Giant mirror replaces tabernacle: Catholic meditation room in India promotes 'God within'

[MusicMan]

Nowhere in the news article does it say that the Tabernacle has been replaced by this mirror. The nun in the article is surmising that a room marked “meditation room” would contain a Tabernacle. Furthermore, even if the Tabernacle used to be in the meditation room, the article gives no indication of where it was moved to.

 

[KCT]

If it were an adoration chapel, nothing would get me out faster than having to stare at myself for an hour .

 

[the_phoenix]

Its not in a church or chapel, but a prayer room. The sign above the mirror says, “God Within.”

I think we have to take in consideration the culture from where this was done and also understand that tho look for God within, is very much in line with Catholic spirituality. Anyone who doubts it, has never read St. John of the Cross.

Jim

Just to clarify, according to the article, the sign above the mirror says both “God Within” (the English text) and “I AM GOD” (the English translation of the Sanskrit text “Aham brahmasmi” directly above the English text).

~~ the phoenix

 

[Matariel]

According to Sister Lissy, the six-square-meter room appears simple but praying there is tough. Initially, the idea seemed quite outlandish, she recalled, and “I used to laugh seeing me in the mirror.” But after a week or so, “I realized God is within me, not in a church. I also realized I was confronting myself and this helped me behave better with others.”

She also **discovered “more meaning” in praying before the mirror than meditating before the tabernacle **or in a church. “God is merciful, beautiful, kind and compassionate, and so am I, because God is within me,” she added.

And this sari-clad woman is a Catholic sister??? She sounds like a Gnostic heretic. She said that God isn’t “in a church.” What about the holy Eucharist???

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Of course you dont.

As for he vast majority of the rest of us who call ourseleves Catholic…

The Rosary is a form of meditation, a form of personal prayer, more well known but the inner process in each of us is the same. Jim has posted many good relevant links on this. If me mediative to a mirror or with a rosary, we are all searching for the same thing. There are no strict rules on personal prayer, which this is an example of.

 

[Lepanto]

Round churches are nothing new, and there is nothing theologically wrong with them, especially since MANY of them are located in Rome itself.

Many of those ancient churches are round because they were pagan temples or secular buildings that were turned into churches. Also, some may have been built that way because of practical requirements. (There is a round church in Michigan built in the 1920s that had to be built that way because the ground was too soft to build a traditional church.) But what counts is the THEOLOGY of why some churches are built in the round. Modern round churches are typically built that way for different reasons. But that’s for another thread…

As far as evicting the tabernacles from the sanctuaries, this has always been common in Europe, where parades of marauding tourists, both Catholic and non-Catholic, filter through churches every day. In these buildings, the tabernacles were moved so that the faithful could pray uninterrupted, and so that people who didn’t know to bow and genuflect, or didn’t believe in the Real Presence, wouldn’t disrespect the Eucharist.

Right, and for good reason the tabernacles are placed in side-altars in those situations. But that’s not the case in the Indian example.

 

[Rolltide]

Many of those ancient churches are round because they were pagan temples or secular buildings that were turned into churches.

This is very true. However, I tried to select churches that were purpose-built, although I admit that there is some debate that San Teodoro may reside over top of a pagan temple.

Also, some may have been built that way because of practical requirements. (There is a round church in Michigan built in the 1920s that had to be built that way because the ground was too soft to build a traditional church.) But what counts is the THEOLOGY of why some churches are built in the round. Modern round churches are typically built that way for different reasons. But that’s for another thread…

I don’t know if this qualifies as being built as part of a practical requirement or not, but I forgot to mention by FAR the most famous circular church in the world, which is the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

Right, and for good reason the tabernacles are placed in side-altars in those situations. But that’s not the case in the Indian example.

I readily acknowledge that there is a great deal of abuse when it comes to the location of tabernacles today. I simply wanted to point out that there was actually a good reason for the creation of the original rule that allowed the tabernacle to be moved from behind the main altar.

 

[japhy]

If me mediative to a mirror or with a rosary, we are all searching for the same thing.

I think the person who meditates in front of a mirror seeking God within himself – or even worse, to recognize that HE is God (as the Sanskrit says) – is not meditating in the same way as the rosary. The rosary is about meditation on the mysteries of Christ (using the Hail Mary and the Our Father as “mantras”, if you will, while our minds consider the mysteries). This mirror is vague, general, “universal” (in the worst sense). It is not Christocentric, it needn’t even be theistic! An atheist could look into the mirror and recognize that he truly is (his own) god.

 

[THurifer2]

The Rosary is a form of meditation, a form of personal prayer, more well known but the inner process in each of us is the same. Jim has posted many good relevant links on this. If me mediative to a mirror or with a rosary, we are all searching for the same thing. There are no strict rules on personal prayer, which this is an example of.

The rosary is given to us by our blessed mother and is often done in community (which if done with this “exercise” would require a big mirror ).

The Rosary directs towards the mysteries in the life of christ and is a Christocentric form of prayer.

Staring at yourself in a mirror is very “un-christocentric”.It is a simple attempt to focus on yourself. It also marches against idea of Christian community since it can only be done as a solitary exercise.

Basically it is a reflection of what adam and eve did…that is, they turned their focus away from god and towards themselves.

The sign above the mirror says “I am God”. Which is the exact same thing that caused the fall of Man. Ironically the sign saying this is an advertisement for the root of all evil and that is pride.

Call no man father. (I am God is just saying that)

I personally think this mirror exercise is borderline diabolical.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Just to clarify, according to the article, the sign above the mirror says both “God Within” (the English text) and “I AM GOD” (the English translation of the Sanskrit text “Aham brahmasmi” directly above the English text).

~~ the phoenix

And how is it that you know this translation of the Sanskrit text is correct?

Jim

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I think the person who meditates in front of a mirror seeking God within himself – or even worse, to recognize that HE is God (as the Sanskrit says) – is not meditating in the same way as the rosary. The rosary is about meditation on the mysteries of Christ (using the Hail Mary and the Our Father as “mantras”, if you will, while our minds consider the mysteries). This mirror is vague, general, “universal” (in the worst sense). It is not Christocentric, it needn’t even be theistic! An atheist could look into the mirror and recognize that he truly is (his own) god.

They are still both forms of personal prayer, and still meditations. There is nothing that says one person’s personal prayer is better than another person’s form of personal prayer.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

The rosary is given to us by our blessed mother and is often done in community (which if done with this “exercise” would require a big mirror ).

The Rosary directs towards the mysteries in the life of christ and is a Christocentric form of prayer.

Staring at yourself in a mirror is very “un-christocentric”.It is a simple attempt to focus on yourself. It also marches against idea of Christian community since it can only be done as a solitary exercise.

Basically it is a reflection of what adam and eve did…that is, they turned their focus away from god and towards themselves.

The sign above the mirror says “I am God”. Which is the exact same thing that caused the fall of Man. Ironically the sign saying this is an advertisement for the root of all evil and that is pride.

Call no man father. (I am God is just saying that)

I personally think this mirror exercise is borderline diabolical.

Remember, they are both forms of personal prayer. The Rosary can be easily said alone or in a group, it does not matter. You are still meditating on something. As was mentioned and cited in this tread above this post, the theology of God within each of us is part of Catholic Theology. And in this instance, it fits just fine within personal prayer (like this mediation and the Rosary are), in which one form is not better or worse than another form.

 

[japhy]

And how is it that you know this translation of the Sanskrit text is correct?

I think we’re taking the article at its word. I’d expect the author of the article did research and got a proper translation of the phrase. Looking “Aham Brahmasmi” up in Google, I get this link first, which renders it as “I am Brahman”; following the link for “Brahman”, I learn this:
Brahman, the Absolute God of Hindus, is a very mysterious Being. In Hinduism He occupies the highest place, as the creator and enjoyer of all creation. He is the Light and Delight of the Universe, the Ruler and the Lord, without a beginning and without an end, indestructible, indescribable, blissfully immersed in Himself and all by Himself. The concept of Brahman and His relationship with individual souls and Nature and His manifestations are the subject of many schools of Hindu philosophy. Some schools believe that He is both the efficient and material cause of creation. Some believe that He is only an efficient cause and that Prakriti is the material cause. There is also considerable speculation about the relationship between Brahman and the individual souls. Some believe that both are the same and some believe that they are different.
Now, in some ways, “Brahman” sounds like God: mysterious, creator, Light, Ruler, Lord, without beginning or end, indestructible, indescribable… but Hinduism is not Christianity (let alone Catholicism) and has a vastly different take on spirituality, theology, etc.

Whether or not “Brahman” and the LORD God are the same being, the phrase “I am Brahman” means the same thing: “I am God”. And that is heresy.

 

[pnewton]

Whether or not “Brahman” and the LORD God are the same being, the phrase “I am Brahman” means the same thing: “I am God”. And that is heresy.

Not that I am into any of this kooky spiritualism and think it is too new age, I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they mean it as Jesus did int John 10.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

 

[Ghoti]

What!! Mirror gazing to find God???

So I should install a mirror in my navel now?

 

[japhy]

Not that I am into any of this kooky spiritualism and think it is too new age, I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they mean it as Jesus did int John 10.

I would put it in its context. It’s a Hindu expression/mantra (with a very particular interpretation, I would imagine). The place is owned by the “universal solidarity movement”. They’re a borderline pantheistic movement, if you ask me. They visualize “a society/nation/world with the universal family spirit of Hinduism; the discipline and fellowship of Islam; the courage of Sikhism; the compassion of Buddhism; the non-violence of Jainism; the creativity of the Parsi religion; the indomitability of Judaism; the forgiveness of Christian faith.” It sounds like they seek to transcend religion (or create a new, all-encompassing, universal one).

Here’s more: “The Movement is based on the spiritual foundations of all the world religions. The vision statement is inspired by some of the unique and positive values of these religions. The statement promotes a paradigm shift from a narrow understanding of religiosity to a broad and liberative spirituality.”

Here’s their universal prayer:
God our friend, mother and father, may you be praised
in your diversity of name and forms by the whole universe.
May we experience a world guided by your values of justice,
fraternity, equality, freedom, peace, hope and love.
May your will be the motive force of all our dreams and actions!

Give us our daily food for our body, mind and soul.
Strengthen us to forget and forgive without counting the cost!

Forgive us our offences as we forgive those who offended us in the past.
Bless all those who offend us now with your peace.
Strengthen us always to stand for truth without fear and
walk in the path of light with hope, trust, optimism and creativity!

Protect us from all evil forces and
liberate us from hatred, despair and depression!
Om Shanti! Om Shanti! Om Shanti!
I’ll pray the Pater Noster, thank you very much.

The movement is not Catholic, and I think it’s harmful to Catholics to get involved with such a pluralistic and indifferent movement.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

japhy;

I think we’re taking the article at its word.

I’m not. Right now I’m kinda skeptical about its accuracy.

I’d expect the author of the article did research and got a proper translation of the phrase.

See above.

I was going to use google as well, however, my understanding is that there are many different dialects in Sanskrit, and it could be that phrases are translated differently, depending on the context that its used in.

I don’t know, and unfortunately, my Indian co-worker was laid off last week. Otherwise I could consult with him on it.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I would put it in its context. It’s a Hindu expression/mantra (with a very particular interpretation, I would imagine). The place is owned by the “universal solidarity movement”. They’re a borderline pantheistic movement, if you ask me. They visualize “a society/nation/world with the universal family spirit of Hinduism; the discipline and fellowship of Islam; the courage of Sikhism; the compassion of Buddhism; the non-violence of Jainism; the creativity of the Parsi religion; the indomitability of Judaism; the forgiveness of Christian faith.” It sounds like they seek to transcend religion (or create a new, all-encompassing, universal one).

Here’s more: “The Movement is based on the spiritual foundations of all the world religions. The vision statement is inspired by some of the unique and positive values of these religions. The statement promotes a paradigm shift from a narrow understanding of religiosity to a broad and liberative spirituality.”

Here’s their universal prayer:
God our friend, mother and father, may you be praised
in your diversity of name and forms by the whole universe.
May we experience a world guided by your values of justice,
fraternity, equality, freedom, peace, hope and love.
May your will be the motive force of all our dreams and actions!

Give us our daily food for our body, mind and soul.
Strengthen us to forget and forgive without counting the cost!

Forgive us our offences as we forgive those who offended us in the past.
Bless all those who offend us now with your peace.
Strengthen us always to stand for truth without fear and
walk in the path of light with hope, trust, optimism and creativity!

Protect us from all evil forces and
liberate us from hatred, despair and depression!
Om Shanti! Om Shanti! Om Shanti!
I’ll pray the Pater Noster, thank you very much.

The movement is not Catholic, and I think it’s harmful to Catholics to get involved with such a pluralistic and indifferent movement.

Thanks for the info, but we don’t know if this is the case in the article.

Jim

 

[agnostic]

I remember someone telling me a story years ago of a priest in some latin american country who was fed up with the low church attendance. He advertised all over the place that there was to be a huge funeral service at the weekend and all were to attend. At the door people were met with a huge sign saying ‘‘faith is dead’’… as they walked up to the top of the church to the coffin and looked in - the priest had placed a mirror in the coffin so people say themselves.

I have no idea if that’s an urban myth or not but reading this thread reminded me of that story.

 

[Matariel]

According to Sister Lissy, the six-square-meter room appears simple but praying there is tough. Initially, the idea seemed quite outlandish, she recalled, and “I used to laugh seeing me in the mirror.” But after a week or so, “I realized God is within me, not in a church. I also realized I was confronting myself and this helped me behave better with others.”

She also discovered “more meaning” in praying before the mirror than meditating before the tabernacle or in a church. “God is merciful, beautiful, kind and compassionate, and so am I, because God is within me,” she added.

And this sari-clad woman is a Catholic sister??? She sounds like a Gnostic heretic. She said that God isn’t “in a church.” What about the holy Eucharist???