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friardchips
Guest
Do you have an angle when studying, i.e:- could this be true?, could this be false?
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House_Harkonnen
Guest
He was declared a heretic by an Ecumenical Council, and popes for hundreds of years after him had yo agree that he was a heretic. Seems that the church knew he was a heretic. Perhaps he was, as Catholic Answers claims, simply guilty of failing to teach. But that wasn’t the conclusion of the church at the time.House,
Your better argument would be the case of Honorius I (625-38)
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friardchips
Guest
Maybe praying for understanding and higher reasoning. would have been a better idea. These are graces of enlightenment that come from prayer and it is a shame you let these be an obstacle on you path. Prayer with the Sacraments provide fruit.
Jesus even gave a parable about knocking until you get an answer - be stubborn with God! The meaning was not to give up but to persist. Otherwise, do you want your faith to be made up of things that suit your own mind and your own life and your own thinking, or do you want your faith to be a challenge where we can’t put God in a box and have to grow in love and understanding? Faith is real when it is an understanding of the heart, in the heart, not presumption that occurs in the mind and opposition based on our own dislikes.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
No one has taught that. Ever.
You set-up strawmen just to set them ablaze. Unfortunately, that is the only light by which you see.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Again, you misunderstand. If Honorius **privately **held a false doctrine, so what?
But the facts are that Honorius did not teach anything in this matter in a formal manner that suggests he was attempting to bind all Christians to that teaching. In fact, the opposite is true for he among his writings on the matter, we find:
(a) “We must not wrest what they say into Church dogmas”;
(b) “We must not define either one or two operations”;
(c) “We leave the matter to grammarians”;
(d) “We must not, defining, pronounce one or two operations.”
Somehow, despite these clear statements that Honorius had no intention of making a binding decision, some controversialists insist that Honorius was attempting to make a formal, binding pronouncement and, because the matter in questions proved to be heretical, that Honorius’ private opinions disprove papal infallibility.
Thus, infallibility is not disproven by Honorius.
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friardchips
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JackieO123
Guest
It’s either the true Church, or the schismatics. I’d choose the true Church.
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gachristian
Guest
Please understand that I am not trying to be argumentative.
When I read I Cor. in its context, I read it as yours works being burnt as opposed to the foundation Paul talks about with is faith in Jesus. I don’t see it talking about purgatory or.
In Matthew, in reading the entire chapter, I believe the parable is an explanation of Jesus’ response to Peter who asked how many times should I forgive my brother?
The passage in Luke, in context, is talking about being ready at all times and take heed of the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.
When I read I Cor. in its context, I read it as yours works being burnt as opposed to the foundation Paul talks about with is faith in Jesus. I don’t see it talking about purgatory or.
In Matthew, in reading the entire chapter, I believe the parable is an explanation of Jesus’ response to Peter who asked how many times should I forgive my brother?
The passage in Luke, in context, is talking about being ready at all times and take heed of the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.
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rcwitness
Guest
They dont just give the title “Forum Master” to anyone.
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rcwitness
Guest
“Obeyed without question” ?
Is this commanded, from the Church, of the Bishops? Has the Church rejected the council of the bishops? That seems very misunderstood.
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rcwitness
Guest
No problem.
Just showing some Scripture that shows our point of view.
I think this thread, from Randy, has invited all to express their heart felt reasons they are “kept” from the Church Communion.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Purgatory is a great topic and deserves its own thread. Please feel free to start one and give us one or two questions on that single topic.
A lot of us will be happy to show you where to find the ideas behind purgatory in Scripture.
Go Jackets!
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Randy_Carson
Guest
They dont just give the title “Forum Master” to anyone.
Just anyone with a lot of free time on their hands. But thanks.
:tiphat:
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gachristian
Guest
I appreciate the response. I cannot answer that question fully although I am leaning toward “no.”
My husband was also raised Catholic and recently started going to Mass again after 30+. He enjoys the reverence of the Mass but also enjoys the stress of a relationship with our Savior, Jesus that we have seen in some Protestant churches. I can understand and appreciate what he sees in the Mass. And I can agree that the Catholic church has been strong in many of the issues that we have seen in history (abortion, homosexuality, etc.)
At the same time, I have had people tell me that we will become a “house divided” which I disagree with. We are both Christian. I still go to a protestant church, and he is going to a Catholic church.
Being on both sides I have heard the condemnation in both Catholic and nonCatholic circles of each other. What I read from scripture is that salvation is found through faith in Jesus and only Jesus. Our works do not save us, but works demonstrates our faith.
And again, I am not trying to be argumentative. I found this forum in searching for ways to support my husband’s decision. Although issues such as Catholic doctrine of Mary and purgatory are among the main disagreements I have in Catholic doctrine.
My husband was also raised Catholic and recently started going to Mass again after 30+. He enjoys the reverence of the Mass but also enjoys the stress of a relationship with our Savior, Jesus that we have seen in some Protestant churches. I can understand and appreciate what he sees in the Mass. And I can agree that the Catholic church has been strong in many of the issues that we have seen in history (abortion, homosexuality, etc.)
At the same time, I have had people tell me that we will become a “house divided” which I disagree with. We are both Christian. I still go to a protestant church, and he is going to a Catholic church.
Being on both sides I have heard the condemnation in both Catholic and nonCatholic circles of each other. What I read from scripture is that salvation is found through faith in Jesus and only Jesus. Our works do not save us, but works demonstrates our faith.
And again, I am not trying to be argumentative. I found this forum in searching for ways to support my husband’s decision. Although issues such as Catholic doctrine of Mary and purgatory are among the main disagreements I have in Catholic doctrine.
If I showed these things - IN SCRIPTURE - to you, would you consider returning?
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rcwitness
Guest
Great attitude:thumbsup:
I think many “cradle Catholics” need to have a sense of owning the faith for themselves. This is understandable. There is so much to take in from the Deposit of Faith, and logically since the Church is 2000 yrs old.
I am a convert. I was never aware of the Catholic Church. When I leaned, it was in baby steps, questioning everything and rightly so. I was never a protestant, because I never protested something from the true faith of the Cat faith. I heard and accepted the Gospel as an Evangelical Free child. I grew in my faith and when encountered the Teachings of the Catholic Church, I eagerly sought the graces of Jesus delivered through this Mother Church.
Peace be with you, your genuine faith, and your relationship with your husband.
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SteveVH
Guest
Maybe this is where you should concentrate. I mean, if these doctrines are truly out of line with the Gospel, then you should not support him in his decision. On the other hand, if you come to understand the Catholic position and find that these doctrines are true then you might want to consider your own path.
God bless you in your efforts.
I will pray for you.
Steve
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Good news! Catholics don’t believe that we are saved by our works, either. :nope:
Go slow. Read some good books about Catholicism, and ignore what you hear from non-Catholics and especially ex-Catholics. Compare real Catholic doctrine with the scriptures. You won’t find any discrepancies.
If you think you find one, let us know here in the forum, and we’ll walk you through it. :yup:
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Tommy999
Guest
These are some of the same doctrinal obstacles I have, although I respect Catholicism and find many other areas admirable and appealing.
In my view, praying to Mary and the saints can detract from our relationship with God and I doubt I could ever do that because (in my view) it can lead to having multiple go-betweens between God and man instead of the one ordained intermediary, Jesus Christ. It has led to placing too much emphasis on Mary and the saints in some circles and not enough on Christ, who should be the primary focus of worship of all Christians.
To me, the Catholic belief, if I understand it correctly, is similar to believing that God is too busy or doesn’t care enough about you to listen to you directly so you have to invoke Mary and/or the saints in order to get His attention. I don’t believe we have an aloof Heavenly Father who requires intervention from others in heaven in order to contact Him and communicate with Him through prayer. Our direct link to God is Jesus Christ, not godly Christian brothers and sisters who have gone on to heaven before us. Unlike Christ, they aren’t divine.
I also struggle with the Catholic requirement to go to a priest to receive forgiveness of sins from God. I believe we can boldly approach the throne of grace without the need of a priest (Hebrews 4:16) , although I am not opposed to going to a priest for counseling and spiritual guidance and other roles they perform for the Church and the faithful.
I can’t think of any other major objections to Catholicism but I believe these are enough to keep me from becoming Catholic, although I remain respectful and a friend to Catholics.
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
This is what I was referring to. It adds to the salvation process by making it a requirement of the faith.We Lutherans agree though we don’t demand agreement amongst ourselves. The trouble isn’t the theological truth… but making salvation contingent on this professing this truth.
We could theologically prove some other very meaningful truths, but I don’t think it’s quite nesessary to put more stumbling blocks in front of ourselves - we make enough of our own already.
Keep professing this truth too all, as it points to the nature of our Lord.
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