Girl Altar Servers?

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maklavan:
I have always found girls to be bettet altar servers. They are respectful and dignified,and don’ t fool about and grin foolishly at their pals as boys are inclined to do.
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I have found to my surprise that it is the opposite, the girls are the ones who are being immature, and talking and gossiping in the middle of mass. I would say this goes on a case by case, basis. But that is not even the case. Granted, i have watched and have witnessed a great deal of piouty in female of over males, and in fact i would say that i have even seen some sisters and even just lay people who are alot more holy than some Priests, but the case still stands. Even if females could do a better job at it, they have not been ommissioned for that duty, it is not a sexist thing, it is just how things are.
 
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maklavan:
I have always found girls to be bettet altar servers. They are respectful and dignified,and don’ t fool about and grin foolishly at their pals as boys are inclined to do.
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I have found to my surprise that it is the opposite, the girls are the ones who are being immature, and talking and gossiping in the middle of mass. I would say this goes on a case by case, basis, though, we can
t just go out and start committing fallacies left and right, and start over generalizing,. But that is not even the case. Granted, i have watched and have witnessed a great deal of piouty in female of over males, and in fact i would say that i have even seen some sisters and even just lay people who are alot more holy than some Priests, but the case still stands. Even if females could do a better job at it, they have not been ommissioned for that duty, it is not a sexist thing, it is just how things are.
 
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kleary:
I was training altar boys in my former parish. Was doing it for a few years. And when the assistant pastor told me that from now on they would have girls serve mass also I RESIGNED. Many of the young boys also stopped serving Mass because of it. Now all who serve are 99 percent girls, all the Em’s and Lectors are also women.

The REASON for the Altar Girls is pressure from those in the Church who want women priests, pure and simple. No matter what they say to all of us for social reasons or whatever.

Isn’t it true that the Liturgy is an expression of our Catholic Faith? What is called “Lex Orendi - Lex Credendi” - thus the Liturgy should show the Roman Catholic Faith that is believed by the Roman Catholic Church.

So what do Altar Girls represent and teach us in our liturgy?

Ken
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BEST SAID HERE!!! I for one: if my parish (there have been talks=because of pressure) gets altar girls, I LEAVE!!
 
“Out of the mouthes of babes…” I was talking to my daughter whom I wrote a post about earlier in the thread. I told her that one theory to boy servers only was vocations to the priesthood. We have had this discussion several times. This time she asked why a girl who serves on the Altar wouldn’t be inspired to be nun? She reasoned that Nuns give their lives to God just as boys can…FANTASTIC!!! I think this whole debate boils down to whether or not the family of the young person wanting to serve encourages it. I believe the call to altar service is a form of a vocation like any other service that can be performed in the Mass and needs to be fostered. I’m sure there are lots of young people who want to and don’t for a myriad of reasons because the vocation is not fostered. Because I’m the father of two daughters I want to see both of them find their way, through God’s call, in the Church.
 
Mothers Boy said:
“Out of the mouthes of babes…” I was talking to my daughter whom I wrote a post about earlier in the thread. I told her that one theory to boy servers only was vocations to the priesthood. We have had this discussion several times. This time she asked why a girl who serves on the Altar wouldn’t be inspired to be nun? She reasoned that Nuns give their lives to God just as boys can…FANTASTIC!!! I think this whole debate boils down to whether or not the family of the young person wanting to serve encourages it. I believe the call to altar service is a form of a vocation like any other service that can be performed in the Mass and needs to be fostered. I’m sure there are lots of young people who want to and don’t for a myriad of reasons because the vocation is not fostered. Because I’m the father of two daughters I want to see both of them find their way, through God’s call, in the Church.
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for 2000 years men and boys serving has aided in the dicernment to the preisthood. The Priesthood is a calling and woe to those that interfere with the calling of God to the priesthood.
The abuse of girls serving is an interference with that call, It’s always been an abuse and is by its example a liturgica heresy.
We used to have lots of Nun’s in the Church but the cause of that distruction was the loss of the habit and discpline. Before WWI and WWII the number of Nun’s inthe world was huge. I guess they were doing something right and we are doing things wrong. The vocation to monastic life of these women was successful for over 1600 years. Never was it due to this liturgical abuse.
I have a daughter and she will never be allowed to pretend she’s an altar boy. That is not her place. I would be very happy if she decides on the consecrated life. Vocations are never increased by liturgical abuse. They are detroyed by it.
 
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Agomemnon:
for 2000 years men and boys serving has aided in the dicernment to the preisthood.
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The ministry of altar server is a modern innovation, taking on some of the duties of the former minor order of Acolyte.
 
I’ve had the pleasure of being very active in two parishes where girls were allowed to be altarservers. In the first, my oldest son reached the age that the priest allowed children to begin serving. He spoke to other boys his age about his excitement to be joining the ranks of altar servers. The other boys told him he was crazy for wanting to join the girls’ group. The number of boys in the parish his age far out-numbered the girls his age, but he was one of only two boys that went to the training class along with many little girls. The other boy would not sign up for Masses to serve even after he was trained. My son became the only boy regularly donning an alb and serving in our parish. He frequently asked other boys to become servers, but they always refused to get in the “girls’ group.”

In the second parish, the priest allowed girls to serve per the direction of the bishop, but the priest strongly encouraged boys to serve. He required the new servers to be at least 4th graders strong enough to carry the heaviest processional crucifix steadily. He had the servers dress in cassocks covered with surplices. He required that they be reverent and attentive to the Mass at all times. The teen-aged boys that served set good examples for the younger servers. My oldest son was too young to serve when we first moved into this parish, but soon reached the age to serve, underwent the training, and volunteered to serve every Mass we went to. He had to stand in line for a turn to serve under this priest with other enthusiastic young boys. A few girls wanted to serve and were allowed to on occasion, but were not allowed to displace the boys.

We whole-heartedly encourage all our sons to serve, and they are very enthusiastic about serving. Now we are in a parish that has only boys serving. There is usually a line of boys begging the priest to allow them to serve before each Mass. Our priest finds a job for each of them. We always have bells and oftentimes incense. I have complimented our priest for his knack for encouraging the boys to serve. He certainly has a gift for making the priesthood look inviting.

My husband and I agreed when we were in the first parish that we would not allow our daughters to be altar servers. I have had the absolute pleasure of working on the altar society and encourage my daughters to serve the Lord in this way for the pure pleasure of doing the menial cleaning chores that make the sanctuary so inviting. I also make a point to introduce my daughters to sisters in habit whenever I have the chance. The sisters I have met that were not in habits were so crabby I made a point of not introducing my daughters to them. We have met so many lovely nuns over the years. I encourage my daughters to seriously consider religious vocations.

I am a firm believer in the phrase “Grow where you are planted.” Still as a responsible parent, I seriously consider the environment that I put my children into. When our bishop moved out our manly priest and put two very effeminate priests in our parish, my husband and I decided to drive further to go to a parish with a masculine priest. We also frequently attend Masses at a seminary near our new parish. Happily, we are able to make the 3 hour round trip each Sunday and most holy days. We surround our family with devout, manly priests. The effect on our children is beautiful. They love the priests, deacons, seminarians, and novices. My sons love to quote Fr. Pablo Straub, who they heard give a homily at the seminary. He said, “It’s great to be a priest. It’s even better to be a bishop.”

As long as I keep giving life to the children God chooses to bless me with, and as long as the priests they meet are as joyful as the ones we surround them with now, I feel sure vocations will be fostered in my family. I pray that other families will also be blessed with vocations.
 
Am I the only one who thinks the priest’s answer to the question was kinda not helpful.
I (a girl) used to want to be an altar server but realized that whole priest-altar server connection.
But, as many posters have said, what about a girl wanting to become a nun? There’s not really a comparable way for girls to serve like that, is there? At the same time, when I see a girl altar server wearing the alb with the collar thing (sorry for not using the techincal names) it kinda weirds me out- she looks like a mini female priest! But I do admire their devotion to serve and don’t think they have any “feminist agendas” or ambitions for women “priesthood”…I don’t know, I have mixed feelings about this one. :confused:
 
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katherine2:
The ministry of altar server is a modern innovation, taking on some of the duties of the former minor order of Acolyte.
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Please Finish:
Always male Altar Boys from the Middle Ages… about an 800 Year old “innovation” . As far as I know that minor Order of Acolyte still exists…male only. It may no longer be active.

So, relative to male/female the real innovation is …female servers.
The Altar boy was a gradual innovation over which there was no outcry of protest or any confusion of the laity, or conflict between priest / bishop.
 
I had a telephone conversation with a priest yesterday, not my pastor but one I have a lot of respect for. I asked him where he found the most help in finding his vocation – mixed groups or single sex. He told me that while he was an altar boys (only boys back then), it gave him a chance to learn much about the liturgy, but that was not the place that most helped him with his vocation. He told me that his time at a Catholic boys school provided a soild education for him, but that was not the place that nutured his vocation the most. He said the group that most nurtured his vocation was definately mixed-gendered – his family, brothers and sisters and parents. He then ended our conversation with the words “gotta go now; love you Mom”.
 
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fix:
Keep in mind the Vatican has said female servers may be permitted if a bishop allows it and the priest agrees, that is about it. Again, I see no glowing in endorsement it must be done everywhere, with great frequency and fervor. The Vatican has said specifically that male servers should be fostered. The Vatican has not said female servers should be fostered, specifically.
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I’ll guess that within 5-10 years, altar girls will be prohibited by the Church. JPII laid the groundwork for this in RS. Don’t expect full compliance though. Many sexist/feminists will simply disregard the Pope in favor of their own “rights” as they have in the past.
 
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katherine2:
I had a telephone conversation with a priest yesterday, not my pastor but one I have a lot of respect for. I asked him where he found the most help in finding his vocation – mixed groups or single sex. He told me that while he was an altar boys (only boys back then), it gave him a chance to learn much about the liturgy, but that was not the place that most helped him with his vocation. He told me that his time at a Catholic boys school provided a soild education for him, but that was not the place that nutured his vocation the most. He said the group that most nurtured his vocation was definately mixed-gendered – his family, brothers and sisters and parents. He then ended our conversation with the words “gotta go now; love you Mom”.
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:tiphat: HAT’S OFF TO YOU K2!

Does your son vote for the most pro-life candidates or the most pro-government-program candidates during elections??

In your view I imagine the perfect candidate would be both, right?? But in a imperfect world, I wonder if your son sides with LIFE first before all other issues??
 
Nota Bene:
I’ll guess that within 5-10 years, altar girls will be prohibited by the Church. JPII laid the groundwork for this in RS. Don’t expect full compliance though. Many sexist/feminists will simply disregard the Pope in favor of their own “rights” as they have in the past.
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If it doesn’t happen within 8 years (by 2013), then female altar servers will acquire the canon law status of “custom”.
 
jlw said:
:tiphat: HAT’S OFF TO YOU K2!

Does your son vote for the most pro-life candidates or the most pro-government-program candidates during elections??
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Nowe, now, my good friend, on reflection, don’t you think maybe that’s an inapproriate question?
In your view I imagine the perfect candidate would be both, right??
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You mean like my Lt. Governor Catherine Baker Knoll, my Commonwealth Attorny General Bob Casey,Jr and my friend Representative Babette Josephs?
But in a imperfect world, I wonder if your son sides with LIFE first before all other issues??
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I can tell you he sides with ALL Catholic issues. He’s not the type of Catholic who decides which dish in the cafeteria line is most important and ignores the rest. he is a full dinner pail Catholic!!
 
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katherine2:
Nowe, now, my good friend, on reflection, don’t you think maybe that’s an inapproriate question?

You mean like my Lt. Governor Catherine Baker Knoll, my Commonwealth Attorny General Bob Casey,Jr and my friend Representative Babette Josephs?

I can tell you he sides with ALL Catholic issues. He’s not the type of Catholic who decides which dish in the cafeteria line is most important and ignores the rest. he is a full dinner pail Catholic!!
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Upon refection, yes.

Yes, yes, and yes, so I guess given the *presidential *candiadates, he doesn’t vote??

But can’t Catholics be considered faithful Catholics if they are pro-life and in good conciences have differing views as to the role of government should play in aiding the poor???

Are they faithful Catholics if they only agree that government programs are best and that abortion, though “opposed” to it, is a “human right”??
 
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Agomemnon:
for 2000 years men and boys serving has aided in the dicernment to the preisthood. The Priesthood is a calling and woe to those that interfere with the calling of God to the priesthood.
The abuse of girls serving is an interference with that call, It’s always been an abuse and is by its example a liturgica heresy.
We used to have lots of Nun’s in the Church but the cause of that distruction was the loss of the habit and discpline. Before WWI and WWII the number of Nun’s inthe world was huge. I guess they were doing something right and we are doing things wrong. The vocation to monastic life of these women was successful for over 1600 years. Never was it due to this liturgical abuse.
I have a daughter and she will never be allowed to pretend she’s an altar boy. That is not her place. I would be very happy if she decides on the consecrated life. Vocations are never increased by liturgical abuse. They are detroyed by it.
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This is a liturgical abuse? Is there something else that tells me this?

The following guidelines were prepared by the Bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy and presented to the National Conference of Catholic Bishops for discussion at the June 1994 Special Assembly on Thursday, June 16, 1994. The suggested guidelines may be used as a basis for developing diocesan guidelines.


  1. *]Although institution into the ministry of acolyte is reserved to lay men, the diocesan bishop may permit the liturgical functions of the instituted acolyte to be carried out by altar servers, men and women, boys and girls. Such persons may carry out all the functions listed in no. 100 and nos. 189-193 of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal.

    The determination that women and girls may function as servers in the liturgy should be made by the bishop on the diocesan level so that there might be a uniform diocesan policy.
    *]No distinction should be made between the functions carried out in the sanctuary by men and boys and those carried out by women and girls. The term “altar boys” should be replaced by “servers”. The term “server” should be used for those who carry out the functions of the instituted acolyte.
    *]Servers should be mature enough to understand their responsibilities and to carry them out well and with appropriate reverence. They should have already received holy communion for the first time and normally receive the eucharist whenever they participate in the liturgy.
    *]Servers should receive proper formation before they begin to function. The formation should include instruction on the Mass and its parts and their meaning, the various objects used in the liturgy (their names and use), and the various functions of the server during the Mass and other liturgical celebrations. Servers should also receive appropriate guidance on maintaining proper decorum and attire when serving Mass and other functions.
    *]Since the role of server is integral to the normal celebration of the Mass, at least one server should assist the priest. On Sundays and other more important occasions, two or more servers should be employed to carry out the various functions normally entrusted to these ministers.
    *]Servers should normally be vested. This is within the tradition of the Church and prevents difficulties regarding appropriate dress for these ministers. All servers should wear the same liturgical vesture.1
    *]Servers carry the cross, the processional candles, hold the book for the priest celebrant when he is not at the altar, carry the incense and censer, present the bread, wine, and water to the priest during the preparation of the gifts or assist him when he receives the gifts from the people, wash the hands of the priest, assist the priest celebrant and deacon as necessary.
    *]Servers respond to the prayers and dialogues of the priest along with the congregation. They also join in singing the hymns and other chants of the liturgy.
    *]Servers should be seated in a place from which they can easily assist the priest celebrant and deacon. The place next to the priest is normally reserved for the deacon.
    *]Servers may not distribute holy communion unless they have been mandated for this function by the bishop.
    *]The Order for the Blessing of Altar Servers, Sacristans, Musicians, and Ushers (Book of Blessings, nos. 1847-1870) may be used before servers first begin to function in this ministry.

    Footnotes 1"In the diocese of the United States of America, acolytes, altar servers, lectors, and other lay ministers may wear an alb or other suitable vesture or other appropriate and dignified clothing." (Girm 337)
 
catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4059

This link is from Catholic Culture.The response would seem to me to indicate that Female Altar Servers allowed but not required. Does this mean I will try to force my Pastor to let her serve? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I will be obebient to his authority and teach my children that. I will also encourage both of my daughters to follow the call of God to whatever service they are called to as long as it is a letgitamate service that females are allowed to perform in the Church.
 
I was a young man and an alter server once, the last thing a young man needs on his mind when he is either trying to serve or just attending mass is a girl that he finds attractive. A young man’s mind needs to be on his duties and upon the Eucharist, not the cute girl next to of in front of him.
The issue of young homosexual boys doesn’t count, there are too few of them, however if we keep changing and confusing gender roles, there will one day be an over abundance of homesexual children. Maybe I sound crazy, but just my observations.
Peace…
 
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flick427:
I was a young man and an alter server once, the last thing a young man needs on his mind when he is either trying to serve or just attending mass is a girl that he finds attractive. A young man’s mind needs to be on his duties and upon the Eucharist, not the cute girl next to of in front of him.
The issue of young homosexual boys doesn’t count, there are too few of them, however if we keep changing and confusing gender roles, there will one day be an over abundance of homesexual children. Maybe I sound crazy, but just my observations.
Peace…
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Maybe it would be helpful if we Catholic women all dressed in veils like the Muslims?

I think the solution to the problem you outline does not require less girls in eyeshot of the altar boys but more cold showers.

The above solution is for the problem you propose. I can tell you the men in my life have been quite able to control themselves.
 
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