Giuliani to Romney: Man up

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unionleader.com/article/20110605/NEWS0605/706059979##static

"The former New York City mayor said the former Massachusetts governor, who announced his candidacy for President on Thursday, has done a poor job of answering criticisms of the health care plan he signed into law in 2006.

He said “Romneycare” was a model for “Obamacare,” and Romney “can’t talk his way out of this. A mandate is a mandate is a mandate is a mandate is mandate. Let’s get real.”"

I’ve said it before that Romney is fatally flawed as potential nominee for the Republican Party in 2012. His Mormonism and his 2005 Health Care Reform legislation in Massachusettes. It is nearly identical to the the Health Care Reform Act passed by Congress. He has tried to say that its totally different because his was passed at the state level rather than the Federal level. The point being that allowing the States to function as the laboratories of democracy is better than an overreaching Federal Reform. I think his argument is thin considering that the Obama Administration has handed out waivers like candy. So, there plenty of Federalism going. More important, this issue is a bit esoteric. I doubt it’s gonna catch fire with voters. The only way to overcome this problem is to do exactly what Guiliani said he should do. Otherwise, he will continue to be vulnerable on the issue. And, there are some serious problems when you start comparing RomneyCare with ObamaCare. It won’t sit well with Republican Primary voters and exacerbates his Mormon problem.
 
Unfortunately I can not take either one seriously. I am praying for a strong Republican candidate for 2012.
 
Rick Perry or someone like him–or Obama gets four more years. Romney is done–there is no real way for him to deny what he did in MA, or to wish it away.
 
irishpatrick said:
Rick Perry or someone like him–or Obama gets four more years. Romney is done–there is no real way for him to deny what he did in MA, or to wish it away.
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Yet he continues to poll near or at the top amongst named, presumed and wished for candidates. Do other Republican voterts know something we don’t or does it speak to the weakness of the field as you imply irishpatrick?

BTW, Politico put up an article featuring a poll that shows that likely voters see Romney as qualified for the job. Palin at bottom of heap. It wasn’t clear whether those polled were likely Republican voters or a cross section.

politico.com/news/stories/0611/56346.html
 
Big_Ro said:
The media.
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If the media is taking Romney seriously then I know he is NOT the guy I am looking for. I’ll keep looking at the candidates that the media is either ignoring or going to great lengths to slander. At this point, that would have to be either Ron Paul or Sarah Palin. I’d love Sarah as a hunting buddy and next door neighbor, not crazy about her winking and “You betcha” when talking to world leaders as President.
 
Well I don’t know who they are polling, maybe democrats who want him to run because they think he is easy to beat. I know I wouldn’t vote for either of them, but I don’t consider Romney a complete joke like I do Giuliani.
 
Rascalking said:
I like Rudy alot. Sure, he’s got faults. We all do.
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Yeah amen to that.

I think the problem with Giuliani is that he’s become carcitured as a “perrenial” candidate by the media. Maybe it’s deserved, maybe its not. I’m just saying.

He also maybe used 9/11 a bit much in the last go around. The media really made him sound foolish on that count. Again, whether its fair or not its up to everyone to decide for themselves.
 
Big_Ro said:
Yeah amen to that.

I think the problem with Giuliani is that he’s become carcitured as a “perrenial” candidate by the media. Maybe it’s deserved, maybe its not. I’m just saying.

He also maybe used 9/11 a bit much in the last go around. The media really made him sound foolish on that count. Again, whether its fair or not its up to everyone to decide for themselves.
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Very true. He handled 9/11 very well though, and I get the feeling he can handle anything.

Perrenial canidate? I’m not too sure about that. He isn’t there…yet! 😉
 
He was a complete embarrassment of a candidate last time. Personally I wish he would retire from politics. He makes the GOP look horrible.
 
Cider said:
He was a complete embarrassment of a candidate last time. Personally I wish he would retire from politics. He makes the GOP look horrible.
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I’m not picking a fight (in case iamrefreshed is watching. Seriously think he’s stalking me. Creepy!!;)) I really want to know your mind on this. Why was he an embararsment?
 
Big_Ro said:
Yet he continues to poll near or at the top amongst named, presumed and wished for candidates. Do other Republican voterts know something we don’t or does it speak to the weakness of the field as you imply irishpatrick?

BTW, Politico put up an article featuring a poll that shows that likely voters see Romney as qualified for the job. Palin at bottom of heap. It wasn’t clear whether those polled were likely Republican voters or a cross section.

politico.com/news/stories/0611/56346.html
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I suspect it is the weakness of the field and I personally do not think Palin has a chance, but then again, I really did not think this nation would elect Obama–so what do I know? 🙂
 
Cider said:
He was a complete embarrassment of a candidate last time. Personally I wish he would retire from politics. He makes the GOP look horrible.
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How does he make the GOP look horrible. He is very strong on life. He is fiscally strong. He is strong on defense, strong on traditonal marriage, etc.

I think the problem is many Republicans today are really liberals and cannot stand frank talk.
 
Romney is right. States are free to experiment with their own solutions, whereas the Constitution does not grant the federal government authorization to implement a national health care plan. Besides, Catholics can’t vote for Giuliani (in good conscience), as he is pro-abortion. If a Catholic would choose a pro-death pseudo Christian over a Pro-Life Mormon, something is wrong .
 
irishpatrick said:
I suspect it is the weakness of the field and I personally do not think Palin has a chance, but then again, I really did not think this nation would elect Obama–so what do I know? 🙂
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Well, I think the last election was a replay of 1976. While I do think that Carter employed a brilliant strategy in the 2 years before the actual election, he truly benefitted from the Watergate debacle and Ford’s pardoning of Nixon. Whether you agree or not, there was widespread dissatisfaction with the way that the Bushh years had gone and the economy had fallen off a cliff by election day. McCain ran a pretty shabby campaign, which didn’t help matters. All tactics and no strategy. Obama, like him or not, ran a very disciplined campaign and followed a strategy from start to finish. Even when the media was counting McCain out, I told my good Republican friends that he would garner the nomination, but that there wasn’t a chance that a Republican could win. I’m not so sure about this election. It’s more than 40 years since I couldn’t figure who the Republican nominee would be. A real mystery. BTW, I was nine 40 years ago and the only reason I knew who the nominee would be was because my family supported Nixon.
 
Big_Ro said:
I’m not picking a fight (in case iamrefreshed is watching. Seriously think he’s stalking me. Creepy!!;)) I really want to know your mind on this. Why was he an embararsment?
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That is the impression he left with me after the last campaign, but I can’t list specific examples of things he said now that it’s nearly four years later. I will say I think he is just too over the top with his mannerisms and attitude and I remember disagreeing with him on some political issues but I can’t remember what they are now. I think that Sept 11th is the only reason he even got as far as he did at the national level of politics.
 
Krakatoa said:
Romney is right. States are free to experiment with their own solutions, whereas the Constitution does not grant the federal government authorization to implement a national health care plan. Besides, Catholics can’t vote for Giuliani (in good conscience), as he is pro-abortion. If a Catholic would choose a pro-death pseudo Christian over a Pro-Life Mormon, something is wrong .
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Well in terms of it being unconsitutional, unless your a sitting SCOTUS judge, it’s an opinion. The courts haven’t ruled and the lower courts are mixed. I agree that there is a federalism angle, but its esoteric. I just don’t see “Vote Romney! Vote for Federalism!” being a winning slogan.
 
Big_Ro said:
Well, I think the last election was a replay of 1976. While I do think that Carter employed a brilliant strategy in the 2 years before the actual election, he truly benefitted from the Watergate debacle and Ford’s pardoning of Nixon. Whether you agree or not, there was widespread dissatisfaction with the way that the Bushh years had gone and the economy had fallen off a cliff by election day. McCain ran a pretty shabby campaign, which didn’t help matters. All tactics and no strategy. Obama, like him or not, ran a very disciplined campaign and followed a strategy from start to finish. Even when the media was counting McCain out, I told my good Republican friends that he would garner the nomination, but that there wasn’t a chance that a Republican could win. I’m not so sure about this election. It’s more than 40 years since I couldn’t figure who the Republican nominee would be. A real mystery. BTW, I was nine 40 years ago and the only reason I knew who the nominee would be was because my family supported Nixon.
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Actually, I am thinking 2012 is the cycle closest to the Carter one. Obama was supposed to come in clean-up the mess Bush made (just like Carter was supposed to clean-up the Mess Ford and Nixon made). That has not come even remotely close to happening…so just like Carter, Obama is ripe to lose–the GOP just needs a strong person like Reagan was.

[btw, I do not believe there was a mess that can be laid at Bush’s feet–I am just speaking of the general public perception three years ago]
 
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