Girls over 10 or 12 years are eligible for marriage

[jakasaki]

I hope that I’m posting this in the right section - if not, the admins of the site can move it to the appropriate category.

4 Jan 2009

RIYADH: Saudi Arabia’s senior-most cleric said girls as young as 10 years old can be married, local media reported on Wednesday.

The powerful Grand Mufti Abdul Aziz al-Sheikh said in a speech late on Monday that Islamic Sharia law allows the practice of pre-teen girls getting married, and that critics of the practice were doing the girls “an injustice,” reports said.

*Sharia law strikes again!

“We hear often in the media about the marriage of minors. We must know that Sharia law is not unjust for women,” the cleric is quoted as saying.

“If it is said that a woman below 15 cannot be married, that is wrong. If a girl exceeds 10 or 12 then she is eligible for marriage, and whoever thinks she is too young, then he or she is wrong and has done her an injustice.”

*Injustice? How? By taking away the child’s life?

In December a Saudi court at Unayzah, 220 kilometres (135 miles) north of Riyadh, rejected a plea to divorce an eight-year-old girl married off by her father to a man who is 58, saying the case should wait until the girl reaches puberty.

*Hmmm, sounds familiar - 8 year old girl maried to a 58 year old man. He’s old enough to be her grandfather!

News article:

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Girls_over_10-12_years_are_eligible_for_marriage/articleshow/3979207.cms

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

… 8 year old girl maried to a 58 year old man.

Care to let me know what’s the minimum age of girls for marriage according to Jewish holy book ? Ever started any thread expressing surprise/ shock about that ? How old was mother of God when she was married to her earthy husband ? How old was he ?

 

[jakasaki]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

Care to let me know what’s the minimum age of girls for marriage according to Jewish holy book ? Ever started any thread expressing surprise/ shock about that ? How old was mother of God when she was married to her earthy husband ? How old was he ?

Good day Amy -

This article was written today and is practiced today. We are not discussing 2000 years ago.

Mary’s age at time of the immaculate conception is never mentioned in the Bible.

Perhaps you can start a “thread” about girls ages in the Jewish holy book from 2000 years ago.

Take care and be well,
Regards and may God Bless Us, Everyone!
Pam

Edit: 12:45pm
Sorry - was meant for Muslim Woman… Not Sister Amy…
Pam

 

[Sister_Amy]

I am Amy, not Muslim Woman.

I’m not convinced that allowing a girl to get married at age 12 is taking her life away. Girls these days are getting pregnant at that age, I think that’s much more of a problem.

It’s important to understand that the marriage of teenage girls separately from the marriage of young girls to old men. The sheikh, I’m sure, is not suggesting that 58 year old men be allowed to marry 10-year olds. And I can tell you why. The second caliph of Islam made it very clear that women love what men love–that is, that they both appreciate similar qualities in their spouse. It is far from the norm, and generally not socially acceptable for older men to take very young women as their brides. And I’m pretty confident the sheikh wasn’t encouraging that either.

The places where you see such outrageous unions taking place often do so despite Shari’ah rather than because of it. Often the girl is not given a choice (though Shari’ah demands that the marriage not occur without HER approval!) and the marriage is a form of slavery or transaction to secure financial stability for the girl’s father. (In other words, he sells his daughter.) That’s what you’ve seen in places like Afghanistan, for instance.

At the same time, Muslim Woman made an excellent point, that historically there has not been a problem with girls of such an age getting married. The “problem” seen today is from Westerners who really are having trouble seeing the world objectively.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

Sounds like things are getting pretty puritanical over there. Muhammad married Aiyesha at what, six? Where’s the Muslim liberty these days?

 

[jakasaki]

I am Amy, not Muslim Woman.

Sorry Amy - Honest mistake…

Regards,
Pam

 

[Parabol]

Good day Amy -

This article was written today and is practiced today. We are not discussing 2000 years ago.

Mary’s age at time of the immaculate conception is never mentioned in the Bible.

Perhaps you can start a “thread” about girls ages in the Jewish holy book from 2000 years ago.

Take care and be well,
Regards and may God Bless Us, Everyone!
Pam

Edit: 12:45pm
Sorry - was meant for Muslim Woman… Not Sister Amy…
Pam

‘The immaculate conception’ was the conception of Mary through sexual intercourse by Mary’s mother not the divine conception of Jesus.

 

[jakasaki]

‘The immaculate conception’ was the conception of Mary through sexual intercourse by Mary’s mother not the divine conception of Jesus.

Parabol - sorry - I am not my self today.

First I address a reply to Sister Amy, but was quoting Muslim Woman - I’m all over the place.

What I meant to type was “the Virgin Birth” - Mary’s age was not mentioned in the Bible.

 

[Eucharisted]

I see nothing wrong with this law. Mary herself was married at a very early age - fourteen, I think.

Now if Islamic law said preteen boys/girls could have sex at such a young age, then I’d have a problem, because that’d be pedophilia. But I don’t think the law states having sex with preteen boys/girls is legal, even though sex is the consummation of marriage. Of course, I don’t know if Islam teaches that or not, so any corrections would be appreciated.

 

[petitfleur]

So how often is this actually practiced???

 

[Ruthie]

Sister Amy said,

Often the girl is not given a choice (though Shari’ah demands that the marriage not occur without HER approval!) and the marriage is a form of slavery or transaction to secure financial stability for the girl’s father. (In other words, he sells his daughter.) That’s what you’ve seen in places like Afghanistan, for instance.

The case mentioned by jakasaki, where a divorce was not granted to an 8 year old girl, married by her father to a 58 year old man, was in a Saudi court. Is Unayzah not in Saudi Arabia? If this is contrary to Shari’ah, why did not the judge grant the divorce, and reprimand the girl’s father?

Thanks,

Ruthie

 

[ibkc]

At the same time, Muslim Woman made an excellent point, that historically there has not been a problem with girls of such an age getting married. The “problem” seen today is from Westerners who really are having trouble seeing the world objectively.

You’re right; it’s only a problem in cultures which value women as something more than property. That is certainly an attribute of many contemporary Westerners, regardless of religion.

Honestly, the time in this world has passed where it is necessary to marry off little girls for their “own good” or for family honor, which is what this practice boils down to. Marriage is a lifelong, life-changing thing. A 10-year-old is a child, and a child of that age is not capable of making a free, informed choice to marry. Anyone who values the concept of women and girls to have a say in their own destinies will not be sitting around rationalizing barbaric practices like this.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

… to marry off little girls for their “own good”

wrote this earlier . By today’s law & standard , 15/ 16 year old girls are considered as toooo young for marriage . But thousands teenage girls are enjoying close relationships with unlimited partners. Later they either abandon their illegal babies or kill them in the abortion clinics.

After puberty , it should be allowed for parents to take decision with the consent of the daughter about marriage . Men made law must not say that before 18 or 20 , she can’t get married . It forces many to commit adultery that is a major sin. Also , no one should force any woman in to marriage. When a woman came to the Prophet & said that she was forced in to marriage , Prophet allowed her to dissolve it . Then she said , I don’t want to do that , I just wanted to show everyone that no parents should force daughter .

If we fear God & if we are conscious that on the Judgment Day we will be accountable for our deeds , nobody will do any injustice like forcing girls in to marriage .

 

[Eucharisted]

Then let’s pray for those who neither have fear of the Lord nor belief in Judgment Day.

 

[ibkc]

By today’s law & standard , 15/ 16 year old girls are considered as toooo young for marriage . But thousands teenage girls are enjoying close relationships with unlimited partners.

Even a 15 - 16 year old is more able to make a decision about that than a 10-year-old. At ten years, most girls have not even begun puberty. They are CHILDREN.

Later they either abandon their illegal babies or kill them in the abortion clinics.

The answer to this problem is not to deny them their freedom.

After puberty , it should be allowed for parents to take decision with the consent of the daughter about marriage . Men made law must not say that before 18 or 20 , she can’t get married . It forces many to commit adultery that is a major sin.

Little innocent girls should not be made to suffer because lazy and immoral men won’t make the effort to control their lust and desires.

Also , no one should force any woman in to marriage. When a woman came to the Prophet & said that she was forced in to marriage , Prophet allowed her to dissolve it . Then she said , I don’t want to do that , I just wanted to show everyone that no parents should force daughter .

If a woman should not be forced into marriage, then a little girl should most certainly not be forced into marriage either.

If we fear God & if we are conscious that on the Judgment Day we will be accountable for our deeds , nobody will do any injustice like forcing girls in to marriage .

That Saudi cleric needs to hear this message.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

Even a 15 - 16 year old is more able to make a decision .

That’s the problem with the men made laws. They allow girls to have unlimited partners that is forbidden by God Almighty . But same law won’t allow any parents to arrange marriage of their daughter who has reached at her puberty . Early marriage is lawful by all major holy books. Why always condemn Islam ?

Jewish holy book allows 3 years old girl to get married , Hindus holy book says it’s best to give her in to marriage before she is 7 .

Quran does not specific any minimum age. There is a verse that says to return property of the orphans when they reach at puberty : And test the orphans until they attain puberty; then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property
( chapter women , verse 6). It can applicable for marriage , too.

Prophet waited long 3 years for Aisha (p) to take her home. Clearly it indicates that he waited till she reaches puberty. Also , she never objected against marriage . She before 6 was engaged to another man who refused to accept Islam; so marraige did not take place.

No one should force anyone in to marriage or stop anyone from getting married .

 

[Walden]

In my opinion, It doesn’t matter whether you are actually forcing a 10 year old girl to marry or not, they are incapable of making that kind of decision.

The only way a grown man could marry someone that young is to simply not care about their needs or feelings at all. What I mean by that is an adult knows and understands that 10 year olds change their minds about trivial matters all the time.

There is no way that they can be expected to understand what they are getting themselves into.

(To be PC I should also mention that 10 year old boys would be equally incapable of such a decision)

 

[survive]

Jewish holy book allows 3 years old girl to get married…
No one should force anyone in to marriage or stop anyone from getting married .

I’ve studied in depth the ways of life of ancient Jewish people and other Mediterrannean/ANE peoples, and this is not true. The minimum age of marriage for a girl or boy was 12, 12.5, or 13 (it varied from century to century), and this was actually the age of consent to engagement; to break off an engagement was difficult, but simpler than ending an actual marriage, as there was no move, no children, no property to worry about. The minimum period of engagement was a year, but it was typically a year and a half or even longer. After that came a least a month but more often a year or so of brother-sister living in the groom’s parents’ home, no sleeping together (so no children), no adult duties (though kids worked too), and no isolation together. After that they were guaranteed by law a year-long honeymoon, sleeping together, living together, but without adult work; relations supported them. Then and only then were they in an adult marriage.
Why 12-13? Well, physically, it’s an age when the preadolescent growth spurt is half over, so the child then is almost able to handle an adult workload. Neurologically, it’s around the beginning of the capacity for abstract reasoning, planning the future and judging character, and the capacity for mature self-awareness just begins forming around then too. Pubescence goes on for two to four years, to 16 give-or-take, before a girl’s body is old enough to handle sex, pregnancy, birth and long-term exhaustion without modern medicine to get her through it. At the end of that time, a boy is also strong and fast enough to possibly live through combat, so he can be drafted, being about 20 by then, and is therefore officially a fully-grown adult.

 

[emarc]

the usa w/c is judeo-christian is not perfect, but ain’t we glad this country is looking out after our minors? those immoral dom who choose children to marry ought to go to jail and languish there.
God bless.

 

[MrDickerson]

Mary’s age at time of the immaculate conception is never mentioned in the Bible.

Mary’s age at the time of the immaculate conception was…nothing. The “Immaculate Conception” refers to the conception of Mary herself in the womb of St. Anne; immaculate because she alone was conceived without the stain of original sin.

You’re confusing it with the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ (common misconception, just felt the need to correct it when I saw it)
I think most of us assume Mary was probably between 12 to 15 when she was betrothed to St. Joseph. I’m certain that the ancient Jews didn’t marry off their girls before they had reached the age of puberty like the modern Muslims do today. By the way, MuslimWoman, your point is irrelevant because St. Joseph and the Blessed VIRGIN Mary never had a sexual relationship. Joseph is called “most chaste spouse of the Blessed Virgin Mary”…Joseph is a much better role model than Mohammad, who couldn’t keep his grubby fingers off of a NINE year old.