Girls as alter servers

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George Waters:
No female sacristans, lectors, greeters, ushers or EMs then? Women can participate as long as it is only in the pews?

Did I say anything about that stuff? No. I’m talking about altar servers (a.k.a. the premature step for potentially joining the priesthood). The topic of the forum is GIRLS AS ALTAR SERVERS!
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I guess the author is following the “spirit” of Redemptionis Sacramentum, with about the same degree of fidelity as those who claim to follow the “spirit of Vatican II”.
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Oh, please. Just because the Church didn’t say “To anyone who doesn’t think that only boys should be altar servers, let them be anathema” doesn’t mean that they weren’t clear.

Just like Latin and Gregorian Chant should still have a place of primacy, yet the “progressives” tend to think that if the Church doesn’t all out condemn the practice, but allows it-then all of a sudden it should be standard. The vernacular was to be “allowed” but now it is practically standard. Gregorian Chant was to be preserved, but now many see nothing wrong with guitars and tambourines.

I’ll lay the charge of faulty interpretation right back at your door.
 
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AltarMan:
You can throw-up all the excuses for, and advantages of altar girls, but in the end they should be supressed so the position of altar server can be used to foster vocations to the priesthood and diaconate.
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And you can “throw-up all the excuses for, and advantages of” alter boys you want yet you have failed to show that the suppression of girl alter-servers will indeed foster vocations to the priesthood or diaconate.

Can you name one single boy in your parish that wants to be an alter-server and perhaps a priest that has been denied the opportunity to serve due to female involvement?

You have no evidence to support your claim and your accretion runs contrary to statements by several posters here that demonstrate unwillingness on the part of many boys to serve. Frankly the whole idea of denying future Sisters and Catholic Mothers (who will most likely have the greatest influence on their sons to respect the Church) is in my opinion un-Christian.
 
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ComradeAndrei:
Oh, please. Just because the Church didn’t say “To anyone who doesn’t think that only boys should be altar servers, let them be anathema” doesn’t mean that they weren’t clear.
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The Vatican was indeed clear: Altar boys are to be encouraged.

However, to jump from that statement to the conclusion that altar girls are to be discouraged is faulty logic. And to then support that faulty logic by modifying the Vatican’s words to include an extra “only” is following one’s own agenda as the spirit of Redemptionis Sacramentum.
 
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mrs_abbott:
George Waters:
No female sacristans, lectors, greeters, ushers or EMs then? Women can participate as long as it is only in the pews?

Did I say anything about that stuff? No. I’m talking about altar servers (a.k.a. the premature step for potentially joining the priesthood). The topic of the forum is GIRLS AS ALTAR SERVERS!
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Premature? Yes, it may be premature as female involvement has yet to be proven to detract from boys becoming priests.

My apologies for mentioning other areas of service, but if women shouldn’t be alter servers why should they be any of those other things?
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That’s exactly how I feel. It’s approved by Rome and therefore the way things are and we must follow the clergy’s decision. I share your view that altar serving is a nice window into the priesthood. I was raised with that concept and that’s why my mom let my brother serve mass but not me and I was perfectly alright with that. It just makes sense to me to have it as boys/men only. Jesus and the 12 apostles were men, afterall.
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AltarMan:
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I am well aware that it’s approved by the Holy See and I would be upset if a layperson in my parish was actively trying to stop females from serving (as they do with males around here) via backroom tactics.

I am however quite pleased to learn when either a bishop or priest instructs the use of male-only altar servers in their diocese or individual Masses.

The more I think about it though, the more I resent the sleazy genesis of allowing female altar servers – massive abuse. If these forums exist prior to approval by the Holy See, you can bet there would have been people actively supporting the ongoing abuse.

In the end though there is one thing that trumps everything else: There is no better way to foster vocations to the priesthood or permanent diaconate than by serving at the altar and that reason alone should make female altar servers all but nonexistant…
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George Waters:
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mrs_abbott:
Premature? Yes, it may be premature as female involvement has yet to be proven to detract from boys becoming priests.

My apologies for mentioning other areas of service, but if women shouldn’t be alter servers why should they be any of those other things?
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I’m not questioning women’s involvement in other areas of the church, which means I neither condone it or condemn it. I have neutral stance on that.
As I’ve said before, my main thing of allowing girls as altar servers takes up the spots that only the boys used to fill. In our parish, there are many boys who want to serve but can’t as much anymore because there are twice as many girls that want to so after everyone gets through the rotation, a boy maybe gets to serve three times a year, if he’s lucky.
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I have two daughters and one son. All three have been servers since they were in the fourth grade. My daughters have no delusions about becoming priests. I encouraged all of them to serve so they would develop a deeper reverence. It has changed their behavior at Mass tremendously. It has made them understand their religion on a much deeper level that I think will stick with them throughout their lives and go a long way in keeping them close to the church. I have had to fight the proper dress and footwear issue, but I believe it has helped their disipline issues overall because it is something they know I will never back down from. They seem to take better to disipline in all areas more readily now.

As for the other servers, we have a pretty equal number of boys to girls. Most of our servers are groups of siblings. I don’t think either gender is favored in the recruiting. A couple of years ago, in response to the struggle to get an adult to take on organizing and training of the servers they appointed a lead server for each team. The lead server (usually one beyond confimation age) is responsible for recruiting, training, and scheduling substitutes when necessary. Each team decided on a patron saint. The server schedule calls out each team only by its saint name. The lead servers appoint a new lead before they leave the service. The lead servers are given special crosses to wear while they serve which are given out during a special ceremony. Any time there is a special Mass such as First Communion, Midnight Mass or when the Bishop held a ground breaking for our new church only the lead servers are allowed to serve. All of these things seem to make the idea of serving a priviledge which helps recruit new children. Just last week we had a priest from another parish substitute for our pastor. When he was in the sacristy with the servers and EMHCs before Mass he didn’t realize his microphone was on. The whole church heard him asking the altar servers how our pastor keeps kids serving into high school. He said he can’t keep servers at his parish past the 8th grade.

When ever this topic comes up or the parallel one of the feminization of the church someone comments that more men and boys would participate if all the roles were male only. I don’t understand this concept. It seems like a huge insecurity problem.
 
George Waters:
And you can “throw-up all the excuses for, and advantages of” alter boys you want yet you have failed to show that the suppression of girl alter-servers will indeed foster vocations to the priesthood or diaconate.

Can you name one single boy in your parish that wants to be an alter-server and perhaps a priest that has been denied the opportunity to serve due to female involvement?

You have no evidence to support your claim and your accretion runs contrary to statements by several posters here that demonstrate unwillingness on the part of many boys to serve. Frankly the whole idea of denying future Sisters and Catholic Mothers (who will most likely have the greatest influence on their sons to respect the Church) is in my opinion un-Christian.
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You’re talking out of your hat.

The diocese of lincoln nebraska has been talked about on this thread. It has the largest number of seminarians per capota than any other diocese and it does not allow female altar servers.

So while it’s not conclusive, it’s far more than you have offered, which is nothing ,ore than personal conjecture.
 
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AltarMan:
It’s interesting to note that at my parish we have a shortage of “greeters” and “ushers” but a huge surplus of EMsHC…
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Well, as long as everyone has something to do:rolleyes: .
 
+JMJ+

I was wondering has there ever been a altar girl serve at St.Peter’s Basilica? :cool: Seriously wondering.
 
PROUD 2 B RC said:
+JMJ+

I was wondering has there ever been a altar girl serve at St.Peter’s Basilica? :cool: Seriously wondering.
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No freaking way!
 
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Catholic2003:
I’ve yet to hear of even a single case where a boy wasn’t allowed to serve at the altar because girls had filled up all the “slots”.
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100% agreed, people should consider themselves lucky to have many servers whether they are female or male. I wish my parish had many altar servers but there are only a few 😦 .

Podo
 
+JMJ+

I thought it was a no. 😃 I wonder why we have altar girls here but not at the Vatican.I personly think it should have stayed the same.If it aint broke dont fix it!But after all is said and done Rome has spoken and I will be loyal,I disagree but I will be loyal.But I do wish they would go back to the old ways.😦
God bless you and Mary keep you!
 
at our parish, the altar server group my girls are in is about 50/50 ( we have 4 different server groups, I don’t know the rest of them ). Of the about 16 kids in that group, ALL are accompanied by their mothers! Even the boys. I’ve talked to some of the moms, I didn’t notice any feminist radicals. And that in germany where there is a lot more - well feminism…They just want their kids to be involved and do something positive, boys and girls alike. The young man teaching them- together with our young priest- is also a server, and that’s great. It has NEVER crossed my mind to think of the girls as future priestesses, how absurd! I’m sort of liberal but I don’t think that there is a call for female priests that needs to be answered ( even though our pastor- not the young priest- has made comments about how he hopes benedict XVI will make that happen- can’t agree with him there, but that was the pastor, NOT the mothers! )
A little more tolerance, please AltarMan! Pretty please…
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AltarMan:
I’ll add one more thing. While some will discount the following as judemental, bigoted or just plain false, I’m simply reporting what I (and others) see.

At my parish if you attend an altar server orientation meeting (held at 7pm, which I have), 80-90% of the new potentail servers will be young girls. Without exception they will be accompanied by their mothers. Not by their fathers, and not by both parents. This is not true of male candidates.

While I have only been to a few such meetings (as an instructor), each and every mother that I have seen has been known sexist/feminist/“we need female priestesses” presences around the parish. It’s very clear that the mother are pushing their daughters to be servers. I would guess the wash-out rate is at least 90%, suggesting the girls weren’t too interested to begin with.

There is something deeply wrong with the notion of female altar servers and though approved (currently) by the Church, I see some definate practical negatives.
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AltarMan:
You’re talking out of your hat.

The diocese of lincoln nebraska has been talked about on this thread. It has the largest number of seminarians per capota than any other diocese and it does not allow female altar servers.

So while it’s not conclusive, it’s far more than you have offered, which is nothing ,ore than personal conjecture.
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Your right, that is not conclusive. Are you in the Lincoln diocese? If so, how are girl alter-servers a problem when you don’t have them? :rolleyes:

What do I need to offer evidence of? You are the one that claims having girls as alter-servers is detrimental. I have simply asked you to offer evidence of your claim, which you have continued to ignore!

You have no evidence and you know it so you keep regurgitating your personal conjecture than accuse others of doing just that while demanding evidence when the burden of proof is squarely on your shoulders.
 
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AltarMan:
I long ago rejected that excuse. Please see above.
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“HE has SPOKEN!!”

too bad its lame,boys or girls no difference bible says so
I dont stick with “tradition” tradition is not the word.
bet you all are gonna totally freak out when they start letting priests get married, instead of looking at it as dang now they will ACTUALLY know what marriage problems are when they stick thier 2 cents into my home life. ( figure of speech)

anyways its really a bogus arguement because the gals are allowed as should be…

What i find amusing is how many “women” have been trained to believe they are “nothing” within the church.and are speaking up to say they are nothing, they really should have more belief in themselves…

oh well i will hear it i am sure rofl…
John
 
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mrs_abbott:
George Waters:
I’m not questioning women’s involvement in other areas of the church, which means I neither condone it or condemn it. I have neutral stance on that.
As I’ve said before, my main thing of allowing girls as altar servers takes up the spots that only the boys used to fill. In our parish, there are many boys who want to serve but can’t as much anymore because there are twice as many girls that want to so after everyone gets through the rotation, a boy maybe gets to serve three times a year, if he’s lucky.
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AHHHH I am starting to see, My bet is you have some boys whom want to serve more often? tell you what move to my neck of the woods ill bet they can serve every other week at the least.
most likely every week.
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