnny to share his toy truck, or to teach him how not to give it away all the time?); our fallenness handles our tutoring on that point quite nicely. No: we need to learn how to be unselfish; and mirror-gazing, no matter how noble the motive, seems to be at high risk of playing directly into the hands of our fallenness.

I suppose for most people they already think highly enough of themselves that they don’t need to spend time looking for God in the mirror.

Forgive me, but this is as illogical as it is prejudicial. You assume that those who don’t specifically “look in the mirror for God” must necessarily be full of themselves; not only could this be seen as an insult toward all non-“mirror-gazers”, but you’re assuming your conclusion (i.e. “mirror-gazing is the way to find God”) in order to prove it… which was a fallacy, last time I checked.

I appreciate your intention (so far as I understand it); but I seriously question this particular means by which you recommend pursuing that end!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

they also warn against it as well

Warned against it?

Jim

 

[paladinan]

paladinan;
The focus is on God who dwells within us, not on ourselves.

I appreciate that this may be the intention; but I argue that the means are ill-suited to the task. One might have the *intention *of helping when one pours water on a grease fire; but the flawed means only serve to make the problem worse, despite the good and innocent intentions.

St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross wrote much about going within to our center, to be with God who dwells there.
Jim

Yes… but I note that the use of mirrors–which certainly existed in their day–is conspicuously absent, in their recommendations. Common sense suggests (IMHO) that a focus on one’s physical body (which is the only purpose of a mirror, in this context) would not easily serve the goal of “getting outside of ourselves”–which is the whole point… which is a ready and reasonable explanation for the lack of such a practice in the recommendations from the mystics of Carmel.

 

[Matariel]

Warned against it?

Jim

This still doesn’t explain why the sister denied the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

 

[joe_1974]

To me it sounds more like a clothes fitting room or a rest room.

I can see that point of view. It is certainly not a Church, that is for certain. Let’s not hope they start placing tons of mirrors in Church!

 

[the_phoenix]

To paladinan and JimR-OCDS:

paladinan;

St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross wrote much about going within to our center, to be with God who dwells there.

Jim

To paladinan:

When I quoted St. Teresa of Avila in my previous post, wherein she used mirror imagery, she also described how mortal sin clouds the mirror and heresy in fact shatters the mirror into pieces. I bring this in particular to the attention of paladinan, who may not have seen the quote but was wondering if there had been any mention about the importance of a soul’s being in the state of grace so that the body may suitably serve as a temple of the Holy Spirit. (I added in the part about the temple of the Holy Spirit just now … )

To Jim:

Thanks, Jim, for mentioning St. Teresa here. While you and I do not entirely see eye to eye on this, I am all in favor of quoting this good Doctor of the Church in her own words (which is why I did so earlier), especially since the mirror imagery she uses seems so appropriate to the discussion.

To All:

As both sides, pro and con, seem well-represented here and I’m seeing that the points I might wish to make are already being conveyed more eloquently by others who are doing a better job than I would (such as on the Sanskrit translation question), I’m happy to be mainly just reading at the moment, and appreciating your posting contributions. Anyone interested in my stance is welcome to refer to my previous post on this thread.

Kind regards all around to all participants in this conversation,

~~ the phoenix

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I was only trying to show that perhaps this could be understood in a way that isn’t heretical. I don’t practice this mirror-gazing thing myself and wouldn’t recommend it to anyone.

Forgive me, but this is as illogical as it is prejudicial. You assume that those who don’t specifically “look in the mirror for God” must necessarily be full of themselves; not only could this be seen as an insult toward all non-“mirror-gazers”, but you’re assuming your conclusion (i.e. “mirror-gazing is the way to find God”) in order to prove it… which was a fallacy, last time I checked.

I wasn’t trying to suggest that. It just reminded me of how people sometimes remind me that one has to love themselves before they can love others. For most people, loving oneself comes automatically. But there are some people who go through life hating themselves and this low self esteem can make it hard or impossible for them to love others. Perhaps someone with that kind of issue needs to try to find God within himself. I have no idea if mirror-gazing is the best way to do it.

 

[Matariel]

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