"Gifts of the Holy Spirit"

[Mary_ann_R]

Hi Ryan,

I can only speak for the prayer group(s) in our area and conferences that we have. Everything we do is under the direction of the prayer group leader(s) or Priest/Bishop. It is done in an orderly manner as our God is a God of order and we wouldn’t have it any other way. Nobody flops around and carries on. It bothers me when I hear people say that they experienced this because it leaves a bad impression of the Charismatics. Mind you, I am not passing judgement on anyone, I am only saying that our groups do not allow people to draw attention to themselves. We are gathered for a purpose, that purpose being, prayer in the Holy Spirit to build up the Church.

I have posted these links from the Catholic Charismatic Center. They are written by Bob Van Cleef. Perhaps they will help you to better understand the gifts.

ccc.garg.com/ccc/articles/Van_Cleef/Gifts/

ccc.garg.com/ccc/articles/Van_Cleef/Gifts/tongues_a.html

ccc.garg.com/ccc/articles/Van_Cleef/Gifts/tongues_b.html#grow

God Bless!

Ryan,

I forgot to add this - you need to remember that you are also dealing with different cultures. Some of the Pentacostals will become very emotional when they pray. Some people will sway when they pray, others will bob back and forth - like the Jews - did you ever see them at the wailing wall? They didn’t call the Quaker’s, Quaker’s for nothing.
I am not saying that there is anything wrong with someone who prays in that fashion. We just need to take culture into account as well.

 

[ryanoneil]

Ryan,

I forgot to add this - you need to remember that you are also dealing with different cultures. Some of the Pentacostals will become very emotional when they pray. Some people will sway when they pray, others will bob back and forth - like the Jews - did you ever see them at the wailing wall? They didn’t call the Quaker’s, Quaker’s for nothing.
I am not saying that there is anything wrong with someone who prays in that fashion. We just need to take culture into account as well.

Thank you Mary ann R. I’m going to read these when I have some more time, and comment as well.

Ryan

 

[guanophore]

Also, St. Paul mentions the gift of tongues but the catechism does not, along with some other gifts of the Spirit. If tongue is considered the greater of other gifts (according to Charismatics, as I have been informed),

You were misinformed. Paul does not say that.

why has the CCC not include it? Am I obliged to go by what St. Paul says or with the CCC teaches?

Nothing that the CCC teaches contradicts Paul in any way.

 

[guanophore]

I agree with your 1st and 3rd point.

My understanding of tongues is that it is speaking in another language by the power of the Holy Spirit, not some secret prayer language.

It is both.

In (1 Cor. 14:13-14) Paul says we should pray for interpretation. The Holy Spirit puts the words in the mouth(Acts 2:4), and the person speaking probably won’t know what their saying, because it’s in another language.

This applies when people are in a meeting.

I don’t know anymore of the story, but the point I’m try to make is that IMHO it’s something that rarely happens.

Have you considered that your experience might be a bit narrow?

Now, I’ve been to a few Pentecostal services, and I have my doubts about the nature of what they do. They tried telling me everyone could speak in tongues. (secret prayer) I don’t buy it. I told them St. Paul says the Holy Spirit gives gifts according to His will, and you just can’t will it on yourself.

Why do you suppose Paul said:

“Now I want you all to speak in tongues” 1 Cor 14:4-5

if this was not possible?

I also asked, “where is the interpretation?” and why is everyone doing it instead of the two or three at most in the bible.

There is a lot of abuse in this area. It seems that some things have not changed since the first century.

If I’m not mistaken St. Paul says that tongues is the least of the gifts.

This is true. When Paul spoke of earnestly desiring the best gifts, he was talking about prophesy, and the way of love.

.

I do know there is an awful lot of garbage tongues going on in one non-Catholic church I went to.

What does that mean?

 

[ryanoneil]

What does that mean?

Well, I was at a Pentacostal Church during some big revival as a guest, and when the Reverend asked if there was anyone who never spoke in tongues I made the mistake of raising my hand. Two teens and I were ushered up front and they were trying to get us to speak in tongues. The others did after some direction and urging, and I leaned over and wispered to the Reverend something to the effect “I’m Catholic and think I’ll strive for the greater gifts”

Well he was explaining things to me as things continued, and with out going into every detail, I was basically freaked out. One, because I was up on stage not performing in front of all these people and two, because he had me look out at everyone and most all of them were in a frenzy (for lack of better words) speaking in tongues. One thing that scared me was looking into one womans eyes who was right next to me. She was staring at me with peircing eyes and a scary smile and talking in tongues. Now, I’m sure part of it was my perception but It looked like she was possessed.

Something just didn’t feel right, and in hind sight it has something to do with God not being the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33). It seemed like they were doing everything St. Paul warns against. I’m afraid I had something of a holier than thou attitude, but I was really afraid that there were alot of people doing it to for the wrong reason. Maybe some were motivated by pride and not love for God. And I don’t want to speculate to much or be accusatory because I have friends that go there. Something just felt wrong, and I didn’t know what was going on there. I was wondering what my friends were into, and what did they get me into.

So, I don’t know exactly what I’m trying to say. I’m no expert in these things. I read the tongues booklet they gave me and stuck my nose in the bible after the fact. I think I’m like the uninstucted person looking at that church speaking in tongues and concluding that they “are mad” (1 Cor. 14:23). All the people I talked with over a three day period were very nice and like I said I have friends who go there. My biggest fear is their tongue-speaking may actually be a sign of unbelief and God’s ensuing judgment upon them. (1 Cor. 14:21), when he quotes from Isaiah 28:11-12

I pray that’s not the case. So, seeing how that is my only direct experience with tongues, I sort of have a bad taste in my mouth. I wish I didn’t have any negative feelings about it, because I know tongues is a true gift from God. I just wish I knew how to “test the spirits to see whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

Peace be with you,

Ryan

 

[passioncrosslov]

You were misinformed. Paul does not say that.

Nothing that the CCC teaches contradicts Paul in any way.

You seem like an expert on tongues. Then, what is the right info.? And I hope you are aware that CCC is Catechism of the Catholic Church, not the Charismatic Movement (ccc.garg.com/index.php?module…E&mid=&ceid=43
). The CCC clearly did not include tongues as one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit:

“The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. They belong in their fullness to Christ, Son of David.109 They complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them. They make the faithful docile in readily obeying divine inspirations” (CCC 1831).

Actually, St. Paul did not indicate clearly what exactly IS the gift of tongues, meaning what it sounds like. The only clear indication of tongues were in Acts 2:1-13, specifically directed toward tongues as speaking in different languages; the NAB interpreted as “**4 [4] **To speak in different tongues: ecstatic prayer in praise of God, interpreted in Acts 2:6, 11 as speaking in foreign languages, symbolizing the worldwide mission of the church”. This makes sense since the apostles needed this gift in order to preach the Good News to other parts of the country who’s language they knew not; these tongues are intelligible. If this is the case, then I do have the gift of tongues because I can speak 3 languages other than my native, though yet to be refined. I believe the Holy Spirit must have given it to me when I was baptized, and did not discover it until my high school years when I studied Spanish and French. I definitely question tongues as in babbling or “barking like dogs” as some people put it (excuse my french). Funny how far we could go with interpretations. STAY INTACT!!!

 

[passioncrosslov]

I don’t want to discount personal prayer in tongues outright, but something bothers me about it. Now, I’m no expert and I’m not trying to start a fight here, and I’m not trying to disprove it, so maybe someone could address some of my concerns. First, I like to say that I see the reference to communicating with God using tongues in (1 Cor 14:2 and 14:28) Just so you know I’m not denying it to be real.

In 1 Cor 14:1 it appears St. Paul is returning to his statement in 12:31 and frowning on tongues with no interpretation. I can’t help but look at verse 4 “Whoever speakes in a tongue builds himself up, but whoever prophesies builds up the church”, and hear him refering back to being inflated, seeking one’s own good, and pleasing ones self. (8:1) and (10:23-24) compaired to the related concept of “the beneficial” in (6:12) and (12:7)

In (14:6-9) he seems to be saying sound, in order to be useful, must be intelligible. And the anologies are to music (7-8) regular speech (10-11) and tongues (9 and 12) It seem to me that he’s frowning on tongues as a personal prayer language. (in and of itself)

When the charism of interpretation comes in it seems less like personal prayer, because it becomes intelligible, and has the same effect as prophecy. Why does he stress his mind and the role of reason? Why point out how confusing everything seems to be with no interpretation?

It just seems to me like much of what he is saying speaks against tongues as personal prayer. He equates tongues with foreign laguages in (14:10-12) and specifically challenges the Corinthians about seeing tongues as a sign of God favor, by being able to have direct communication in 14:20-22

He challenges them to a more mature appraisal by giving them a less flattering explanation of what speaking in tongues may signify. In verse21 Isaiah threatened the people that if they failed to listen to their prophets, the Lord would speak to them (in punishment) through the lips of Assyrian conquerors (Is 28:11-12)

Then Paul concludes from Isaiah that tongues are a sign not for those who believe, (it sure seems like it’s not a mark of Gods pleasure for those who listen to Him, but a mark of His displeasure with those in the community who are faithless, who have not heeded the message that He has sent through the prophets)

Then he concludes with specific directives regarding the exercise of the gifts in the assembly. Basically, it must contribute to the “building up” of the church. If any one speaks in a tongue, let it be two or at most three, and each in turn, and one should interpret. But if there is no interpreter, the person should keep silent in the church and speak to himself and to God. (14:27-28)

Let me close by saying, my only experience seeing tongues was at a Pentacostal church and it was chaos. I thought it was absolutely wrong, but like I said I’m no expert on these things. I would like to hear some response to these thoughts, because I don’t want to have a grudge against tongues as personal prayer to God. I’m just stuck with this idea in my head. Maybe because I perceived the abuse of tongues at the services I went to, and partially because I was afraid some might no be speaking in the Holy Spirit but some foul spirit.

Peace be with you,

Ryan

I was wondering, since Paul’s ministry was to gentiles and Corinthians were pagans, and there were many quarrels among themselves, perhaps Paul encouraged them to rather busying speaking in tongues than to hold grudges or contempt toward each other; a holy distraction???

 

[guanophore]

Well, I was at a Pentacostal Church during some big revival as a guest, and when the Reverend asked if there was anyone who never spoke in tongues I made the mistake of raising my hand. Two teens and I were ushered up front and they were trying to get us to speak in tongues. The others did after some direction and urging, and I leaned over and wispered to the Reverend something to the effect “I’m Catholic and think I’ll strive for the greater gifts”

Well he was explaining things to me as things continued, and with out going into every detail, I was basically freaked out. One, because I was up on stage not performing in front of all these people and two, because he had me look out at everyone and most all of them were in a frenzy (for lack of better words) speaking in tongues. One thing that scared me was looking into one womans eyes who was right next to me. She was staring at me with peircing eyes and a scary smile and talking in tongues. Now, I’m sure part of it was my perception but It looked like she was possessed.

Something just didn’t feel right, and in hind sight it has something to do with God not being the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33). It seemed like they were doing everything St. Paul warns against. I’m afraid I had something of a holier than thou attitude, but I was really afraid that there were alot of people doing it to for the wrong reason. Maybe some were motivated by pride and not love for God. And I don’t want to speculate to much or be accusatory because I have friends that go there. Something just felt wrong, and I didn’t know what was going on there. I was wondering what my friends were into, and what did they get me into.

So, I don’t know exactly what I’m trying to say. I’m no expert in these things. I read the tongues booklet they gave me and stuck my nose in the bible after the fact. I think I’m like the uninstucted person looking at that church speaking in tongues and concluding that they “are mad” (1 Cor. 14:23). All the people I talked with over a three day period were very nice and like I said I have friends who go there. My biggest fear is their tongue-speaking may actually be a sign of unbelief and God’s ensuing judgment upon them. (1 Cor. 14:21), when he quotes from Isaiah 28:11-12

I pray that’s not the case. So, seeing how that is my only direct experience with tongues, I sort of have a bad taste in my mouth. I wish I didn’t have any negative feelings about it, because I know tongues is a true gift from God. I just wish I knew how to “test the spirits to see whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

Peace be with you,

Ryan

Sorry that happened to you. Yes, many of the abuses Paul wrote about still occur. I hope that you will not let this experience close you to the genuine gift.

" I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all" 1 Cor 14:17-19

There are many ways to “test the spirits”. One of the main ones is whether they confess Jesus as Lord. One who does this will also submit to the bishops that God has appointed to be shepherds of HIs church.

 

[guanophore]

You seem like an expert on tongues.

Well, I wouldn’t go so far as to say that! I have had a lot of experience, both good and bad. I am fortunate to live in a diocese where there are committed, knowlegeable, and experienced clergy that can pastor these gifts.

Then, what is the right info.?

The organizations in union with the bishops and the Pope are reliable.

nsc-chariscenter.org/mission.htm

And I hope you are aware that CCC is Catechism of the Catholic Church, not the Charismatic Movement (ccc.garg.com/index.php?module…E&mid=&ceid=43
). The CCC clearly did not include tongues as one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit:

" And I will show you a still more excellent way. " 1 Cor 12:31"

The Catholic Church has chosen the “more excellent way”. sadly, this often has happened to the detriment of other gifts. I don’t think a choice has to be made between them, but pastorally, there is not enough training in this area.

Actually, St. Paul did not indicate clearly what exactly IS the gift of tongues, meaning what it sounds like.

This was not necessary at the time, because most everyone had the experience. The experience you describe above (cacaphony) does not correspond with what Paul writes about “the tongues of men and angels.” These tongues are full of harmony and beauty, and the face of the person speaking them is one of bliss and eternal peace.

The only clear indication of tongues were in Acts 2:1-13, specifically directed toward tongues as speaking in different languages; the NAB interpreted as “**4 [4] **To speak in different tongues: ecstatic prayer in praise of God, interpreted in Acts 2:6, 11 as speaking in foreign languages, symbolizing the worldwide mission of the church”. This makes sense since the apostles needed this gift in order to preach the Good News to other parts of the country who’s language they knew not; these tongues are intelligible. If this is the case, then I do have the gift of tongues because I can speak 3 languages other than my native, though yet to be refined. I believe the Holy Spirit must have given it to me when I was baptized, and did not discover it until my high school years when I studied Spanish and French.

Yes, some people are given a gift for languages. However, this example in Acts 2 is about unschooled simple fishermen that spoke only by the Power of the Spirit. Both are valid, yet different.

There are many varieties of tongues, and this is what most folks dont’ understand.

“speakers in various kinds of tongues.” 1 Cor 12:28

1 Cor 12:11
11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills."

On the day of Pentecost, a certain type of tongues was spoken that was appropriate to the time and place, and the need of those present. We have no other documentation of this phenomenon happening before, or since.

There is also a form of tongues that is to be used in a public service, always with the use of interpretation.

The most common is the “private prayer language” that is given for the edification of the believer.

1 Cor 14:3-4
4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself,"

This gift is for the strengthening of the individual, and not for the edification of the body. Granted, if each individual is stronger spiritually, the body will be benefitted, but it can be used alone, as well as when praying with others.

I definitely question tongues as in babbling or “barking like dogs” as some people put it (excuse my french). Funny how far we could go with interpretations. STAY INTACT!!!

I agree. Our God is a God of order. 1 Cor 10:31
whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."

I think such expressions are not glorifying to God, and therefore, are out of order.

As a charismatic, I have to say I have seen a lot. A few weeks ago, I attended a prayer meeting at a Catholic church comprised of very committed and devote persons. A woman was there asking for prayer. They laid hands upon her, and she fell to the ground. She began writhing and hollering. They sprinkled some holy water on her, and she got worse.

Meanwhile, everyone prayed in tongues and got really nervous.

Remember when Jesus said that certain things come out only through fasting, and prayer? Being able to “pray in the spirit” is good, but it is not the be all and end all of everything.

 

[guanophore]

I was wondering, since Paul’s ministry was to gentiles and Corinthians were pagans, and there were many quarrels among themselves, perhaps Paul encouraged them to rather busying speaking in tongues than to hold grudges or contempt toward each other; a holy distraction???

Absolutely! I think this is also the road the Church has taken. The fruit of the spirit is more valued than transitory gifts. I don’t think they need to be mutually exclusive, but clearly, the tendency to be prideful over gifts has not change much in two millenia.

 

[RoyJr]

You seem like an expert on tongues. Then, what is the right info.? And I hope you are aware that CCC is Catechism of the Catholic Church, not the Charismatic Movement

The Church IS the “Charismatic Movement”. It is the Spirit of God that enables us all to do whatever it is God has us to do, that is “charismatic movement”, the same charismatic church that began it’s movement on the day of Pentacost in Jerusalem some 2000 years ago.

). The CCC clearly did not include tongues as one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit:

“The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. They belong in their fullness to Christ, Son of David.109 They complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them. They make the faithful docile in readily obeying divine inspirations” (CCC 1831).

This was not always so, the Church changed it’s focus on the gifts given in the Sacrament of Confirmation sometime after the 4th to 8th centuries. The gifts of 1 Cor 12 were the focus of the early church up until the beginning of the Dark Ages. Interesting.

Actually, St. Paul did not indicate clearly what exactly IS the gift of tongues, meaning what it sounds like. The only clear indication of tongues were in Acts 2:1-13, specifically directed toward tongues as speaking in different languages;

Rom 8: 26-27 **"In the same way, the Spirit too comes to the aid of our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit itself intercedes with inexpressible groanings. **And the one who searches hearts knows what is the intention of the Spirit, because it intercedes for the holy ones according to God’s will. " NAB

John 4:23-24 **But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and truth; and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him. God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth." **

the NAB interpreted as “**4 [4] **To speak in different tongues: ecstatic prayer in praise of God, interpreted in Acts 2:6, 11 as speaking in foreign languages, symbolizing the worldwide mission of the church”. This makes sense since the apostles needed this gift in order to preach the Good News to other parts of the country who’s language they knew not; these tongues are intelligible.

Acts 2:4 **"And they were all filled with the holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim. **

Acts 2:6-8 "At this sound, they gathered in a large crowd, but they were confused because each one heard them speaking in his own language. They were astounded, and in amazement they asked, "Are not all these people who are speaking Galileans? Then how does each of us hear them in his own native language? "

All “tongues” are “intelligible” to God. But you are looking at the gift of tongues from a mere human (natural) understanding of languages, not the working of the Holy Spirit, which is super-natural, if fact divine.

 

[ryanoneil]

Sorry that happened to you. Yes, many of the abuses Paul wrote about still occur. I hope that you will not let this experience close you to the genuine gift.

" I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all" 1 Cor 14:17-19

There are many ways to “test the spirits”. One of the main ones is whether they confess Jesus as Lord. One who does this will also submit to the bishops that God has appointed to be shepherds of HIs church.

No, I believe in the Holy Spirit’s gift of tongues, and would consider myself blessed if I recieved it. I’m on guard toward abuses though.

I want to share one other thing quick. Of all the tongues spoke at the Pentacostal church, there was one interpretation. My friend cried out in tongues. Another woman responded “give your heart to me”. This seemed legitimate to me, but because I was on guard, my critical side thought; what if this is satan speaking? Well I don’t feel that was the case.

Is there interpretation with the majority of tongues spoke at your church?

 

[RoyJr]

If this is the case, then I do have the gift of tongues because I can speak 3 languages other than my native, though yet to be refined.

Not the same as speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Again, you are trying to understand the charism of tongues by relying on your human intellect.

**5. “The obedience of faith” (Rom. 13:26; see 1:5; 2 Cor 10:5-6) “is to be given to God who reveals, an obedience by which man commits his whole self freely to God, offering the full submission of intellect and will to God who reveals,” (4) and freely assenting to the truth revealed by Him. To make this act of faith, the grace of God and the interior help of the Holy Spirit must precede and assist, moving the heart and turning it to God, opening the eyes of the mind and giving “joy and ease to everyone in assenting to the truth and believing it.” (5) To bring about an ever deeper understanding of revelation the same Holy Spirit constantly brings faith to completion by His gifts.

1. Through divine revelation, God chose to show forth and communicate Himself and the eternal decisions of His will regarding the salvation of men. That is to say, He chose to share with them those divine treasures which totally transcend the understanding of the human mind.
   **
   DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION
   DEI VERBUM
   SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
   POPE PAUL VI ON NOVEMBER 18, 1965

I believe the Holy Spirit must have given it to me when I was baptized, and did not discover it until my high school years when I studied Spanish and French.

What does studying Spanish & French have to do with baptism?

I definitely question tongues as in babbling or “barking like dogs” as some people put it (excuse my french).

You should study Sacred Scripture rather than rely on the “puttings” of people.

Funny how far we could go with interpretations.

Or our (your) MIS-interpretations. Actually sad, not funny.

STAY INTACT!!!

YES!!! Read APOSTOLICAM ACTUOSITATEM - the Decree on the Apostolate of the Laity. This section of the decree is very important:

For the exercise of this apostolate, the Holy Spirit Who sanctifies the people of God through ministry and the sacraments gives the faithful special gifts also (cf. 1 Cor. 12:7), “allotting them to everyone according as He wills” (1 Cor. 12:11) in order that individuals, administering grace to others just as they have received it, may also be “good stewards of the manifold grace of God” (1 Peter 4:10), to build up the whole body in charity (cf. Eph. 4:16). From the acceptance of these charisms,]including those which are more elementary, there arise for each believer the right and duty to use them in the Church and in the world for the good of men and the building up of the Church, in the freedom of the Holy Spirit who “breathes where He wills” (John 3:8). This should be done by the laity in communion with their brothers in Christ, especially with their pastors who must make a judgment about the true nature and proper use of these gifts not to extinguish the Spirit but to test all things and hold for what is good (cf. 1 Thess. 5:12,19,21).(4)

“Including those which are more elementary” = TONGUES.
It has been 40 years since the close of the Second Vatican Council & yet “catholics” are still ignorant to what the Church of God has called them to do.

 

[RoyJr]

No, I believe in the Holy Spirit’s gift of tongues, and would consider myself blessed if I recieved it.

“Ask and you shall receive” - Jesus Christ

I’m on guard toward abuses though.

The only abuses I’ve experienced is when someone misinterprets 1 Cor 14 & tries to impose their individual misunderstanding of the gift of tongues & try to keep others from using the gift God gave them.

I want to share one other thing quick. Of all the tongues spoke at the Pentacostal church, there was one interpretation. My friend cried out in tongues. Another woman responded “give your heart to me”. This seemed legitimate to me, but because I was on guard, my critical side thought; what if this is satan speaking? Well I don’t feel that was the case.

I don’t usually associate with any non-catholic “charismatics”. Just seems a bit safer to me. See John 6

Is there interpretation with the majority of tongues spoke at your church?

Speaking, praying or singing in tongues are not the same use of the gift. Speaking in tongues needs interpretation because it is a form of the gift of prophesy, prophesy in tongues. The message is from God to man in an unfamiliar language.

A person(s) with the gift of discerment can discern between “speaking” and "praying in tongues. Interpretation is not necessary when one prays or sings in tongues.

 

[guanophore]

No, I believe in the Holy Spirit’s gift of tongues, and would consider myself blessed if I recieved it. I’m on guard toward abuses though.

I want to share one other thing quick. Of all the tongues spoke at the Pentacostal church, there was one interpretation. My friend cried out in tongues. Another woman responded “give your heart to me”. This seemed legitimate to me, but because I was on guard, my critical side thought; what if this is satan speaking? Well I don’t feel that was the case.

One of the tests is the Lordship of Christ. "Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus be cursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12:3

The safest thing for each individual to do is to look to oneself in maintaining a pure heart and attitude of worship. That way, if a voice other than that of the HS speaks, it will become immediately evident within the heart and spirit of the person united with Jesus in worship. Too many people pre-occupy themselves with what others are doing.

Is there interpretation with the majority of tongues spoke at your church?

It is rare that we even use tongues at Mass, but if we are, then most of the time it is for worship. Paul is talking about the use of tongues prophetically, in which case, yes, an interpretation should be given.

 

[davethecatholic]

Interesting…Aquinas on the gift of tongues (Objections and Replies omitted)

Article 1. Whether those who received the gift of tongues spoke in every language?

I answer that, Christ’s first disciples were chosen by Him in order that they might disperse throughout the whole world, and preach His faith everywhere, according to Matthew 28:19, “Going . . . teach ye all nations.” Now it was not fitting that they who were being sent to teach others should need to be taught by others, either as to how they should speak to other people, or as to how they were to understand those who spoke to them; and all the more seeing that those who were being sent were of one nation, that of Judea, according to Isaiah 27:6, “When they shall rush out from Jacob [Vulgate: ‘When they shall rush in unto Jacob,’ etc.] . . . they shall fill the face of the world with seed.” Moreover those who were being sent were poor and powerless; nor at the outset could they have easily found someone to interpret their words faithfully to others, or to explain what others said to them, especially as they were sent to unbelievers. Consequently it was necessary, in this respect, that God should provide them with the gift of tongues; in order that, as the diversity of tongues was brought upon the nations when they fell away to idolatry, according to Genesis 11, so when the nations were to be recalled to the worship of one God a remedy to this diversity might be applied by the gift of tongues.

Article 2. Whether the gift of tongues is more excellent than the grace of prophecy?

I answer that, The gift of prophecy surpasses the gift of tongues, in three ways. First, because the gift of tongues regards the utterance of certain words, which signify an intelligible truth, and this again is signified by the phantasms which appear in an imaginary vision; wherefore Augustine compares (Gen. ad lit. xii, 8) the gift of tongues to an imaginary vision. On the other hand, it has been stated above (173, 2) that the gift of prophecy consists in the mind itself being enlightened so as to know an intelligible truth. Wherefore, as the prophetic enlightenment is more excellent than the imaginary vision, as stated above (174, 2), so also is prophecy more excellent than the gift of tongues considered in itself. Secondly, because the gift of prophecy regards the knowledge of things, which is more excellent than the knowledge of words, to which the gift of tongues pertains.

Thirdly, because the gift of prophecy is more profitable. The Apostle proves this in three ways (1 Corinthians 14); first, because prophecy is more profitable to the edification of the Church, for which purpose he that speaketh in tongues profiteth nothing, unless interpretation follow (1 Corinthians 14:4-5). Secondly, as regards the speaker himself, for if he be enabled to speak in divers tongues without understanding them, which pertains to the gift of prophecy, his own mind would not be edified (1 Corinthians 14:7-14). Thirdly, as to unbelievers for whose especial benefit the gift of tongues seems to have been given; since perchance they might think those who speak in tongues to be mad (1 Corinthians 14:23), for instance the Jews deemed the apostles drunk when the latter spoke in various tongues (Acts 2:13): whereas by prophecies the unbeliever is convinced, because the secrets of his heart are made manifest (Acts 2:25).

 

[passioncrosslov]

Guys,

Thanks for the guidance.

1. No doubt the Church has always been charismatic because the Holy Spirit has guided it ever since her birth at Pentecost. That is the tradition of the Church. It doesn’t all of the sudden boom by the Charismatic Movement which has sprung from the protestant church (not meaning I despise protestants, in fact, I respect many of them - please, don’t misjudge me). Ever since the birth of the Church, Christ continues to guide her toward a deeper union with Him through private revelations and inspirations of the saints, and this is the true treasure of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
2. I don’t think my faith is even near deteriorating (not in my vocabulary). “Ask and you shall receive.” If one ask for tongues, one shall receive it, even if it sounds like a baby’s babble, stuttering, or an animal sound (even animals know how to praise God). I just felt some people make such a big deal about tongues when it is not necessary to grow in love with God or to praise Him. If one feels like one needs it, go for it. But then again, different people have different ways of praising God. No biggy, just trying to understand the gift from Holy Scripture and the Church point of view.
3. You know, maybe you’re right, I should start reading more… Thanks!

 

[ryanoneil]

I was wondering, since Paul’s ministry was to gentiles and Corinthians were pagans, and there were many quarrels among themselves, perhaps Paul encouraged them to rather busying speaking in tongues than to hold grudges or contempt toward each other; a holy distraction???

Would you please rephase or clarify what your saying, because I’m not quite understanding?

Thank You,

Ryan

P.S. I can’t interpret the tongue you’re speaking in. ( HA HA) Just joking Sorry I couldn’t resist.

 

[passioncrosslov]

Would you please rephase or clarify what your saying, because I’m not quite understanding?

Thank You,

Ryan

I don’t know how else to put it. Anyway, it’s just a thought not necessarily a fact. I don’t even agree with some of my thoughts, so, don’t worry too much about it!

 

[passioncrosslov]

Would you please rephase or clarify what your saying, because I’m not quite understanding?

Thank You,

Ryan

P.S. I can’t interpret the tongue you’re speaking in. ( HA HA) Just joking Sorry I couldn’t resist.

Interpreter, anyone?