Girls as Altar Servers

[Brendan]

Assuming he was right? Just because he was Pope doesn’t make him infallible on everything.

True, but I would be hesitant about any claims about the Canons issued by a Pope being ‘silly’.

Likewise, I would be hesitant about calling the liturgical practices of entire sui juris Catholic Churches (Churches in the full ecclesial sense, not simply parishes) as ‘stupid’, especially since the Bishops and Patriarchs of those Churches have more theological training that you and I will probably ever hope to have.

 

[Brendan]

This wasn’t done at the parish I went to. .

The parishes being referred to were the pre-Vatican II Latin Churches ( I specifically mentioned the convent boarding school that my mother went to in Ireland) and several of the Eastern Catholic Churches.

 

[Pound_Coolish]

I alter serve at my church. There is a random mixture of boys and girls, and from liturgical year to year there are different majorities of either boys or girls. I have experienced no difficulties with this and, though I skimmed this thread, still see little problem with it.
It is not necessarily distracting to have opposite genders serving with you, no more so than it would be to have them in the pew across from you.
As for the matter of girls sometimes serving far more often than boys, what problems can that cause? The Church is of necessity very male-centered (most of the Bible is about male figures and the priest is male etc) so why not let things be balanced a bit?

 

[oldcelt]

I find the part about keeping the girls separate from the sanctuary just stupid. If you are going to allow them to serve then they should be allowed the same places as the boy altar servers. Otherwise do it yourself… If a priest only wants male altar servers…then fine but they should deal with it if there are none…not create a half way of allowing the girls to do part.

It does suggest some rather unpleasant reasons for this segregation. Note that I only said suggest, but to me it hearkens back to OT cleanliness and segregation in Jewish worship during that time.

I once served because no trained servers were available. If I was still active I would support a gender neutral policy on servers

 

[Gia_B]

The Vatican says that there is a connection, and I would consider them to be the best source of information on priestly vocations

adoremus.org/CDW-AltarServers.html

This statement was part of the Vatican document that allowed altar girls in the first place

This is, of course, not a requirement that altar girls be prohibited, (the whole point of the document was the opposite).

What it DOES mean is that each parish has a Vatican directed obligation "to support groups of altar boys "

The question then becomes, how well are parishes fulfilling that obligation?

That doesn’t prove anything. It merely tells me that that is something that the Vatican assumes to be true and that you agree with it. Whether or not boy who were altar servers are more likely to become priests than boys who weren’t is a statistical issue (not a matter of faith or morals), so it is possible that the Church is mistaken. Just because enough people repeat something doesn’t make it true.

 

[pnewton]

At the end of the day, boys can still serve the altar. I have to agree with the previous poster that it should not effect vocations. God still does the calling and men must still answer. I think perhaps in a more segregated time, it might have been more of an issue, but as of now, boys and girls are mixed on so many levels already. I guess I still believe vocations begin at home.

 

[Megan7]

I think it depends on the parish. At ours, there is no shortage of boys.

This is a typical Sunday Mass at mine.

skydrive.live.com/?cid=D48DBDC01A7E8A7D&id=D48DBDC01A7E8A7D%21620&sc=photos

Thanks for the link. But, I am having a hard time getting it to open

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I think quite the reverse. The reason why girls can’t serve is because they cannot receive an ordination - the entire point of an ordination is that it’s an undeserved conferral to serve God, which reflects the celestial hierarchy on Earth (i.e. 9 ranks of ordination). Sadly, in the post-conciliar era of the Latin Church the concept of [minor] ordinations is lost, as is deeper value of ordinations. I would argue that because minor ordinations have been discontinued not even male servers should enter the sanctuary. It’s not the gender that matters but rather the fact that they’re assuming something that isn’t theirs for the service of God (i.e. ordination is a divinely sanctioned call to service). Comparable to when Aaron’s sons offer unauthorized fire and are smote for it.

See…that’s my whole point. It should be equal. If the Church says girls shouldn’t serve…then don’t have them do it and treat them as lesser when you do. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

 

[jimkhong]

No, girls were not permitted at all until 1994. At that point the Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretication of Texts reinterpreted the Latin word to mean that altar girls could be permitted, if a priest wishes. The boys-only rule had been increasingly ignored since the late 1970s.

I thought if it has to be allowed by the bishop in the first place.

 

[jimkhong]

I could be wrong, but I think the role of altar server is, among other things, supposed to get young men thinking about the priesthood. There may be other reasons to have male altar servers, but that’s the one I commonly hear.

I think you could be confusing altar servers with the acolyte, who used to have the same role as altar servers. Acolytes used to be the highest of the minor orders until minor orders are abolished (the four minor orders were replaced by the ministries of the acolytes and lectors). If I am not mistaken, seminarians are accepted (I don’t know the term but it is not ordained) into the two ministries before proceeding to the dioconate.

There are still acolytes serving at mass - you see them at papal masses.

 

[ProVobis]

I guess I still believe vocations begin at home.

Since stats show that the father has much more influence over the family’s church-going habits, it would make sense that he is also the one who would influence religious vocations as well. So you do make a valid point but one has to figure out how to influence the fathers now.

 

[TimothyH]

At the end of the day, boys can still serve the altar. I have to agree with the previous poster that it should not effect vocations. God still does the calling and men must still answer. I think perhaps in a more segregated time, it might have been more of an issue, but as of now, boys and girls are mixed on so many levels already. I** guess I still believe vocations begin at home.**

The red/bold is really the truth. Vocations begin in big families that live near each other with lots of kids.

Back in the day, immigrant families had lots of kids and tended to stay in one area. There were large extended families and it seemed like just about every Irish or Italian family had at least one relative who was a priest. It was seen as a normal choice because it was your cousin or uncle and not some guy in weird clothes whom you saw only on Sunday at Mass.

Nowadays we contracept and have small families, and everyone moves away from their extended families. No one knows a priest personally, or has one in their family.

-Tim-

 

[Brendan]

That doesn’t prove anything. It merely tells me that that is something that the Vatican assumes to be true and that you agree with it. Whether or not boy who were altar servers are more likely to become priests than boys who weren’t is a statistical issue (not a matter of faith or morals), so it is possible that the Church is mistaken. Just because enough people repeat something doesn’t make it true.

So who do you think would have the most accurate view of the common factors that bring about vocations?

You are correct, the Vatican believes that the statement that they made is factual. And I believe then, not the least of which is because they are the world’s imminent authority on the subject.

Likewise, if Stephen Hawking made a statement on the subject of Physics, I too would tend to believe him and not attempt to place my understanding of the subject over his.