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a_cermak
Guest
What about the possibility that girls who serve as altar servers will be more likely to foster vocations in their sons? It’s probably too early to tell as the practise isn’t that old.
Pax,
Amy
Pax,
Amy
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anna1978
Guest
I think it can be HELPFUL…ofcourse! But it just sounded to me that some writers really saw ‘male alter servers only’ as the end-al-and-be all, as if that in itself would bring to fruit lots and lots of vocations to the priesthood, and I just felt it wasn’t as simple as all that
.Anna x
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Annunciata
Guest
I don’t lie. Yes, I agree w/ you…there are bigger problems but that is not for this thread.
My sons grew up next door to the church and had some very holy priests as examples(not in my present parish)… my husband and I fostered an atmosphere of good Catholic culture in our daily living and they both attended Catholic schools…neither had a desire to become a priest! I would have loved that more than I can express…
We now have Altar girls which I’m not totally in favor of…but since it is happening and by the approval of our Bishops are we to tell all those sweet nice little girls who just want to serve Jesus…Go away???..we don’t want you because you are FEMALE! No my good man…that is not the answer…
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AltarMan
Guest
It’s one of the prime ways to foster vocations to the priesthood and permanent diaconate. It’s certainly not the only way.I think it can be HELPFUL…ofcourse! But it just sounded to me that some writers really saw ‘male alter servers only’ as the end-al-and-be all, as if that in itself would bring to fruit lots and lots of vocations to the priesthood, and I just felt it wasn’t as simple as all that
Anna x
If we were committed to doing absolutely everything we could to reduce the so-called “crisis of vocations”, we would limit serving at the altar to males. There would also be a great number of other changes as well…
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AltarMan
Guest
Are you sure they want to serve Jesus or are they being pushed into the breach to make a statement? If they truly want to serve Jesus, we must keep in mind that there are many other ways to do that.
In a practical sense, no, I would not stop girls from serving who were already servers if I was a pastor. I would quietly “grandfather” them into the altar serving program. From there I would recruit only males.
Keep in mind that such a change would only be done with a great deal of education and tact. I would eventually ignore those few chanting the mantra that serving at the altar does not foster priestly vocations…
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MrS
Guest
Personally… I M H O … I prefer the comment from Fr. John Corapi…
“If you don’t have vocations in your parish… it is the fault of the priest.”
I guess the buck starts with the pastor… and again IMHO… and must include the “attractiveness” or perhaps the “exclusiveness” of the male sanctuary.
Young men - not women - must be encouraged to say and think
“…I want to be like …”
when it comes to the priesthood. Unfortunately, they fill in the blank with “Mike” or whoever the current big-name music star, sports star, or moneymaker is.
“If you don’t have vocations in your parish… it is the fault of the priest.”
I guess the buck starts with the pastor… and again IMHO… and must include the “attractiveness” or perhaps the “exclusiveness” of the male sanctuary.
Young men - not women - must be encouraged to say and think
“…I want to be like …”
when it comes to the priesthood. Unfortunately, they fill in the blank with “Mike” or whoever the current big-name music star, sports star, or moneymaker is.
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cecelia
Guest
George Waters:
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BlackKnight
Guest
I have absolutely no problem with the girls altar servers in my parish. In fact they are better and more reverent than most of the the boys that serve and just plain do a better job.
Why is it that some feel that it is only for those boys discerning a possible priestly vocation, when some of these girls could be discerning a religious vocation as well, and this could well be a big factor. I’ve never heard anyone talk about that though. Maybe it’s time we started think, (and talking) in those terms to get the ranks of the faithful religious filled back up so that we can again have great teaching nuns and nursing nuns and all that the Holy Spirit will give us?
Why is it that some feel that it is only for those boys discerning a possible priestly vocation, when some of these girls could be discerning a religious vocation as well, and this could well be a big factor. I’ve never heard anyone talk about that though. Maybe it’s time we started think, (and talking) in those terms to get the ranks of the faithful religious filled back up so that we can again have great teaching nuns and nursing nuns and all that the Holy Spirit will give us?
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MrS
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You have missed the point by 180 degrees.
The sanctuary is a place that was long reserved for males… not because anyone was demeaning women, or repressing their desires to be of service to God.
Laity innovation has been the cause of females entering the sanctuary… as readers, as EMHC, as girl altar servers… and even as homilists in some misguided parishes.
If men ( and women ) see that it no longer matters who does what… is it any wonder that less and less want to serve?
The is not and has never been an obligation put on the shoulders of any young man to be an altar boy and then be a priest. I would hope that serving would instill a sense of honor in them that would even make them better fathers.
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rkberlin
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Amen! Thank you!
BlackKnight:
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Annunciata
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Thank you BlackKnight…at least you are a gentleman and from your post set an example of a real Catholic Christian…
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George_Waters
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Alterman,
I’m not emotional about this at all. In my opinion, your responses have been based far more on “emotion” than mine my friend. I ask you for evidence to support your claim that girls detract from ordained vocations and you accuse me of being emotional. Cute ploy, transparent, but cute.
Serving at the altar most likely does foster vocations to the priesthood and diaconate. I’m do not disagree. Never have. In fact I posted a quote that pretty much said that. Why would this upset me? Perhaps you should quit speculating on the possible beliefs and motivations of others and start realizing that if you are going to state a claim as a fact or “obvious truth” you would do well to have evidence. Without that it is an opinion. Period.
“One more time: altar fosters vocations to the priesthood and diaconate. Done.” Yes! Once again I agree! I am skeptical of your assertion that girls detract from ordained vocations. Do you have any evidence of your claim or is it simply your opinion? You are entitled to your opinion, but if it is only your opinion, please be enough of a Catholic gentleman to admit that.
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GeorgiaCatholic
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“…the presence of girls at the altar alters the holiness, the sacredness, and the sublimeness of what is transpiring at the altar…”
This is exactly the attitude that makes it difficult not to conclude that the church has a problem with females especially to a young girl trying to find her place in the religion. As I said earlier, I and my daughters have no delusions about female priests, but this attitude makes it hard to believe that the church does not feel that females are not of equal worth and dignity to males. I want to believe it doesn’t, but this makes clinging to that belief hard. I believe females can be seen to have equal worth even if the roles they fill are not the same. I can buy the idea that the altar “boy” experience fosters candidates to the priesthood. I can even buy that boys won’t want to do it if any girls are allowed although I think that reflects a problem with the boys and a problem those boys will have when they need to shepard women in their priesthood. What I can’t buy is that God and the church rather than just some of it’s members believe that the meer presence of girls diminishes the holiness of the sacrifice taking place on the altar.
This is exactly the attitude that makes it difficult not to conclude that the church has a problem with females especially to a young girl trying to find her place in the religion. As I said earlier, I and my daughters have no delusions about female priests, but this attitude makes it hard to believe that the church does not feel that females are not of equal worth and dignity to males. I want to believe it doesn’t, but this makes clinging to that belief hard. I believe females can be seen to have equal worth even if the roles they fill are not the same. I can buy the idea that the altar “boy” experience fosters candidates to the priesthood. I can even buy that boys won’t want to do it if any girls are allowed although I think that reflects a problem with the boys and a problem those boys will have when they need to shepard women in their priesthood. What I can’t buy is that God and the church rather than just some of it’s members believe that the meer presence of girls diminishes the holiness of the sacrifice taking place on the altar.
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BlackKnight
Guest
If men ( and women ) see that it no longer matters who does what… is it any wonder that less and less want to serve?
The is not and has never been an obligation put on the shoulders of any young man to be an altar boy and then be a priest. I would hope that serving would instill a sense of honor in them that would even make them better fathers.I don’t at all see how I missed any such point.
The remarks that you make seem to be more opinion than common sense logic. (especially the underlined parts above.)
What misguided parishes do is not the issue, nor is that within the scope of our authority to deal with aside from notifying the local bishop when we find such errors. The altar servers cannot be blamed for that in any way, nor is the presence of the girls in their ranks responsible for that.
Non-sequitur. The fact is that so few want to serve because parents and friends and just rank and file Catholics have largely stopped encouraging it in many places.
One thing to ask ourselves here is, “Am I involved in my parish as a reader, greeter, usher, sacristan, or in Faith Formation, RCIA, or a teaching need that exists?” If not then shame on us for not setting a good example for the rest of the parish by doing our part. Have we talked to our children about being an altar server and what it means? I wonder how many of us are really doing our parts to meet the needs of our parish instead of just sitting here on our backsides “having discussions” on a Catholic forum? Face it people, if we’re not carrying what we have learned here in CAF out into active, joyful, and full participation in our parishes, then what’s the point?
You’re quite right about one thing though… We DO need more good Catholic fathers, both in the sacrament of Matrimony and Holy Orders. Just as we need more and more faithful Catholic mothers, whether married to good Catholic men, or to Our Lord Himself.
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ChemicalBean
Guest
Please explain how the presence of girls near the altar makes the Eucharist any less:
1.) holy
2.) sacred
3.) sublime
As you have said, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is not just the re-presentation of the Last Supper, but of Christ’s death on the cross and his Resurrection. Indeed, it re-presents the entire Paschal Mystery.
As for the presence of women here, they abound. Did not Veronica, a young woman, assist Jesus the Priest and Victim during his way of the cross? Didn’t his closest women disciples (including his mother) stay nearest to him during his crucifixion, the bodily sacrifice? (If I recall all the men deserted him.) And didn’t the risen Jesus first identify himself to the women who came looking for his body, instructing them to go tell everyone else?
Christ is the perfection and fulfillment of the revelation of God from the Old Testament. The New Testament sacrifice cannot be the same!
The alb is the liturgical vestment proper to us all. It symbolizes our baptism. If they were, say wearing stole and chasuble, then they would look like priests. In fact, if cassock and surplice is garb proper to the ordained, then no child should be wearing it, girl or boy.
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AltarMan
Guest
It’s remarkable just how powerful the forces of PCism and sexism/feminism are in the Church, else this entire thread would be moot as there wouldn’t be any female altar servers if the faithful actually placed the Church ahead of their own desires…
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ChemicalBean
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There have been LOTS of threads in this forum on this subject.
Check an earlier post of mine back from September on this topic.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=959107&postcount=59
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AltarMan
Guest
While altar girls are certainly (currently) allowed by the Church under most circumstances, their use is certainly not mandated, nor is it even recommended (as it certainly is with males.) I think the primary reasons for not allowing female altar servers is quite clear:
- They fill-up slots that should be reserved for males who might just possibly be discerning a call to the priesthood or permanent diaconate. Because serving at the altar has historically been such an important means to foster such vocations, all altar server slots should be reserved for male.
- The use of altar girls was approved as a response to gross abuse and dissent. That’s a horrible foundation for any change. Until the Holy See once again restricts altar serving to males, it makes sense not to perpetuate the rather sleazy basis for the current situation.
- Females cannot serve in all the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Unity on this issue is important, and I hardly see the Easterners allowing female servers en masse.
- It promotes false expectations and hopes. “If women can serve, why can’t they be priests…?”
- It ruins a wonderful tradition that wasn’t hurting anything – except perhaps the egos of some sexist/feminists.
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rwoehmke
Guest
What you say about altar girls may be true, but then I have to look at many of our parishes and ask who carries the load on many parish councils and committees, who are our teachers in Catholic Schools, why does it seem that more women are attending Mass on both weekdays and Sundays, how many women work in our chancery offices and so on and so forth? We men may have the priesthood and the hierarchy, but it is by and large a female dominated Faith. So…I guess what would you expect under the circumstances? 
Oh yeah and even our choirs are predominately made up of females with a couple of males for tenor and bass.
Oh yeah and even our choirs are predominately made up of females with a couple of males for tenor and bass.
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George_Waters
Guest
We should always place the will of Holy Mother Church above our own desires. I agree with that.
The Church allows girls to serve at the alter in every parish in the United States except two and in most parishes in Western Europe. We simple support the decision of his late Holiness John Paul II as the Vicar of Christ and the leader of the Roman Catholic Church. Remember it wasn’t a bunch of selfish little girls that made that decision.
Because many of us support this we are not agents of sexism or feminism. We simply support the Church. If what is supported coincidences with a persons desire that is fine. You support the dioceses that do not allow girls to serve. That coincides with your desires, does that make it bad? No, it does not. I am curious, will you continue to support those dioceses if a later bishop reverses that decision?
What we must guard against is those who claim a decision by the Church is an abuse or should be suppressed. We should support all decisions of the Church if we agree or not. That is obedience.
May God Bless you all.
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