Girls (or boys) night out if married?

[a_priori]

I’m a guy with grey hair in his fifties. When I go to dinner for business purposes and spend any time at the bar, there is often a gaggle of predatory woman in their late twenties or early thirties that seem to take an interest in our party. With a little “encouragement” from the inevitable wayward colleague we are sometimes besieged. Last time a woman young enough to be my daughter thought it was ok to be tactile then said to me “Don’t you think tonight is a good night to say yes?”. When attractive young women take an interest like that in a group of old f*rts, something is out of whack. My user name should have been “anachronism” I think. I don’t need or want a “night out”. I married my wife 30 years ago because I wanted to be with her and nothing has changed. When I go out I want her with me.

 

[samovila]

My girlfriends and I try to do girl’s night once/month. Most often we get together at someone’s house, have dinner (sometimes kids are there, too), and usually wine. Once in a while we all go out to a bar or restaurant. It’s refreshing to get out and feel young and alive again. I’ve got a 2 year old and a 6 month old who suck all the energy out of me most days. To get dressed up and go out really recharges my batteries. I guess the difference is that none of us are “man chasing.” We pretty much go for drinks and tell old stories and laugh. We are all Catholic. Three of us are married and one is a young widow.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’m a guy with grey hair in his fifties. When I go to dinner for business purposes and spend any time at the bar, there is often a gaggle of predatory woman in their late twenties or early thirties that seem to take an interest in our party. With a little “encouragement” from the inevitable wayward colleague we are sometimes besieged. Last time a woman young enough to be my daughter thought it was ok to be tactile then said to me “Don’t you think tonight is a good night to say yes?”. When attractive young women take an interest like that in a group of old f*rts, something is out of whack. My user name should have been “anachronism” I think. I don’t need or want a “night out”. I married my wife 30 years ago because I wanted to be with her and nothing has changed. When I go out I want her with me.

:clapping: *what a beautiful post…and congrats on your longlasting and loving marriage! My thoughts, too. *

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

No I definitely wouldn’t do that. For one, like others have said, it could be a near occasion of sin or a cause for scandal. But mainly, it sounds like a bad time (assuming I’m behaving morally). The thought of going out with my friends - girls night out style - means girls spending time with each other. If I went out with some girlfriends, and rather than pay attention to me, they found it more fitting to flirt with guys, I’d be bored and offended (unless of course, I’m flirting too, in which case, I’ve got bigger problems). My time is too precious to be used as a prop or safety for someone else’s pick up scene. Let your single friends pick up guys on their own time, and give you the attention a friend deserves by doing a “girls night out” free from the opposite sex.

 

[OSUbride0708]

I am the only one of my friends who is married and who has a child. I probably won’t be going out to bars ever again, but I still plan on spending time with my friends (even though they are all single). I see nothing wrong with it, and I actually think I set a good example for them.

 

[chevalier]

Situation: Woman is married (Catholic) w/ 2 kids (5 and 3). She works full-time (her choice & husband’s). Husband (Catholic) works full-time too. Several of her friends are unmarried and prone to man-chasing when out on the town.

Should this woman (morally and w/ respect for her husband’s feelings) go out on girls’ nights (bar scene) with her unmarried/man-chasing friends?

If you were the husband, would you be comfortable with this situation?

What alternatives (if any) would be advisable as a compromise if the woman indicates she needs some ‘girl time’ away from her hubby & kids (not just one or the other, but both simultaneously)?

Man-chasing is not something a married woman should do, but at the same time man-chasing by her friends is not something she becomes guilty of by association. Just being present when they’re man-chasing doesn’t mean she man-chases too. Bottom-line, if she’s with them and they’re man-chasing, that’s a tremendous waste of time because she has nothing to do while keeping friends company.

Whether I would be comfortable with it, being the husband in that situation, would depend on how comfortable I felt in the relationship in the larger sense, including how secure I were.

So, generally, if I were married to a woman who acted flirtaciously around other men, I obviously wouldn’t feel happy about any kind of socialising that were prone to that. One night out of the kind would obviously be a small problem on the scale of problems already present.

Also, if I were married to a woman who experienced a change of personality around her friends, acted compulsively about them, such as having a compulsion to please them and not wanting to work on breaking that compulsion, preferring to spend the time with them instead of with me (or not preferring but doing it regardless), then I’d be worried too and again, that one night out would be a small problem on the scale.

Then, if there were nothing of that kind, I’d probably still wonder whatever made her want to go and spend time with friends who are prone to man-chasing when out. That kinda strikes me as a rather empty diversion, which should put a strong dent in the desire to spend time with those friends one needs to catch up with - while obviously one does need to catch up with friends from time to time.

An alternative would be spending some time with her husband actually, such as having a night out (or in), which is probably going to be more rewarding to her anyway. As far as friends go, either choosing a more productive way of spending time or finding friends who spend time in more productive ways as a rule.

As for compromise, I don’t like it. I like to solve problems at the root. Compromise deals with results, while I want to work with principles.

And I’m curious as to why compromise is at all mentioned here. Is there a problem? A wife should be happy to spend time with her husband and should be internally motivated to respect their fidelity, so if something seemed to undermine that respect, she should have a problem with that, not just her husband. At the same time, a husband should trust his wife and shouldn’t feel bad about her having friends and spending time with them. If there is a problem, it suggest something’s not working the right way here. So what’s te underlying problem?

 

[petitfleur]

A frien of my DH’s wife goes to a local bar every wed night. I dont know what kind of friends she has but she has been having an affair with someone she met in the bar. They have three kids. I know he is torn up inside. Not a good situation to put yourself in.

 

[Luvs2Learn]

I have to put my 2 cents in on this one…
typicaly my girlfriends from my Parishes mommmy and me group do a ladies night out once a month. we go to dinner at a different resturant each month, we chat, we eat, we laugh,we unwind, and we go home!

last year an oldfriend of mine who lives in the city had me over for a visit. She is single and had a whole night planned. First we went to dinner with a bunch of her friends, 1 married couple came and some single girls and guys came as well. We had fun.It was low key. Then afterwards my friend and her other single friend decided it would be fun to check out a party that some friend of a friend was throwing. As we were going up the elevator a few men were getting off the elevator. My friends friend told them to come check out the party. they said ok, maybe later. About 20 minutes later one of the men from the elevator came to the party. He came over to us and started to chat. I stepped aside and let my friend flirt. But somehow, he kept trying to converse with me. ( I can be clueless at times) I suddenly realized he had not come to the party to flirt with my friend or her friend, but to flirt with me
It was soooo awkward. I tactfully slipped in a line about me having a great time but I had to get home soon, as my husband was babysitting the 3 kids by himself.
The whole evening felt odd. It was nice to catch up with my old friend, but next time I think I will just have her come out to the suburbs!

 

[BiologyBrain]

Thanks for all your replies!

As for compromise, I don’t like it. I like to solve problems at the root. Compromise deals with results, while I want to work with principles.

And I’m curious as to why compromise is at all mentioned here. Is there a problem? A wife should be happy to spend time with her husband and should be internally motivated to respect their fidelity, so if something seemed to undermine that respect, she should have a problem with that, not just her husband. At the same time, a husband should trust his wife and shouldn’t feel bad about her having friends and spending time with them. If there is a problem, it suggest something’s not working the right way here. So what’s te underlying problem?

Compromise is on the table b/c a trusted priest, when the couple went to him for counselling told the woman it was entirely acceptable to go out w/ her friends. I wasn’t present, but I’m very confident that the fact wasn’t made clear that the friends in question are single, man-chasers, who just want to ‘sow wild oats’. The husband in question is very concerned as well b/c the wife has a co-worker who just went through a divorce that she’s friendly with. I know there’s nothing wrong w/ being friendly w/ a divorcee, but going to a man’s house alone in this type of situation strikes me as crossing the line into scandal and abuse of trust.

There are some underlying problems w/ the marriage sometimes - mostly on her parent’s dislike/disagreement of the husband’s methods of raising the children. The wife listens more to books & her parents when it comes to questions about raising the children. The husband has very little if any final say in anything. He’s a very upright moral man & typically I’d say the same of her. However, she tends to coddle the boys and follow them around constantly (like they’re going to get hurt in the yard or something). The husband spends lots of time w/ the kids & is more than willing to lend a hand around the house. He wants to take the boys out camping, fishing, biking, etc as well as encourage their academic/imaginative development. However, he tends to tell them the rules then let them decide whether they’re going to make mistakes (which generally ends up biting them in the hiney - ie ‘don’t jump on the couch’ they do, then someone falls and hurts himself) or follow the rules. When the wife is present both boys hang off of her, won’t go to anyone else, etc. When the husband is alone with them (at someone else’s house) the boys play, interact with everyone, and generally do boy/kid things.

When they went to the priest, they were trying to come to some common ground, but at the time, the priest only listened to the wife’s side of the story. The husband & his family have a long relationship with this priest and the priest uses that against them sometimes. He made a statement to the effect of ‘your mother was a strong, overpowering individual, you need to not be like that’ before anything else was discussed. Which, in my opinion (this same priest has said something similar to me in front of my husband), isn’t a good way of dealing w/ marital conflict - automatically assuming that the person you ‘know’ is in the wrong without hearing both sides of the issue (or even one). In my instance, one of his other pieces of advice was that needed to be strong and stand up for myself. I call that conflicting advice and not conducive to actually solving the problem.

 

[BiologyBrain]

As a married woman (been married for 2.5 years) I would not go out to bars w/ single friends. The other suggestions some of you gave are much more on the level of what I’d do w/ single (or married) friends. The bar scene wasn’t my scene when I was single anyway, but when people around me are ‘on the hunt’ I tend to be turn off. I don’t think a mother and wife should necessarily want to do that type of thing. I would definitely not want my husband to do so. I don’t think its all about trust - I think a lot of it is respect for your spouse.Yes, there are some things a woman can talk about better w/ another woman, but shouldn’t the confidante’ at least be morally on the level w/ the woman? I know the single women in question here & even as a single I was not entirely comfortable around them. You know that 80s song “Man Eater” - well, one of the women in question seems to take that to heart. It just makes me uncomfortable and I completely understand why the husband in question is uncomfortable and puzzled by this interaction as well. If the husband had friends who were known skirt chasers, I would be just as uncomfortable with him going out for a night on the town w/ them. It just shows a lack of respect to the spouse IMO.

 

[chevalier]

Compromise is on the table b/c a trusted priest, when the couple went to him for counselling told the woman it was entirely acceptable to go out w/ her friends.

I don’t want to second-guess a priest, but as a long as the priest was of the right view of things, then such advice would probably only have come out only on the presupposition that nothing ill would take place.

I wasn’t present, but I’m very confident that the fact wasn’t made clear that the friends in question are single, man-chasers, who just want to ‘sow wild oats’.

I would be careful with attributing names and saying what people “just want” to do.

The husband in question is very concerned as well b/c the wife has a co-worker who just went through a divorce that she’s friendly with. I know there’s nothing wrong w/ being friendly w/ a divorcee, but going to a man’s house alone in this type of situation strikes me as crossing the line into scandal and abuse of trust.

I would say it depends on how things are handled, i.e. what kind of behaviour is going on. Where I live, people wouldn’t assume the worst, but at the same time, at least the married people will generally behave responsibly, so if a married woman winds up in man’s house, it really is just business or friendship. If she goes at all. But the level of concern that you describe sounds rather paranoid to me, a bit as if married people were not adults but children in custody.

The wife listens more to books & her parents when it comes to questions about raising the children. The husband has very little if any final say in anything.

It’s not good when a marriage is run by the parents of one party.

When the wife is present both boys hang off of her, won’t go to anyone else, etc. When the husband is alone with them (at someone else’s house) the boys play, interact with everyone, and generally do boy/kid things.

Isn’t she spoiling the children? As in not letting them do as they please, but rather turning them into momma’s boys?

Sigh, I don’t want to second-guess on how well a priest dispensed pastoral advice, but basing on what you say and what I know as a lawyer specialising in trials (which means evidence handling), that doesn’t strike me as a good way of handling evidence. Both parties have the right to be heard and evidence needs to be examined on the merits.

From what facts you tell us, it seems to me like a case of a woman who doesn’t want to accept what it means to be married but rather wants to run the whole show, better with her parents than with her husband. Something I wouldn’t like to happen to me. On the other hand, I don’t have enough material to say anything concrete. I would generally also caution you against making too hasty conclusions about the friends because while being concerned about their behaviour is natural, names and reductions like “just want to do X or Y” show a tendency to be rather curt with the case, which you seem to suspect the priest was doing. Make sure you don’t judge the friends and the woman too hastily and then think of the case again - if it still looks bad, perhaps it’s time to go to another priest for advice, except at the moment I can’t think of a tactful way for you to intervene (unless you’re a relative or old friend of the man’s or know a priest at that parish or something like that).

 

[chevalier]

It just makes me uncomfortable and I completely understand why the husband in question is uncomfortable and puzzled by this interaction as well. If the husband had friends who were known skirt chasers, I would be just as uncomfortable with him going out for a night on the town w/ them. It just shows a lack of respect to the spouse IMO.

It would probably be a good perspective for the woman to consider.

 

[BiologyBrain]

I would be careful with attributing names and saying what people “just want” to do.

I guess the best way for me to say this is that I know one (in particular) of the single women involved. She’s a confirmed man chaser that hasn’t been on a very moral road for the entire length of time I’ve known her. She’s a cute gal, but she is all about the here & now, not the here-after. She doesn’t like rules of any sort and actively flaunts them (and pokes fun at those who do follow them).

I would say it depends on how things are handled, i.e. what kind of behaviour is going on. Where I live, people wouldn’t assume the worst, but at the same time, at least the married people will generally behave responsibly, so if a married woman winds up in man’s house, it really is just business or friendship. If she goes at all. But the level of concern that you describe sounds rather paranoid to me, a bit as if married people were not adults but children in custody.

I think there’s more to it than what I describe. However, I know that for myself, I try to make sure I let my husband know and then respect his feelings about me dealing w/ a single (whether divorced or never married) on a one-on-one basis - especially in their own home.

Isn’t she spoiling the children? As in not letting them do as they please, but rather turning them into momma’s boys?

That’s my take on it & its the husband’s opinion as well.

Sigh, I don’t want to second-guess on how well a priest dispensed pastoral advice, but basing on what you say and what I know as a lawyer specialising in trials (which means evidence handling), that doesn’t strike me as a good way of handling evidence. Both parties have the right to be heard and evidence needs to be examined on the merits.

From what facts you tell us, it seems to me like a case of a woman who doesn’t want to accept what it means to be married but rather wants to run the whole show, better with her parents than with her husband. Something I wouldn’t like to happen to me. On the other hand, I don’t have enough material to say anything concrete. I would generally also caution you against making too hasty conclusions about the friends because while being concerned about their behaviour is natural, names and reductions like “just want to do X or Y” show a tendency to be rather curt with the case, which you seem to suspect the priest was doing. Make sure you don’t judge the friends and the woman too hastily and then think of the case again - if it still looks bad, perhaps it’s time to go to another priest for advice, except at the moment I can’t think of a tactful way for you to intervene (unless you’re a relative or old friend of the man’s or know a priest at that parish or something like that).

I agree that making decisions and/or judgements hastily should be avoided at all costs. However, as I explained above, I personally know at least one of the single women in question - I, personally, would not be comfortable spending a night out on the town w/ her. I had the opportunity while I was still single, but I felt her manner was more predatory than necessary. I wasn’t comfortable with her flaunting herself in front of guys and trying to persuade me to do the same and abandon my morals.

The husband in question is my uncle (mom’s brother). The priest is the same one that married me & my husband as well as my parents. I’m quite friendly w/ my uncle’s wife (my aunt). Truthfully, it pains me to even think that they’re having trouble b/c they really are a great couple. However, my uncle is not typically one to over-react and/or be possessive. He has suggested that his wife & her friends go out on weekdays and/or to resturaunts instead of bars. He has no problems taking the kids & letting her have some girl time. He also trys diligently to make sure she knows she’s appreciated and loved for being not only the mother of his children, but also his lovely wife. They try to have ‘date-nights’ on a fairly regular basis since they are both busy w/ work & the kids most of the time. One friend (the one I’ve described above) seems to cause them a lot of trouble b/c when the wife is around her she changes to ‘fit in’ with this friend instead of being herself.

 

[Stella_Matutina]

There are many female fellowship opportunities through church activities available where I live. Women’s Bible Studies, Prayer Groups, and also “Evenings of Recollection” where women get together in adoration, rosary, confession, benediction, followed by a little refreshment gathering. These activities are perfect for married women and can be fun and nurturing of your faith. Good for a marriage too.

 

[chevalier]

Got to be delicate in dealing with your aunt, even if time has come for her to deal away with joining friends who go to bars.

I don’t understand why she insists on keeping that on her schedule, but there’s always a number of reasons, including friends being so dear to her, or perhaps some memories of when she was younger.

On the other hand, I’m worried about this girls night out thing combined with the woman & her parents rule da house pattern, meaning perhaps she’s not fully come to terms with being married yet?

As for the priest, maybe you could set an appointment with him one on one and discuss the situation, pointing out that in any such mediation both parties need to be heard and when mediation turns into arbitration, then all the more so. Maybe if you point out (in a respectful, friendly and logical way) that relying on knowledge of some circumstances of the husband’s upbringing and using it to explain things doesn’t hold water, he’s going to see it. He very well might.

 

[ac_claire]

For the record, I think it’s inappropriate. But it doesn’t matter because my husband would never let me go out to a bar for a “girl’s night out”…and he would live by the same rule himself.

If you’re married, it’s time to stop acting like you’re single.

 

[AHapka]

I think one point that has been completely missed by everyone here is that there are many varying types of bars:

In college, I went to bars where they cleaned the floor with a hose the next morning.
I also went to some bars where the dress was similar to business casual, and people there were enganged in chat with their party. And very few people were trying to “pick up” anyone.
I’ve been to bars where the objective was the louder the music, the better. And the only activity there was “picking up.”
I’ve been to bars where the owner makes his own beer and the atmosphere is classy and about people genuinely interested in beer and the various kinds (and it’s amazing how many there are). Trying to play the pick up game would be rude and out of place at such an establishment.

The key here is not the going out. My wife would have no problem with me going to a bar with a bunch of my friends (and living in Wisconsin, that’s a very normal activity for getting together).

She WOULD have a problem with me going ANYPLACE (not just a bar) with a bunch of friends who sole objective is to pick up women. It’s not the bar that’s the problem in this situation.

I also think that there is no problem with a married person going out with their friends on occasion. That’s part of what being a friend is, doing stuff with people.

 

[whatevergirl]

I think one point that has been completely missed by everyone here is that there are many varying types of bars:

In college, I went to bars where they cleaned the floor with a hose the next morning.
I also went to some bars where the dress was similar to business casual, and people there were enganged in chat with their party. And very few people were trying to “pick up” anyone.
I’ve been to bars where the objective was the louder the music, the better. And the only activity there was “picking up.”
I’ve been to bars where the owner makes his own beer and the atmosphere is classy and about people genuinely interested in beer and the various kinds (and it’s amazing how many there are). Trying to play the pick up game would be rude and out of place at such an establishment.

The key here is not the going out. My wife would have no problem with me going to a bar with a bunch of my friends (and living in Wisconsin, that’s a very normal activity for getting together).

She WOULD have a problem with me going ANYPLACE (not just a bar) with a bunch of friends who sole objective is to pick up women. It’s not the bar that’s the problem in this situation.

I also think that there is no problem with a married person going out with their friends on occasion. That’s part of what being a friend is, doing stuff with people.

Yes, agreed. I think that’s pretty much we’re most of us stand with it…it’s not the place, it’s rather the motivation of the single ladies, that will drive the night. Thus, not the best arena for a married woman. My dh and I have always had together social nights, and socializing with friends who are not mutual of each other. (ie: a friend from where I work, an old friend from college for him) So, nothing wrong with that at all, and one must have trust in these situations. But, I would say it’s more of the fact that these women choose to chase men, and drag their married friend along, that is not appealing to me in this case.

 

[mrpathetic]

Situation: Woman is married (Catholic) w/ 2 kids (5 and 3). She works full-time (her choice & husband’s). Husband (Catholic) works full-time too. Several of her friends are unmarried and prone to man-chasing when out on the town.

Should this woman (morally and w/ respect for her husband’s feelings) go out on girls’ nights (bar scene) with her unmarried/man-chasing friends?

If you were the husband, would you be comfortable with this situation?

What alternatives (if any) would be advisable as a compromise if the woman indicates she needs some ‘girl time’ away from her hubby & kids (not just one or the other, but both simultaneously)?

Here’s a better piece of advice - stay home and pray the Rosary. Pray for the sinners that are on the “girl’s night out”, or whatever it’s called. Christians should not stoop to the level of pagans. We should be examples of prudence, obedience, and sacrifice - and I don’t think you can do that on a “girl’s night out”.

If you absolutely need time away from the home, then find a ministry at your parish to work in. I am sure that the SVdP society, or some other ministry to the poor, is looking for help, given the economic conditions today. Or sign up to be a catechist at your parish; most parishes badly need this today, especially in youth ministry.

 

[ac_claire]

Here’s a better piece of advice - stay home and pray the Rosary. Pray for the sinners that are on the “girl’s night out”, or whatever it’s called. Christians should not stoop to the level of pagans. We should be examples of prudence, obedience, and sacrifice - and I don’t think you can do that on a “girl’s night out”.

Whoa! LOL I actually…agree with mr. pathetic!!

(Sorry mr.p, I’m just used to us being on opposite sides in these threads. )

This is very good advice. I’ll say it again: having a “girl’s night out” with a bunch of single gals, especially in a place like a bar, is something single people do. “When I was a child, I spoke as a child…But when I became grown, I put away childish things…” replace child with single and grown with married and you get the general idea.