Giving Birth Control

[kage_ar]

Yes it was a priest who told me that, I was surprised by it too. The Church is one thing, but mentally ill people who are overseen, because they are maybe incompetent, need to use Contraception, it`s common sense, & there is no shortage of people who care for these people to use them sexually & also other perverts who would prey on these weak people, These people cannot be watched 24/7, nor can anyone else. They need protection.

The mentally disabled are somebody’s son, daughter, brother, sister, niece, nephew, cousin or neighbor.

When my child was young, my husband and I protected him from sexual predators and did not put him in harm’s way. Any human being can be protected by loving family or friends.

What you parrot above is the very unchristian idea the people are no better than animals and that the mentally disabled are not to be valued and treasured.

Their family needs to protect them. If they are a true orphan then it is your job and my job as Christians to provide a safe place for them.

 

[Reuben_J]

NoWhereMan:

Yes it was a priest who told me that, I was surprised by it too. The Church is one thing, but mentally ill people who are overseen, because they are maybe incompetent, need to use Contraception, it`s common sense, & there is no shortage of people who care for these people to use them sexually & also other perverts who would prey on these weak people, These people cannot be watched 24/7, nor can anyone else. They need protection.

Sorry, but what kind of protection is that? Morally that would be like permitting them to be abused and when they are, they do not get pregnant.

By the same token, if they are mentally ill and unable to distinguish that people are taking advantage of them by having sex, what then make them be able to distinguish it is for their protection by taking the pills/contraception? How can we guarantee that they will faithfully take the pills being menyally disabled that they are?

There are some very good comments earlier on regarding this but let’s know this - the mentally ill are real people too who deserved to be loved and cared for. Giving them contraceptive so that they will not get pregnant is to abdicate our responsibility as a society to care and love them. It is putting them out on the street on their own for the predators to prey on them. This is unChristian and uncharitable and should not happen in a Christian society. They are the **least of our brethrens **and should not be treated that way and be abandoned.

This same rationale is also being used to give contraceptive to people in the third world countries - they are so poor that they should not have more children because they cannot afford them.

The priest, of all the people, should be the last person to give such advice.

 

[thistle]

Yes it was a priest who told me that, I was surprised by it too. The Church is one thing, but mentally ill people who are overseen, because they are maybe incompetent, need to use Contraception, it`s common sense, & there is no shortage of people who care for these people to use them sexually & also other perverts who would prey on these weak people, These people cannot be watched 24/7, nor can anyone else. They need protection.

There are no exceptions to the truth. The Church teaching is clear.
Using your argument the Church should then allow the use of condoms to try to stop the spread of AIDS (and ostensibly save millions of lives) but when in Africa the Pope made it clear there are no exceptions to the teaching on use of contraceptives.

 

[NoWhereMan]

Heres just one example, tho there are probably millions across this world, My neighbor & friend have a mentally challenged daughter, she has the mentality of a 12 yr old tho she is about 23 yrs old, she is very very flirtacious,, passerbys in cars, she makes eye contact with, some of them who would stop to chat with her realized she was mentally challenged, but others dont care one bit & would take advantage of her, her parents caught her with an older man, after that , they had no choice but to put her on Birth control, after talking with her social worker about the situation, what else should they do, they can`t keep her shackled, , she is in no position to bear a child, the answer is birth control, I am sure God understands, maybe birth control is not the sin we think it is

 

[kage_ar]

Heres just one example, tho there are probably millions across this world, My neighbor & friend have a mentally challenged daughter, she has the mentality of a 12 yr old tho she is about 23 yrs old, she is very very flirtacious,, passerbys in cars, she makes eye contact with, some of them who would stop to chat with her realized she was mentally challenged, but others dont care one bit & would take advantage of her, her parents caught her with an older man, after that , they had no choice but to put her on Birth control, after talking with her social worker about the situation, what else should they do, they can`t keep her shackled, , she is in no position to bear a child, the answer is birth control, I am sure God understands, maybe birth control is not the sin we think it is

They do not have to keep her shackled, they have to keep her protected. She should not be out alone, just like you do not let a young child out alone. If she is chaperoned when in public, then she will not meet older men.

Again, she needs to be chaperoned, just like any good parent does with a young child. Her family should arrange for others to care for her with protection when they pass away.

 

[tweetymom]

Heres just one example, tho there are probably millions across this world, My neighbor & friend have a mentally challenged daughter, she has the mentality of a 12 yr old tho she is about 23 yrs old, she is very very flirtacious,, passerbys in cars, she makes eye contact with, some of them who would stop to chat with her realized she was mentally challenged, but others dont care one bit & would take advantage of her, her parents caught her with an older man, after that , they had no choice but to put her on Birth control, after talking with her social worker about the situation, what else should they do, they can`t keep her shackled, , she is in no position to bear a child, the answer is birth control, I am sure God understands, maybe birth control is not the sin we think it is

Amen to that. I had a nephew who was mentally challenged and his parents had him get a vascentomy and that settled it once and for all.

 

[tweetymom]

They do not have to keep her shackled, they have to keep her protected. She should not be out alone, just like you do not let a young child out alone. If she is chaperoned when in public, then she will not meet older men.

Again, she needs to be chaperoned, just like any good parent does with a young child. Her family should arrange for others to care for her with protection when they pass away.

Easier said than done!

 

[choose_to_love]

Hey everybody, maybe the issue of contraception for the mentally challenged and vulnerable is not so clear. I agree contraception is gravely disordered, and not morally acceptable. However, if the women we are talking about are so challenged that they could not effectively or legally give consent to intercourse, would not any intercourse that takes place by definition be rape? Could this not be analagous to administration of Plan B type drugs in rape where no ovulation has occurred? Once intercourse is not a voluntary act, I think it is possible the analysis changes.

I would think the problem would be 1) one could not tell if in fact the BCP failed to prevent ovulation, and hence the abortifacient properties come into play; 2) as pointed out above, it does not really address the issue of preventing the rape in the first place, and may actually encourage a potential rapist who thinks there will be no chance of pregnancy. Out of proportion?

Anyway, I am only posting because I know my immediate reaction was the same as many of you, but maybe even if the ultimate decision is the same, it is not as absolutely clear cut as it seemed at first blush.

 

[choose_to_love]

Whitacre, I think it is fair to say that all BCPs admit in their literature and package inserts that one method of their action is by thinning the endometrial lining, making implantation less likely. I think the PDR has a website where you can check it out. We also know that breakthrough ovulation occurs (or there would be no failure rates for BCPs), and there is a fair amount of literature on that. It is logical to then assume that it is possible that when the first two mechanisms (ovulation suppression and changing cervical mucus) fail, the thinning of the lining could prevent an implantation. It is also fair to say that this has never been demonstrated, and I do not think that it could be demonstrated ethically (implant a zygote in the fallopian tube of woman on BCP and see if it implants? yikes) or practically - - again it would require intense and detailed ultarasonographic or similar (or even more invasive) observation, and at the end of the day, could one say conclusively that failure to implant was because of the thin lining or a problem with the baby? Or indeed caused by the observational interventions?

All that being said, I also do not think it is fair to say “BCPs do not act as abortifacients”, given their admitted method of actions, and we should certainly err on the side of caution, given that we are talking about a life.

 

[kage_ar]

Easier said than done!

Most parents manage to keep their kids chaperoned and protected from predators - no one said being a parent was easy.

 

[NoWhereMan]

There are no exceptions to the truth. The Church teaching is clear.
Using your argument the Church should then allow the use of condoms to try to stop the spread of AIDS (and ostensibly save millions of lives) but when in Africa the Pope made it clear there are no exceptions to the teaching on use of contraceptives.

Well, the pope may be wrong, that makes no sense not to use protection to save these ignorant peoples lives

 

[kage_ar]

Well, the pope may be wrong, that makes no sense not to use protection to save these ignorant peoples lives

While in the process, destroying these “ignorant peoples” spirit and dignity?

 

[jilly4ski]

I was a little shocked by some of these replies. So instead of watching this young women the parents just put her on birth control so when people take advantage of her she doesn’t get pregnant!!! Being on birth control isn’t going to prevent people from abusing or taking advantage of people with mental disabilities. It will however, mask some of the symptoms of sexual abuse like pregnancy and a baby. Just b/c you put someone on birth control, you will still have to protect them to make sure they aren’t being abused. (Therefore why put them on birth control?)

Just my :twocents:

 

[NoWhereMan]

They do not have to keep her shackled, they have to keep her protected. She should not be out alone, just like you do not let a young child out alone. If she is chaperoned when in public, then she will not meet older men.

Again, she needs to be chaperoned, just like any good parent does with a young child. Her family should arrange for others to care for her with protection when they pass away.

People cannot chaperone their charges 24/7, it`s impossible, look at all the young normal girls who are getting pregnant , in spite of their parents being involved & trying to teach them the right thing. That is also why many of their parents put them too on birth control

 

[NoWhereMan]

I was a little shocked by some of these replies. So instead of watching this young women the parents just put her on birth control so when people take advantage of her she doesn’t get pregnant!!! Being on birth control isn’t going to prevent people from abusing or taking advantage of people with mental disabilities. It will however, mask some of the symptoms of sexual abuse like pregnancy and a baby. Just b/c you put someone on birth control, you will still have to protect them to make sure they aren’t being abused. (Therefore why put them on birth control?)

Just my :twocents:

Of course we try to protect them, but in todays world, they have to have the extra protection. We never know what dirty old man or young one will get ahold of our children

 

[NoWhereMan]

Easier said than done!

Exactly, almost impossible!

 

[Becks]

Of course we try to protect them, but in todays world, they have to have the extra protection. We never know what dirty old man or young one will get ahold of our children

By your logic we should put every girl who has gone through puberty on birth control, after all, they could be raped. While we’re at it, let’s force all boys who have gone through puberty to get a vasectomy, it can be reversed later on when we decide that it’s not our job to limit their fertility anymore.

 

[NoWhereMan]

By your logic we should put every girl who has gone through puberty on birth control, after all, they could be raped. While we’re at it, let’s force all boys who have gone through puberty to get a vasectomy, it can be reversed later on when we decide that it’s not our job to limit their fertility anymore.

Your twisting what I am saying

 

[Becks]

Your twisting what I am saying

How so? You seemed to be stating that a 20-something female with the mental capacity of an eleven year old should be given contraception to protect against pregnancy because 1. it is impossible to supervise her 24/7 and 2. she could be raped.

I don’t see how I am twisting anything to infer that the same (contraception) should be done to an eleven year old girl (same mental capacity) when the same conditions (1. it is impossible to supervise her 24/7 and 2. she could be raped) apply.

 

[Reuben_J]

Easier said than done!

I can sympathize with your nephew and all those in the same category. I can empathize with their guardians and those who are supposed to care for them. I can understand the anguish and the trauma to have a member of the family with this disease.

But who ever says it is easy? Whoever says that to be a Christian is easy? And yet we are called to be one. I would not list all the teachings on this or the Biblical references because I thought these are pretty much understood.

Ultimately there is no compromise on sin and on our commissioning. The cross makes us different. We are talking about Christian moral not the secular. It looks like Christians do not have what it takes to actually walk the path of the Lord if we find the easy way out, if we spurn sacrifices that are very often necessary and come with living the faith.

I mean it is perfectly alright, perfect solution if we ask the secular to address this problem, but goodness, we are Christians.

Mental illness is like any other illness. Society does put a stigma on it but its treatment is clear. One of this is support which obviously should come from the family. Mental patients are curable and especially so when their family give them the support and walk with them. Non-Christians do this and I personally have seen such patients who have their condition under controlled. What more then for us Christians?