Girl Scouts?

[ComplineSanFran]

No concerns – the cookies are fabulous!

Totally agree. Thin Mints are my favorites.

For those of you who think that the Girl Scouts are supporting (financially and through endorsements) organizations that are opposed to Catholic teaching, do you have a ‘follow the money’ report to show this is the case? As a non-profit organization, there should be public records. (And I’m assuming that monies come from the top of the organization rather than local troops.)

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Totally agree. Thin Mints are my favorites.

For those of you who think that the Girl Scouts are supporting (financially and through endorsements) organizations that are opposed to Catholic teaching, do you have a ‘follow the money’ report to show this is the case? As a non-profit organization, there should be public records. (And I’m assuming that monies come from the top of the organization rather than local troops.)

You could ask the good archbishop for the documentation, or read the thread.

Either way the first person to send me a picture of thier troop outside a planned parenthood protesting or praying will make a huge cookie sale to me…I mean huge…

 

[pnewton]

You could ask the good archbishop for the documentation, or read the thread.

A bishop only has authority in one diocese. The point of the earlier poster, that he is not in the diocese, is valid. Even in the case above, the bishop expressed concerns about Girl Scouts, he did not ban them, though I seem to recall this has happened.

The last the USCCB has said on the subject is that there is some concern, but with the operations of Girl Scouts in some cases, not in toto, and the matter was referred back to the bishops. If one is in a diocese that allows their parish to sponsor a troop, then that is the last and final say on the matter for them, at least as far as anything from the Catholic Church is concerned. On may still decide to avoid them. I would say the only caution is that one should not condemn those that do support them if their priest and bishop do not see a problem.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

A bishop only has authority in one diocese. The point of the earlier poster, that he is not in the diocese, is valid. Even in the case above, the bishop expressed concerns about Girl Scouts, he did not ban them, though I seem to recall this has happened.

The last the USCCB has said on the subject is that there is some concern, but with the operations of Girl Scouts in some cases, not in toto, and the matter was referred back to the bishops. If one is in a diocese that allows their parish to sponsor a troop, then that is the last and final say on the matter for them, at least as far as anything from the Catholic Church is concerned. On may still decide to avoid them. I would say the only caution is that one should not condemn those that do support them if their priest and bishop do not see a problem.

Right but none of that changes the fact that the girl scouts support planned parenthood.

They either do or they don’t.
I must say I am quite biased against scouting. Both boys and girls. Nationally we are finding out that tying a secular organization to parish faith life might not have been a good idea. from gays to planned parenthood, scouting has lost its leadership on key moral issues which is ironic because leadership is what it is supposed to teach.
I find many scouting defenders are living in the past. This isn’t your grandpa and grandma’s scouts…
I would not put any of my girls in scouts, or my boys. There are better ways to raise strong Catholic men and women…

 

[pnewton]

Right but none of that changes the fact that the girl scouts support planned parenthood.

They either do or they don’t.

If it is an either or, then they don’t. Or they do, and all of us do. In any case, we only have to be responsible for our own conscience. We have no right to extend our conscience to others who may well have a better understanding of Catholic moral teaching than we do, especially those who are bishops and have studied this topic.

I for one believe scouting of great value still, here, my town, at this time. Yet I live in the present, not the past.

How does one actual “live in the past” anyway? I thought we haven’t yet invented time travel. But then maybe someone has and is here from the future.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Either way the first person to send me a picture of thier troop outside a planned parenthood protesting or praying will make a huge cookie sale to me…I mean huge…

You want a Girl Scout troop - 8 and 9 year old girls - protesting outside a Planned Parenthood building?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

You want a Girl Scout troop - 8 and 9 year old girls - protesting outside a Planned Parenthood building?

Sure… All of my kids have prayed outside a pp. they also March in the life marches…
Why wouldn’t they?

What would be the point of scouting if not to teach them to be strong valued women.

woild the Girl Scouts have s problem with this?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Sure… All of my kids have prayed outside a pp. they also March in the life marches…
Why wouldn’t they?

What would be the point of scouting if not to teach them to be strong valued women.

woild the Girl Scouts have s problem with this?

Without a doubt. It’s taking a political stance, a non-inclusive religious stance (some religions do not oppose abortion, not to mention the non-religious), and dealing with controversial issues that children that age cannot begin to understand.

 

[prstoessel]

Forget about the cookies and their support of PP…

In order to achieve the Gold Award, the highest honor as a Girl Scout, there is a module in their handbook called The Journeys. The very first printing of this module contained exceptionally harsh, anti-Catholicism sentiments. Subsequent printings had a reduced tone, but nevertheless contain language and lessons that are counter to Catholic teaching, including acceptance of LGBT lifestyle. There were website links in the books, cited as resources, that were nothing less than pornographicin nature.

We left after 9 years and started an American Heritage Girls troop in our parish.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Without a doubt. It’s taking a political stance, a non-inclusive religious stance (some religions do not oppose abortion, not to mention the non-religious), and dealing with controversial issues that children that age cannot begin to understand.

You either don’t have kids or are not familiar with scouting or both.

1. The entire point of scouting can be political in nature. Leadership is key. If you discount the cookies Girl Scouts are probably best known for civics and politics…
2. Individual troops tend to form with like minded people. Though all are welcome. In Boy Scouts I was the only non Mormon in my troop.
3. Kids understand abortion at that age. Any Catholic parish worth its salt has a pro life Sunday and or march. These are filled with kids.

Think of it this way, I’m sure Martin Luther King day is taught at some level where you live. The issue of life is equally complicated and important.
Don’t discredit children. Many times they understand complicated issues in a more holy manner than adults…
I know mine do.

 

[Brendan]

You want a Girl Scout troop - 8 and 9 year old girls - protesting outside a Planned Parenthood building?

My daughter’s American Heritage Girls troop does. They even have a badge for that

lifenews.com/2014/02/10/girl-scouts-alternative-american-heritage-girls-announces-new-respect-life-patch/

…that children that age cannot begin to understand.

Sure they can. An 8 year old can understand that killing a baby is wrong.

It’s taking a political stance, a non-inclusive religious stance (some religions do not oppose abortion, not to mention the non-religious)

Some religions allow slavery, would taking an stance on that issue be non-inclusive?

 

[Crown_of_Stars]

Sure… All of my kids have prayed outside a pp. they also March in the life marches…
Why wouldn’t they?

What would be the point of scouting if not to teach them to be strong valued women.

woild the Girl Scouts have s problem with this?

And seven is the age of reason. Eight and nine-year-olds definitely can understand the wrong of murdering a baby. As to whether the Girl Scouts, or rather anyone directly involved with Abortion, would have a problem with this… Definitely. After all, evil hates the light and hides in darkness, because they know their deeds are wrong. Fortunately, those of us who know the truth don’t have to hide and rather seek the light and bathe in it. Definitely I think children this age should do this. They need to know as soon as they’ve reached the age of reason just how wrong this really is.

 

[Crown_of_Stars]

My daughter’s American Heritage Girls troop does. They even have a badge for that

lifenews.com/2014/02/10/girl-scouts-alternative-american-heritage-girls-announces-new-respect-life-patch/

Sure they can. An 8 year old can understand that killing a baby is wrong.

Some religions allow slavery, would taking an stance on that issue be non-inclusive?

And an eight-year-old knows it’s a baby. Imagine that. It looks like a baby because it is a baby. Oh, how dare they “humanize” a fetus! Oh, the nerve of it! I know. So awful. It is a person, but…shhh…we don’t need to tell these grown-up adults that. They don’t think it’s a baby. Don’t ever let them see an ultrasound of a fetus. They’ll see that it looks like a baby. Grown-up enough to have sex…and suddenly become stupid and not know the “thing” inside of them is a baby! Can you believe it? What we’ve come to!

 

[GF_Girl]

As soon as I saw this thread my interest was piqued, I had wanted to be a girl scout growing up, but no troops were in my area. When I was about 13-14, my aunt started a troop, but I was almost too old to join, she made an exemption for me. I hung out with the girls and it was a bit awkward because I was the oldest but didn’t care about makeup or boys… But I did make a comment that one of the girls looked like a young actress in a Disney movie. They were teasing me that only babies liked Disney stuff. Because of my Celiac Disease, I had a big stomach, they threatened me that if I joined, they would tell everyone that I was pregnant. These were girls who ranged from 10-10-12 years of age. Then as I grew older and found out which organizations the Girl Scouts support/affiliated with, I could not support them. One more than one occasion, Girl Scouts have yelled at me to buy cookies because “I look like I eat a lot of cookies”. I am overweight, not so much from overeating but because I have PCOS. These girls are old enough to be respectful, or at least have their mothers correct them, but the don’t. If I marry one day and God blesses me with a little girl, I would not put her in the Girl Scouts, and I don’t buy their cookies because I am gluten-free. Just my two cents, probably not worth even that much though.

 

[Jesusonthecross]

Dude, don’t worry about it.
Just about half of the places you spend money at support bad things, like abortion (nike, starbucks, macys, and verizon off the top of my head) and gay marriage (another anti-catholic belief). As long as you yourself dont support it and you have no intention of helping these causes, your conscience is clean. God Bless you brother, and enjoy your cookies!

 

[crenfro]

Nice answer.

These two little girls will probably ask their mother what this meant. Their curiosity would definitely have been piqued. But for a good reason. They should know, and be told delicately, but by their own mother, if she chooses.

 

[losh14]

At my parish we buy boxes of girl scout cookies for our pastors, who love them!

I once brought my pastor a piece of the birthday cake my wife had made me. The recipe was called “Better than Sex” Cake. I don’t think it illicit, but I chuckled as I thought of it.

Ya, most of us are in a different one.
But what of the concerns?

I honestly think my Archbishop (Carlson is my Archbishop) is making the right call if the facts are as he says, but I’m not sure he’s got the facts right. The local organization has no affiliation with PP, and a lot of the talking points in his letter come from a site called mygirlscoutcouncil.com, which has some dubious research.

An employee of the diocese is going on a road show to the parishes showing pages from a book the Girl Scouts allegedly circulated among 2nd graders. The material would not be appropriate for a high schooler, much less a 2nd grader. But no one can name the book, the year it was printed, the last time it was circulated or even produce a copy of it - it’s all on a power point slide. It’s the kind of thing that, if true, should warrant more than a disaffiliation with the Girl Scouts, and it should be a criminal prosecution against the Girl Scouts. But somehow we’re only hearing about this salacious material now, so I’m wondering if the employee got it from a website and wanted to please his boss rather than do actual research.

I reached out to the diocesan office specifically about their concerns with transgender scouts, and the Girl Scouts’ openness going against Catholic teaching. The employee reported that there had been no actual incidents of a transgender student wanting to join a parish-based council, but the difference in perspective was the source of concern. In my mind, we’re convicting them before the crime has happened.

But at this point, it’s pretty moot. Some parishes have already done away with their councils - like literally, middle of the year said they can no longer use parish buildings or parish school buildings for meetings. Most will be done at the end of the school year. A few may keep the Girl Scouts on parish grounds for another year or two - as Matthew Kelly pointed out in “Four Signs of a Dynamic Catholic”, it’s 7% of the parish that does 90% of the work. At ours, it’s the Girl Scouts and their parents. The pastor knows he has to be careful in how he handles any transition to keep from losing that involvement. My daughter’s soccer team is forfeiting their game this Saturday so they can all be present in uniform for the annual Scout Mass, a way of saying “we’re with you if you’re with us.”

 

[commenter]

A bishop only has authority in one diocese. The point of the earlier poster, that he is not in the diocese, is valid. Even in the case above, the bishop expressed concerns about Girl Scouts, he did not ban them, though I seem to recall this has happened.

The last the USCCB has said on the subject is that there is some concern, but with the operations of Girl Scouts in some cases, not in toto, and the matter was referred back to the bishops. If one is in a diocese that allows their parish to sponsor a troop, then that is the last and final say on the matter for them, at least as far as anything from the Catholic Church is concerned. On may still decide to avoid them. I would say the only caution is that one should not condemn those that do support them if their priest and bishop do not see a problem.

Not true.
Just because a program was investigated, and found not bad enough to condemn, does not mean it is the best available choice. From a Catholic standpoint, the GSA is *not good *enough to endorse. It is reasonable for parents and parishioners to shop around for the best available alternative. American Heritage Girls, and Little Flowers, could offer the same benefits as GSA, but without the negatives, and their overall program is far more compatible with the Church youth ministry.

The fact that dioceses, and the USCCB, may maintain some contact with *people *in GSA does not mean any kind of endorsement. For instance, the Church reaches out to people who work in hospitals that perform abortions, to people in schools that never teach about God, etc. That does not mean the Church has no interest in replacing them with Catholic hospitals, or Catholic schools, if possible. In my diocese we offer the Religious Emblem program to individual girls who are currently in GSA, because that is where they are, regardless of what kind of place hosts the troop. We definitely are not saying GSA is the best place for them to be, just that that is where they are, for now.

That does rule out exploring better alternative programs for parish sponsorship.

 

[pnewton]

Not true.
Just because a program was investigated, and found not bad enough to condemn,

I have no idea what your are talking about is not true. The part you bolded most certainly is true. I did not think I needed to document it, but if needed, I can find the canon law that grants the bishop final compentency, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, over such matters.

Are you confusing opinions with facts?

 

[commenter]

I have no idea what your are talking about is not true. The part you bolded most certainly is true. I did not think I needed to document it, but if needed, I can find the canon law that grants the bishop final compentency, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, over such matters.

Are you confusing opinions with facts?

If a bishop says one program is not condemned, that does not mean it is the only possible one permitted. If laity find a comparable program that offers more advantages, it is appropriate for laity to say, we respect that option (GSA), but here are 2 other programs also not condemned, also permitted, that may be better. We think either of these other programs might be realistically implemented in our diocese. But we respect your decision as our bishop, whatever it is.

Lots of times a diocese or parish will phase out one program, which is still permitted, in order to implement another program found to be better. The pastor or bishop have the final say.
In my last previous post I obviously intended to put the word “not” in that last sentence.