Girl Altar Serviers

[trickster]

I don’t understand the question. If altar servers aren’t serving a purpose during Mass, aren’t “useful,” why are they there?

And what does their usefulness have to do with whether or not I like them?

Luna

You go Luna!

Bruce

 

[trickster]

A small step in the right direction, as in Women Priests?

God Forbid

Jesus didn’t have any women be apostles. If He wanted to, than He would’ve done so. No, women had a place to play in the Church, and it was a very different one than the role men had to play. What are you gonna say Jesus was sexist, behind the times, and oppressive?
“Well if only Jesus knew society wouldn’t always be a male-dominated one”

UM, HE DID KNOW. And He did what He did. No getting around it. I choose this line of argumentation, because this is the reason the Pope says, even if He wanted women to be ordained, he couldn’t do it without violating the teachings of Jesus. (not that he wants to).

Anyways, a priest has to be in Persona Christi. Christ was a man. God is a man. Denominations that allow women priests start calling God unisex or even female
Is no bueno. No bueno. :nope:

Keep the arguments about a male priesthood separate from alter servers they are not the same thing despite arguements that one leads to another. Jesus was limited to his time and place and we ought to leave Jesus of Nazareth in that time and place. Would Jesus “the Christ” be limited to our human form which includes our socio-cultural context?

I don’t buy (but honour as a Catholic) the argument that just because Jesus selected men (and did he?) that the priesthood should be male? I think that the Anglicans-Episcopaleans are not confused at all when they allowed women priests…spirituality - informed by gender and sex experience - has its place at the altar as I said before and that is what our church is sorely missing.

Again, Jesus, yes he was a man - Jesus of Nazareth…but who does the priest represent or is “personal Christi”…I believe “Christ” is a different concept than Jesus of Nazareth…so even there we have some arguements in favour of women priesthood…in the nature of the Christ not the limits of Jesus of Nazareth.

Anyways, that my friend is not what this posting is about…it is about alter servers…and where does it say (within our church) that the male only arguement even applies

Bruce

 

[Debora123]

My point of view is rather simple. The only reason the Church ever allowed juveniles to be altar servers in the first place is for vocational development. Since girls cannot become priests, what is the point?

I am quite certain this is not the case. Both my brother and my husband were altar servers and “having an interest in the priesthood” was never a criteria they had to meet in order to be accepted as an altar server. Neither of them ever felt the slightest calling or the slightest interest in being priests.

And in fact, my husband was an altar server for his university parish AFTER WE WERE ENGAGED.

So I’m not sure it makes sense to say “girls can’t be altar servers because it’s only for exploring priesthood and girls can’t be priests.”

 

[trickster]

Well, I say Altar Servers should mainly be for boys because it can inspire in them a Vocation to the Priesthood. I don’t have any problem with girl Altar Servers since the Church allows them, but girls should understand what they’re doing. They’re asssisting at the Sacrifice of the Cross.

Little Hannah…I think that you and I can agree on that general statement…and like I said, it was women who were at the foot of the original sacrifice and the last to leave with the dead body of Jesus of Nazareth. I think that it is fitting that girls can serve at the alter since - in every shape and form - they actually served at the original sacrifice by being there with Our Lady…yes, girls (and women) have been denied the role they played at the original sacrifice at the cross…

Bruce

 

[LittleHannah]

I would never say that women priests are not within the Catholic Church…who knows what will happen in 500 years

How do you explain to a little girl who feels called to serve mass with the priest? In all cultures, humans have special or unique “counter” callings (i.e Joan of Arc) outside of the gender role the times and space have allowed that girl or boy?

Bruce

Women can never be ordained Priests. It simply cannot be done. Not even the Pope can ordain a woman. Christ had 12 Apostles and they were all men. He could have chosen to make women priests, but he did’nt.

 

[A_G]

I have only seen girl altar servers in my local parish. I don’t believe I’ve seen girl altar servers in my Croatian parish however.

I have no problem with this. Why would I? If the Church allows it, it’s fine.

 

[LittleHannah]

Little Hannah…I think that you and I can agree on that general statement…and like I said, it was women who were at the foot of the original sacrifice and the last to leave with the dead body of Jesus of Nazareth. I think that it is fitting that girls can serve at the alter since - in every shape and form - they actually served at the original sacrifice by being there with Our Lady…yes, girls (and women) have been denied the role they played at the original sacrifice at the cross…

Bruce

I was thinking that too. I’m just saying that they need to think about what they are doing up there at the Altar. I’ve seen some girls acting like the’re showing off at the Altar…

 

[trickster]

Women can never be ordained Priests. It simply cannot be done. Not even the Pope can ordain a woman. Christ had 12 Apostles and they were all men. He could have chosen to make women priests, but he did’nt.

We are talking about girls as alter servers not priests…making this connection invites us to a deeper discussion about why boys were absorbed into the role. Does anyone know the history of the “alter boy”? When did the alter boy become part of the Mass? Who did the rationalization for this inclusion?

You see LittleHannah, I am not aware fo that connection between the alter boy and priesthood…and I was an alter boy…that perhaps is the source of disagreement in this thread…

Bruce

 

[Sepp]

I would never say that women priests are not within the Catholic Church…who knows what will happen in 500 years

How do you explain to a little girl who feels called to serve mass with the priest? In all cultures, humans have special or unique “counter” callings (i.e Joan of Arc) outside of the gender role the times and space have allowed that girl or boy?

Bruce

It is worth nothing here that Pope John Paul II, in his encyclical Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, teaches:

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

Personally, as someone considering entering the Catholic Church from Eastern Orthodoxy, I can say that issues such as female altar servers are high on the list of “emotional” reasons for the continued separation today. Not so much because it is a major issue in itself, but because it leads to confusion as to the role of men and women, and particularly in regard to the priesthood. I can say that I have never encountered a girl who has a problem with the tradition of male altar servers in the Orthodox Church…I suspect that this has much to do with the attitude of the parents in explaining such matters.

 

[trickster]

I was thinking that too. I’m just saying that they need to think about what they are doing up there at the Altar. I’ve seen some girls acting like the’re showing off at the Altar…

Well girls will be girls as boys will be boys…I have seen alter boys fall asleep on their job or show attention deficit signs of not being engaged in the mass

Ah, but they are good kids though

Bruce

 

[trickster]

It is worth nothing here that Pope John Paul II, in his encyclical Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, teaches:

Personally, as someone considering entering the Catholic Church from Eastern Orthodoxy, I can say that issues such as female altar servers are high on the list of “emotional” reasons for the continued separation today. Not so much because it is a major issue in itself, but because it leads to confusion as to the role of men and women, and particularly in regard to the priesthood. I can say that I have never encountered a girl who has a problem with the tradition of male altar servers in the Orthodox Church…I suspect that this has much to do with the attitude of the parents in explaining such matters.

Hello Sepp…well if you do decide to be part of our faith community you are most certainly welcomed and embraced…

I can’t speak for the Eastern Orthodox church as I am not part of their community. The Roman Catholic Church has been much more of a western church and I guess that is why our debates, dialogues and conversations differ from those dynamics in your community.

I was not clear on your point so I would like to ask you this; when you say “I* can say that issues such as female altar servers are high on the list of “emotional” reasons for the continued separation *today.” are you saying that the inclusion of girls as alter service is an issue that promotes union between our church and the Eastern Orthodox?

We as Catholics like to debate and argue points…our Jesuits are symbolic of that spark we have in the church…yet we still gather on sundays to attend mass and demonstrate that unity that we do have as a community…so if you become part of our community enjoy the conversations we have…

Bruce

 

[Titania]

I am pro altar girls. I was one, and I absolutely loved it. I also think I took it far more seriously than a lot of the boys that I served with. Additionally, I believe that it set a foundation for me that has led me to study theology (I’m in college) and prevented me from straying from my faith as many of my friends my age have. :twocents:

 

[promethius]

This poll is not comprehensive, since you did not include an option for “do not care”.

The church allows them, ergo I do not care if it’s a male or female altar server. I do not “like to see girl altar servers” nor do I dislike to see them.

What I like to see are reverent youths who are devoutly serving the mass and at the same time learning more deeply about the sacrifice that is going on.

Incidently, since I don’t care, I found that the answer “yes” was closer to my position than no, so I did vote.

 

[tafan]

I am quite certain this is not the case. Both my brother and my husband were altar servers and “having an interest in the priesthood” was never a criteria they had to meet in order to be accepted as an altar server. Neither of them ever felt the slightest calling or the slightest interest in being priests.

And in fact, my husband was an altar server for his university parish AFTER WE WERE ENGAGED.

So I’m not sure it makes sense to say “girls can’t be altar servers because it’s only for exploring priesthood and girls can’t be priests.”

It was certainly the case. The history of altar servers is that they started out being the “minor orders”, boys who certainly were being grooomed for the priesthood. But then it became more the norm for any boys to do so, to give them more direct exposure to the priesthood. As such, it was not a qualification at all that they expressed any interest. When I was a boy,I really never had much interest in becoming a priest; but I can certainly say that many times being a server and that close to the priest would make me think of the possibilities.

 

[tafan]

I have only seen girl altar servers in my local parish. I don’t believe I’ve seen girl altar servers in my Croatian parish however.

I have no problem with this. Why would I? If the Church allows it, it’s fine.

So when the Church does not allow it, you are also fine with that? I know of parishes and at I have heard of one diocese in the US that girls are not allowed to be altar servers. I believe other countries (I think Mexico is one), they are not allowed in the entire country.

 

[grasscutter]

I am pro altar girls. I was one, and I absolutely loved it. I also think I took it far more seriously than a lot of the boys that I served with. Additionally, I believe that it set a foundation for me that has led me to study theology (I’m in college) and prevented me from straying from my faith as many of my friends my age have. :twocents:

I always wish I had been allowed to be one. I believe, if I had, I would certainly have made more moral choices as I grew into adulthood.

 

[tafan]

I am pro altar girls. I was one, and I absolutely loved it. I also think I took it far more seriously than a lot of the boys that I served with. Additionally, I believe that it set a foundation for me that has led me to study theology (I’m in college) and prevented me from straying from my faith as many of my friends my age have. :twocents:

I have no trouble believing that many of the girls take it more seriously; I understand the difference between boys and girls in behavior quite well. But that can be addressed with discipline.

If it help lead you to the study of theology,then it seems the argument that it should be a tool to lead boys to the priesthood is certainly valid.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I was not clear on your point so I would like to ask you this; when you say “I* can say that issues such as female altar servers are high on the list of “emotional” reasons for the continued separation *today.” are you saying that the inclusion of girls as alter service is an issue that promotes union between our church and the Eastern Orthodox?

Bruce

No, the poster means that the issue of girl altar servers is an emotional issue that promotes disunion between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches.

 

[Debora123]

It was certainly the case. The history of altar servers is that they started out being the “minor orders”, boys who certainly were being grooomed for the priesthood. But then it became more the norm for any boys to do so, to give them more direct exposure to the priesthood. As such, it was not a qualification at all that they expressed any interest. When I was a boy,I really never had much interest in becoming a priest; but I can certainly say that many times being a server and that close to the priest would make me think of the possibilities.

WAS being the key word here.

The Church now allows even girls to be altar servers… so obviously it is incorrect to say that the only purpose of an altar server is for discerning priesthood.

 

[ChrisRedfield47]

I am quite certain this is not the case. Both my brother and my husband were altar servers and “having an interest in the priesthood” was never a criteria they had to meet in order to be accepted as an altar server. Neither of them ever felt the slightest calling or the slightest interest in being priests.

And in fact, my husband was an altar server for his university parish AFTER WE WERE ENGAGED.

So I’m not sure it makes sense to say “girls can’t be altar servers because it’s only for exploring priesthood and girls can’t be priests.”

I completely agree.
I began being an altar server at 10. I am still an altar sever an I’m 21…
I don’t really have vocation for priesthood.
Ive seen some girls serve too and I really don’t have a problem with that.
Many disagree though.