Girls Joining Boy Scouts. Is this a feminist move to suppress young men and boys?

[Mustard1]

There are MANY college scholarships for those who earn Eagle Scout. There is not nearly the level of scholarship opportunity for a Girl Scout “gold” award.

If girls want the gold award to allow them to have the same opportunities as those with Eagle rank, then CHANGE THE REQUIREMENTS.so they meet the same level of expectations. (the lobbying again). If these changes help make girls more successful, then the GS-USA should see these as no brainers and make the changes.

 

[po18guy]

Having examined the “movement” since the early 70s, I have concluded that it has nothing to do with equality. It is about supremacy.

 

[jack63]

Granted I think boy and girls should stay separate within a Troop…i.e. separate patrols and camping events, etc. Aside from this, I actually have no problems with having boys and girls in the BSA. I am an old Boy Scout. For the most part it was a good experience.

On the positive side instead, in the future a man who had a good experience in scouting could share these experiences on a date. Instead of getting a woman very confused because she cannot relate, she now could share her similar experiences in the same program.

 

[1ke]

How so, what do you mean by structured differently?

Boy Scouts (BSA) is hierarchical, and kids are grouped by rank while GS are grouped by age. BS have to earn rank through badges, and that is structured nationally. In GS, they can do whatever they want as a troop.

There are fundamental differences in the way the troops interact with families and encourage family participation at meetings rather than a "drop your kids off’ philosophy which GS has.

GS and BS also fundamentally have different philosophies.

 

[1ke]

If girls want the gold award to allow them to have the same opportunities as those with Eagle rank, then CHANGE THE REQUIREMENTS.so they meet the same level of expectations. (the lobbying again). If these changes help make girls more successful, then the GS-USA should see these as no brainers and make the changes.

Well, I won’t hold my breath for 100 years. The GSA has had an acrimonious relationship with BSA from the beginning in the USA. The GSA isn’t interested in changing their Gold Award.

And colleges aren’t interested in giving scholarships for earning it.

 

[1ke]

I don’t really have a dog in this hunt. I never made it out of Brownies because I thought GS were boring, and I didn’t want to wear the uniform to school because I thought it was dorky.

My sister loved GS and did a lot with them all the way through high school.

My brother made Eagle Scout. And my dad was very involved with BSA.

it’s totally different. I actually like the BSA model better.

But this isn’t a nefarious plot. This is the BSA adapting to the current times, the desires of families to have family involvement but fewer different places and activities to run around to, and a change to bolster their membership.

The model that worked 100 years ago may not work now, and BSA is changing while GSA is sitting with their fingers in their ears yelling “la la la, I can’t hear you.”

 

[catholiclala]

I don’t really have a dog in this hunt. I never made it out of Brownies because I thought GS were boring, and I didn’t want to wear the uniform to school because I thought it was dorky.

My sister loved GS and did a lot with them all the way through high school.

My brother made Eagle Scout. And my dad was very involved with BSA.

it’s totally different. I actually like the BSA model better.

But this isn’t a nefarious plot. This is the BSA adapting to the current times, the desires of families to have family involvement but fewer different places and activities to run around to, and a change to bolster their membership.

The model that worked 100 years ago may not work now, and BSA is changing while GSA is sitting with their fingers in their ears yelling “la la la, I can’t hear you.”

Good points. I’m just learning from this thread that it seems GSA does not want to evolve. I’m not sure the solution, in that case. I’m not opposed to a co-ed model but still think there is value in having spaces for children of each sex to bond together on non-trivial things and not default to performing arts or team sports.

 

[1ke]

I’m not opposed to a co-ed model but still think there is value in having spaces for children of each sex to bond together on non-trivial things

And wisely BSA has adopted that model.

Local dens and troops can choose between single sex or co-ed dens and troops.

So, boys can be in an all-boy troop. And girls can be in an all girl troop. And they can come together for some activities and be separate for others.

 

[catholiclala]

And wisely BSA has adopted that model.

Local dens and troops can choose between single sex or co-ed dens and troops.

So, boys can be in an all-boy troop. And girls can be in an all girl troop. And they can come together for some activities and be separate for others.

That doesn’t sound so bad if it’s a democratic decision. So there can be an all girl Boy Scout troop? Or no, the options are co-ed or all boy?

 

[babochka]

I am involved in the Boy Scouts of America, and quite frankly, girls joining our troops has started to scare me. The whole point of the Boy Scouts program is to raise strong young men who are moral, ethical and full of self-confidence. But girls being let into the program has endangered this.

Does your troop have girls? Because girls are not allowed in boys’ troops. They should have separate troops with the same programming.

I’m not sure how having girls’ troops with the goal of raising strong, ethical, moral and self-confident young women suppresses men and boys.

I do think that young men and young women need separate spaces in which to grow and mature. I am glad that BSA is going to continue to provide that environment, while opening up their excellent programming to girls.

My teenage daughter tried out a number of options available to her: she briefly joined a Girl Scout troop, but I was uncomfortable with their close ties to Planned parenthood and my daughter, who is not much of a girly girl, did not care for their programming. We tried American Heritage Girls, but really wanted something with more of an outdoor/camping focus and something with a more developed infrastructure for camps. She’s now happily in a BSA girls troop. The BSA model works for her in a way that the others did not. They meet on the same nights as the boys and they come together for fundraising, but they are definitely separate. They have their own leadership and their own meetings. They make their own schedule and plan their own activities.

According to the BSA site, the dens and troops for Cubs and Scouts can be separated by sex or they can be co-ed.

This is not quite accurate. Cub Scout dens can be co-ed or single-sex, but Scout troops must be single-sex.

BSA's Organization Name Not Changing, and Other Facts to Know and Share - Scouting Wire

The Boy Scouts of America organization name will continue to be Boy Scouts of America. It is not changing. Reports started circulating on Wednesday, May 2, concerning the update to the Boy Scout program name.

scoutingwire.org

Troop structure will remain single gender, meaning a Scouts BSA troop will be made up of all boys or it will be made up of all girls. There will be no co-ed or mixed troops . Boys and girls will not be in troops together. Boys will be in troops with only boys, and girls will be in troops with only girls.

 

[babochka]

Good points. I’m just learning from this thread that it seems GSA does not want to evolve. I’m not sure the solution, in that case. I’m not opposed to a co-ed model but still think there is value in having spaces for children of each sex to bond together on non-trivial things and not default to performing arts or team sports.

BSA has not gone to a co-ed model. They continue to offer only single-sex troops at the scout level. They are now offering the effective and time-tested programming to girls as well as boys. Along with this comes the resources of the organization, which would not be available to start-up groups trying to replicate the model for girls.

 

[1ke]

So there can be an all girl Boy Scout troop?

Yes.

At cub scouts they are all girl Cub Scout dens.

At the next level they are all girl Scout BSA troops (instead of “Boy Scout troop”).

See this infographic:

https://i9peu1ikn3a16vg4e45rqi17-wp...s/2018/05/Family-Scouting_Infographic_v11.pdf

And this infographic:

https://i9peu1ikn3a16vg4e45rqi17-wp...ds/2019/02/Family-Scouting-Program-Update.pdf

And this Cub Cast podcast:

January 2018 - What Does the Cub Scout Family Program Look Like? - BSA Podcasts

It’s 2018 and the Boy Scouts of America is introducing the new Family Program! You probably know that means girls will now be allowed into the Cub Scouting program, but you might be wondering how it’s all going to work. As National Alliances Team Lead, Lee Shaw has had to work closely with all...

podcast.scouting.org

 

[1ke]

This is not quite accurate. Cub Scout dens can be co-ed or single-sex, but Scout troops must be single-sex.

Ah yes, I didn’t explain that well.

The infographic makes it more clear.

 

[babochka]

This troubles me quite a bit. If GS doesn’t support what girls want and need, then what is the point? If they wanted to prove themselves, then they could have changed the programs they offered, such as promoting more outdoor activities. I actually know some girls scouts who recently joined a BSA troop, because their girl troop didn’t do any outdoor activities. They told me a story about how during a meeting, they voted on what they wanted to do for their next trip and one of then said, “we don’t have to do anything crazy, maybe just a hike ?” And this was met with wide disapproval, and lost in opposition to going to a salon . When I hear this, it just makes me think that there is just a smaller amount of girls who want to do outdoorish activities such as hiking, backpacking, and climbing.

This is precisely why my daughter joined a BSA troop as soon as it was available to her.

@1ke has done an excellent job of explaining the fundamental differences between BSA programs and GS-USA programs. Their approach is very different and not a good fit for all girls.

 

[babochka]

When sitting and listening is getting to be a problem, we end that class and do something else instead. We get out in the yard and dig, and explore, and do experiments, and do target practice with air rifles. He gets outside and burns off all that energy. And he learns, and learns well.

That’s interesting. It is a very similar approach that I take with my daughter, who has ADHD.

 

[catholiclala]

I’m glad to get these further details. I’m not opposed to the idea now. Maybe they could do a name change to just Scouts of America? It is misleading when you hear girls are joining and the rest is not clear.

 

[1ke]

Maybe they could do a name to just Scouts of America?

Well they might do that if GSA would stop filing lawsuits against them.

 

[catholiclala]

Well they might do that if GSA would stop filing lawsuits against them.

So American, haha!

 

[Mustard1]

I’m not sure how having girls’ troops with the goal of raising strong, ethical, moral and self-confident young men suppresses men and boys.

I’ve noticed that since the girls have joined the program that the same phrase is used to encourage the boys in these troops, “The girls are doing this, how come we’re not?” At least in my troop. Recently, one of the adult leaders, said: “We need to get it together and plan online patrol meetings and troop meetings, our sister troop already had one.” I absolutely despise when people try to use this as encouragement, especially when it can be interpreted in different ways, and when it is related to sex. One interpretation is “the girls are way better than the boys” (possibly chipping away at confidence, already being chipped away by feminism). Back to the story, our troop already had three patrol meetings before the sister troop (my troops opposite). This part is also alarming. The adults have been affected by tunnel vision because they are girls, they look more closely at the girls and less at the boys. In the end, criticizing the boys for not stepping it up when it wasn’t true. These little things start to eat away, and eventually, there isn’t anything left.
(something I forgot to mention clearly is that my troop has a sister troop, and we share the same board and everything associated with that). A second challenge the troop has to deal with is that the boy troop has over 40 scouts, which is 4x more than the girls troop, giving the boys a slight disadvantage.

Another thing I find heartbreaking is that the girls’ troop has been receiving a huge amount of help from the adult leaders(in other troops as well), and they have been advancing in rank just like that (imaginary snap). The girls’ troop is made of 5 girls, and they are signing off on requirements too quickly, just to catch up to the boys so they can “prove themselves”, keep in mind, they sped through the requirements not actually taking all the time to go through all the crucial steps of advancement, in the end and in simple terms, “They Cheated Eagle”. After all, why be in the Boy Scouts to achieve Eagle, if you’re not doing for the experience, but just so you can rub it in the boy troops face. I know not all female boy scouts are like this, but this obviously a feminist power move.

Lastly, many adult leaders see a girl, and right away go into “girl mode”, which consists of “I have to very nice because of their girls”, and “I need to help them beat the boys”, kind of mentality. This again goes back to suppression, and “Cheating Eagle”, which in the end will never help anybody.

 

[babochka]

I absolutely despise when people try to use this as encouragement, especially when it can be interpreted in different ways, and when it is related to sex. One interpretation is “the girls are way better than the boys” (possibly chipping away at confidence, already being chipped away by feminism).

You can always choose to interpret it in the most generous way.

Another thing I find heartbreaking is that the girls’ troop has been receiving a huge amount of help from the adult leaders(in other troops as well), and they have been advancing in rank just like that (imaginary snap).

It takes a lot of work to get a troop up and running and none of the girls have any experience. In my daughter’s troop, for example, none of the girls met the requirements to be SPL. They had to waive the requirement that the SPL needs to at least hold the rank of 1st Class. There are only 5 girls in the troop and the SPL is only 11 years old. Obviously, she lacks both experience and maturity. There does need to be a bit more hand-holding and adult guidance to make this work. Hopefully, it will require less over the next couple of years. Yes, the adults are invested in this and don’t want the girls’ troop to flounder over lack of support.

Do you feel that the adults are not giving the boys troop adequate support? Has that been a problem in the past? Does the boys troop need the kind of support that the girls are now getting?

and they have been advancing in rank just like that (imaginary snap). The girls’ troop is made of 5 girls, and they are signing off on requirements too quickly, just to catch up to the boys so they can “prove themselves”, keep in mind, they sped through the requirements not actually taking all the time to go through all the crucial steps of advancement, in the end and in simple terms, “They Cheated Eagle”.

Do you know for certain that they are cheating? Or is this just your interpretation because you can’t imagine that they would progress so quickly? The older girls especially might be highly motivated because they don’t have much time. Obviously, if they are actually cheating, that is not acceptable and should be brought to the attention of the council. But if they are simply making sign-offs and rank advancement a priority, more power to them. It is possible to get Eagle in 2 years if you are motivated and these girls don’t have the luxury of taking 6 years to get there.

One sign that the girls are particularly motivated is that they’ve already set up online meetings. I’m sorry that someone is turning this into a boys vs. girls competition, but it really isn’t. Just ignore what the girls are doing and do your own thing. What they are doing doesn’t have to affect your troop in any way. If the adult leadership is turning this into a competition, that is a separate issue.