Giving Birth Control

[thistle]

People cannot chaperone their charges 24/7, it`s impossible, look at all the young normal girls who are getting pregnant , in spite of their parents being involved & trying to teach them the right thing. That is also why many of their parents put them too on birth control

I sincerely hope and pray you do not support the use of contraceptives to avoid pregnancy or disease because that would sadly mean you are rejecting a Church teaching which is heresy and would mean you are in a state of mortal sin.

 

[beafedor]

There are no exceptions to the truth. The Church teaching is clear.
Using your argument the Church should then allow the use of condoms to try to stop the spread of AIDS (and ostensibly save millions of lives) but when in Africa the Pope made it clear there are no exceptions to the teaching on use of contraceptives.

1/ about condoms
Condoms help to spread AIDS, not to save lives. harvardaidsprp.org/
“There is,” Green added, “a consistent association shown by our best studies, including the U.S.-funded ‘Demographic Health Surveys,’ between greater availability and use of condoms and higher (not lower) HIV-infection rates.”
Besides, Uganda has lowered its numbers dramatically thanks to abstinence only/save it for marriage education, not condoms.

2/about this thread
I beg you my brothers and sisters in Christ, don’t fall for the lies of our culture. Be faithful to what our beautiful Church teaches on contraception. Church teachings are not a bunch or rules that deprive us of our freedom. On the contrary, their goal is to protect each and everyone of us, especially the defenseless.

Condoms don’t save lives, contraception is morally wrong*, dangerous for a women’s health, a blessing for the sex offender, causes abortions and leads women to have abortions when it fails.

Julie Burchill, a feminist said: “The freedom that women were supposed to have found in the Sixties largely boiled down to easy contraception and abortion; things to make life easier for men, in fact.” (Damaged Gods, 1986)

*except some pills for medical purposes and with abstinence (this has been discussed in another thread)

 

[Holly3278]

A lot of people with mental problems are very sexual. they need Birth Control, being that usually they don`t care who they sleep with. My wife worked in Group homes where the clients there were very sexually active, homosexuality too. They need to be protected, they are in no condition to care for a baby

Yep. They need to be protected. It is my opinion that they should not be allowed to be alone in their rooms with their boyfriends for reasons of protecting them from premarital sex. Why? Not only because premarital sex is immoral and is gravely sinful but also because those who have mental illness are susceptible to being used by men. They are also susceptible to mental harm because of this.

These people need to be cared for and protected, not given contraceptives.

I totally agree. As I said above, premarital sexual relations should be discouraged when it comes to these people and indeed all people.

Not trying to be rude here Whitacre_Girl, but where do you get your information? Most birth control pills ARE abortificiant. Several physicians that have been on CAL have said this, and it even says so in the pill information pamphlet. It specifically says that if you think you are pregnant that you need to stop taking the pills or you may cause a spontaneous abortion. It did in the ones I took for therapeutic purposes, which BTW didn’t solve my problem anyway.

Yep. Most birth control pills are definitely abortifacient. In fact, most hormonal birth control methods are abortifacient. But the fact that they are abortifacient is not the only reason why Catholics are opposed to them. Catholics are also opposed to artificial birth control methods because they close the sexual relationship off to life.

I got my information from several trustworthy physicians when I was seeking treatment for my medical conditions. Not to be rude, but I am more willing to trust words from the mouth of my primary care physician and a second and third opinion from doctors I know and trust than people in the internet…

Of course your physicians will tell you that they aren’t abortifacient. Why? Because physicians are taught to believe that pregnancy does not start until after the fertilized egg is implanted in the uterus. But we, as Catholics, know that pregnancy begins at fertilization.

Most birth control pills aren’t abortificant. They aren’t even inteded to be that way.

I don’t think you are doing anything that wrong, to be honest. These women came to you on that medication. They have already made the choice. It’s not the same as if you were telling them to take it, or prescribing it for selfish reasons. You are just dispensing their medication.

Something else to think about too, is that the Pope okayed use of hormonal treatments (birth control) if they are to be used in a theraputic manner. You don’t know which of these women are on it for legitimate medical relief.

I don’t know that the Pope has ok’d it but I do believe that it has been determined that the use of artificial birth control in celibate relationships for the use of therapeutic reasons only is allowed.

 

[Holly3278]

I sincerely hope and pray you do not support the use of contraceptives to avoid pregnancy or disease because that would sadly mean you are rejecting a Church teaching which is heresy and would mean you are in a state of mortal sin.

I agree Thistle. Far too many Catholics in this world support the use of artificial birth control. I will pray for all such Catholics.

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen.

St. Michael the Archangel, defender in battle, be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray and do thou oh prince of the Heavenly Host by the power of God, cast into Hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

Pax Tecum,
Holly

 

[kage_ar]

People cannot chaperone their charges 24/7, it`s impossible, look at all the young normal girls who are getting pregnant , in spite of their parents being involved & trying to teach them the right thing. That is also why many of their parents put them too on birth control

The parents commit a grave sin by putting any child on birth control.

In the normal course of events, a parent teaches a child morals and values, self respect and then slowly gives them responsibility. A good parent disciplines when the child violates rules, takes away some freedom. This goes on until a moral adult is formed. During that time of growth and development, the child may violate the parent’s teachings and have relations outside of marriage and get pregnant. That is the failure of the normal, developing child and should be dealt with by the parent with love and with faith.

We are not talking here about the normal child.

We are talking about children who will never be mature enough to walk the street alone, to go to the mall without a chaperone. Those with this type of mental disability need constant supervision, same as your 3 year old does.

To stick this person in a wearhouse with those of the other sex or even in the front yard unchaperoned is cruel and abusive. Shoving contraceptives down them compounds the abuse. Tragic.

 

[kage_ar]

Of course we try to protect them, but in todays world, they have to have the extra protection. We never know what dirty old man or young one will get ahold of our children

That is why we do not turn our children out among the predators to “fend for themselves”. Are you a parent?

 

[NoWhereMan]

The mentally disabled are somebody’s son, daughter, brother, sister, niece, nephew, cousin or neighbor.

When my child was young, my husband and I protected him from sexual predators and did not put him in harm’s way. Any human being can be protected by loving family or friends.

What you parrot above is the very unchristian idea the people are no better than animals and that the mentally disabled are not to be valued and treasured.

Their family needs to protect them. If they are a true orphan then it is your job and my job as Christians to provide a safe place for them.

There are some people that are no better than animals, they are the people that we have to protect the mentally challenged against, or mentally ill. These people need protection, & I bet most priests would agree. Do You think all the priests believe what the church teaches, there are many in the church who would like to see change on certain issues,including other consecrated religious. Now we are talking about mentally challenged & mentally ill

 

[NoWhereMan]

That is why we do not turn our children out among the predators to “fend for themselves”. Are you a parent?

I am a parent, predators are our relatives & people we think are our friends, read the news, they are mostly people we are supposed to trust, coaches, boy scout leaders school teachers, priests etc, so we are turning our kids out everyday to a world of predators

 

[tweetymom]

I am a parent, predators are our relatives & people we think are our friends, read the news, they are mostly people we are supposed to trust, coaches, boy scout leaders school teachers, priests etc, so we are turning our kids out everyday to a world of predators

That is so true. And some mentally handicapped are never healed and cannot be kept in a jail. Hence they need protection, in every way possible. I was molested when I was 5 years old by my care giver, my stepdad!

 

[NoWhereMan]

By your logic we should put every girl who has gone through puberty on birth control, after all, they could be raped. While we’re at it, let’s force all boys who have gone through puberty to get a vasectomy, it can be reversed later on when we decide that it’s not our job to limit their fertility anymore.

We are talking here about people who have mental problems & are mentally challenged, who are promiscuous, because they dont know any better & many times are taken advantage of. I am against young people having sex, always have been, I do not see how most young people think it is their right to have sex living under their parents roof, & some parents condone it. Not to mention, most babies that are conceived are conceived in the parents home, while they are away working etc, it only takes a nano second to have sex, You can set rules etc, but , certain times to be home etc, but they can always squeeze sex in somewhere . I am not for giving condoms to them or vasectomies to all boys.

 

[tweetymom]

We are talking here about people who have mental problems & are mentally challenged, who are promiscuous, because they dont know any better & many times are taken advantage of. I am against young people having sex, always have been, I do not see how most young people think it is their right to have sex living under their parents roof, & some parents condone it. Not to mention, most babies that are conceived are conceived in the parents home, while they are away working etc, it only takes a nano second to have sex, You can set rules etc, but , certain times to be home etc, but they can always squeeze sex in somewhere . I am not for giving condoms to them or vasectomies to all boys.

Amen to that!

 

[kage_ar]

I am a parent, predators are our relatives & people we think are our friends, read the news, they are mostly people we are supposed to trust, coaches, boy scout leaders school teachers, priests etc, so we are turning our kids out everyday to a world of predators

My relatives and friends are not predators. We took great care in being vigilant parents and also teaching our child how to recognize inappropriate behaviour.

My son was never alone with a coach or teacher until he was into his teen years and knew how to recognize any inappropriate action. I trust my priests.

 

[Brendan]

I got my information from several trustworthy physicians when I was seeking treatment for my medical conditions. Not to be rude, but I am more willing to trust words from the mouth of my primary care physician and a second and third opinion from doctors I know and trust than people in the internet…

The problem there is that doctors define ‘abortifacient’ differently that the Church does. The AMA guidelines define a pregnancy as beginning at implantation.

The hormonal contraceptives are designed first to impede ovulation. One of their other effects is to alter the uterine lining so that implantation is impeded. This, to the AMA is not an abortion, but still contraception. But that IS abortion to the Church. Since fertization has already occured, the preventing of implantation is aborting the new child.

Here is Planned Parenthood on the subject.

The hormones also thin the lining of the uterus. In theory, this could prevent pregnancy by keeping a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus.

plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/birth-control-pill-4228.htm

Note how they define the failure to implant as preventing pregnancy, not as an abortion

And here is another site, this one by the drug manufacturers themselves.

Inhibiting implantation of a fertilized egg

In this case, EBC may prevent a fertilized egg from successfully implanting in the lining of the uterus. Menstruation is the normal process of shedding the lining of the uterus. When a woman becomes pregnant she does not menstruate, and so the lining of the uterus remains to support the developing embryo. EBC pills, the copper-T IUD, regular birth control pills, and many other drugs such as certain prescription allergy medications may all prevent pregnancy by causing the lining of the uterus to be shed even if a fertilized egg is present. Together, these medicines are prescribed to millions of women each year.

emergencybirthcontrol.org/content_howEBCworks.htm

Again, if you read further on this site, it mentions that 'Emergency Birth Control" does not work after a woman has already become pregnant. They are again using the AMA’s definiton of pregnancy, implantation, not the biological definition of fertilization.

And even on their front page, they claim that this effect is not an abortion.

So your doctor told you the truth, as the AMA defined it. But birth control pills still can kill a child.

 

[beafedor]

I’d like to answer NoWhereMan and several other posters in favor of sterilizing mentally ill people.

If you are against sex out of marriage, then why would you want these girls to use contraceptive pills for?

And if a mentally ill girl does use the pill and the pill fails and she is pregnant, what’s the next step? abortion?

Not to mention that some sex offender use abortion to cover up their crimes, since it is proven that Planned Parenthood doesn’t report them to the police. Don’t you see a dangerous path here?

Our society has given up on the widow and the orphan. Are we Catholic going to give up on them too? Don’t we have higher moral standards than that?

 

[tweetymom]

I’d like to answer NoWhereMan and several other posters in favor of sterilizing mentally ill people.

If you are against sex out of marriage, then why would you want these girls to use contraceptive pills for?

And if a mentally ill girl does use the pill and the pill fails and she is pregnant, what’s the next step? abortion?

Not to mention that some sex offender use abortion to cover up their crimes, since it is proven that Planned Parenthood doesn’t report them to the police. Don’t you see a dangerous path here?

Our society has given up on the widow and the orphan. Are we Catholic going to give up on them too? Don’t we have higher moral standards than that?

No one is giving up on anyone just stating facts. There are so many things that happen to all sorts of people but most mentally (down sydrome) can never be healed unlkess God Chooses to. So birth control; for them is a must in my eyes, haveing family members who are and have been fixed.

 

[kage_ar]

No one is giving up on anyone just stating facts. There are so many things that happen to all sorts of people but most mentally (down sydrome) can never be healed unlkess God Chooses to. So birth control; for them is a must in my eyes, haveing family members who are and have been fixed.

You do realize that this belief is in direct opposition to the teachings of Holy Mother Church.

 

[beafedor]

You do realize that this belief is in direct opposition to the teachings of Holy Mother Church.

Please read this: “Without a doubt” by Bishop Thomas J. Tobin
11/12/09 (just replace abortion with contraception)

Dear Congressman Kennedy:

“The fact that I disagree with the hierarchy on some issues does not make me any less of a Catholic.” (Congressman Patrick Kennedy)

Since our recent correspondence has been rather public, I hope you don’t mind if I share a few reflections about your practice of the faith in this public forum. I usually wouldn’t do that – that is speak about someone’s faith in a public setting – but in our well-documented exchange of letters about health care and abortion, it has emerged as an issue. I also share these words publicly with the thought that they might be instructive to other Catholics, including those in prominent positions of leadership.
For the moment I’d like to set aside the discussion of health care reform, as important and relevant as it is, and focus on one statement contained in your letter of October 29, 2009, in which you write, “The fact that I disagree with the hierarchy on some issues does not make me any less of a Catholic.” That sentence certainly caught my attention and deserves a public response, lest it go unchallenged and lead others to believe it’s true. And it raises an important question: What does it mean to be a Catholic?

“The fact that I disagree with the hierarchy on some issues does not make me any less of a Catholic.” Well, in fact, Congressman, in a way it does. Although I wouldn’t choose those particular words, when someone rejects the teachings of the Church, especially on a grave matter, a life-and-death issue like abortion, it certainly does diminish their ecclesial communion, their unity with the Church. This principle is based on the Sacred Scripture and Tradition of the Church and is made more explicit in recent documents.

For example, the “Code of Canon Law” says, “Lay persons are bound by an obligation and possess the right to acquire a knowledge of Christian doctrine adapted to their capacity and condition so that they can live in accord with that doctrine.” (Canon 229, #1)

The “Catechism of the Catholic Church” says this: “Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles, ‘He who hears you, hears me,’ the faithful receive with docility the teaching and directives that their pastors give them in different forms.” (#87)

Or consider this statement of the Church: “It would be a mistake to confuse the proper autonomy exercised by Catholics in political life with the claim of a principle that prescinds from the moral and social teaching of the Church.” (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 2002)

There’s lots of canonical and theological verbiage there, Congressman, but what it means is that if you don’t accept the teachings of the Church your communion with the Church is flawed, or in your own words, makes you “less of a Catholic.”

But let’s get down to a more practical question; let’s approach it this way: What does it mean, really, to be a Catholic? After all, being a Catholic has to mean something, right?

Well, in simple terms – and here I refer only to those more visible, structural elements of Church membership – being a Catholic means that you’re part of a faith community that possesses a clearly defined authority and doctrine, obligations and expectations. It means that you believe and accept the teachings of the Church, especially on essential matters of faith and morals; that you belong to a local Catholic community, a parish; that you attend Mass on Sundays and receive the sacraments regularly; that you support the Church, personally, publicly, spiritually and financially.

Congressman, I’m not sure whether or not you fulfill the basic requirements of being a Catholic, so let me ask: Do you accept the teachings of the Church on essential matters of faith and morals, including our stance on abortion? Do you belong to a local Catholic community, a parish? Do you attend Mass on Sundays and receive the sacraments regularly? Do you support the Church, personally, publicly, spiritually and financially?

In your letter you say that you “embrace your faith.” Terrific. But if you don’t fulfill the basic requirements of membership, what is it exactly that makes you a Catholic? Your baptism as an infant? Your family ties? Your cultural heritage?

Your letter also says that your faith “acknowledges the existence of an imperfect humanity.” Absolutely true. But in confronting your rejection of the Church’s teaching, we’re not dealing just with “an imperfect humanity” – as we do when we wrestle with sins such as anger, pride, greed, impurity or dishonesty. We all struggle with those things, and often fail.

Your rejection of the Church’s teaching on abortion falls into a different category – it’s a deliberate and obstinate act of the will; a conscious decision that you’ve re-affirmed on many occasions. Sorry, you can’t chalk it up to an “imperfect humanity.” Your position is unacceptable to the Church and scandalous to many of our members. It absolutely diminishes your communion with the Church.

Congressman Kennedy, I write these words not to embarrass you or to judge the state of your conscience or soul. That’s ultimately between you and God. But your description of your relationship with the Church is now a matter of public record, and it needs to be challenged. I invite you, as your bishop and brother in Christ, to enter into a sincere process of discernment, conversion and repentance. It’s not too late for you to repair your relationship with the Church, redeem your public image, and emerge as an authentic “profile in courage,” especially by defending the sanctity of human life for all people, including unborn children. And if I can ever be of assistance as you travel the road of faith, I would be honored and happy to do so.

 

[George_Marchand]

I am grateful and humbled by the generous and thoughtful responses from all of you. If fertilization has taken place and the contraceptive prevents the implantation of the egg than that is clearly “murder” . Abortion is evil because it denies a life which belongs to God alone. It offends the nature of God Himself which surpasses all other considerations.
However if contraception prevents fertilization it is a lesser evil since life has not been created. This is where I wonder if it is possible to participate in giving birth control with mental reservation just as a store clerk is obliged to ring up the purchase of a customer's condoms My dilemma is it is next to impossible to function in this world without having to deal with the weeds growing amongst the wheat. Is the store clerk obliged not to work in any supermarket which sell condoms or PLAYBOYor even the NATIONAL ENQUIRER which can be cruel in mocking and relishing the weakness of others? How many of us shop at Walmart and give them profit? They sell the morning after pill. If we don't shop there, then where? Most of pharmacies we get our life saving prescriptions also sell and profit from medication that may be evil. Do we not go to a movie theater when one screen is showing The Passion of Christ and the other screen might be showing have a slasher film like SAW 16 ? I sometimes long to stay in bed and just pull the covers over my head!

 

[beafedor]

I am grateful and humbled by the generous and thoughtful responses from all of you. If fertilization has taken place and the contraceptive prevents the implantation of the egg than that is clearly “murder” . Abortion is evil because it denies a life which belongs to God alone. It offends the nature of God Himself which surpasses all other considerations.

 However if contraception prevents fertilization it is a lesser evil since life has not been created.  This is where I wonder if it is possible to participate in giving birth control with mental reservation just as a store clerk is obliged to ring up the purchase of a customer's condoms  My dilemma is it is next to impossible to function in this world without having to deal with the weeds growing amongst the wheat.  Is the store clerk obliged not to work in any supermarket which  sell condoms or PLAYBOYor even the NATIONAL ENQUIRER which can be cruel in mocking and relishing the weakness of others?  How many of us shop at Walmart and give them profit?  They sell the morning after pill.  If we don't shop there, then where?  Most of pharmacies we get our life saving prescriptions also  sell and profit from medication that may be evil.  Do we not go to a  movie theater when one screen is showing The Passion of Christ and the other screen might be showing have a slasher film like SAW 16 ?  I sometimes long to stay in bed and just pull the covers over my head!

Contraception is evil regardless of how it works. I’ve tried to show earlier that supporting contraception means supporting sex out of marriage, the violation of another church teaching. It’s a slippery road that leads to sex abuse and abortion which means murder to be clear.

We shouldn’t question that contraception is evil. Once we start to rationalize these things, and make exceptions, that’s how we get pro-abortion Catholics who contribute to elect a pro-abortion president. Not to mention Planned Parenthood calling on them to oppose their own Bishops on the (abortion funding) health care reform.

I never shop at Wal-mart and Sam’s club and never do business with a store/company/organization has ties with Planned Parenthood or treat their employees badly. I practice what I preach. There are always other options, and it demands to keep yourself informed and to make sacrifices. But at the end of the day, your conscience is not bothering you about the choices you are making.

I think somebody addressed the work situations you are talking about at the beginning of the thread. Good luck in your work and God Bless You, I will keep you in my prayers.

 

[humble_maid]

Contraception is evil regardless of how it works. I’ve tried to show earlier that supporting contraception means supporting sex out of marriage, the violation of another church teaching. It’s a slippery road that leads to sex abuse and abortion which means murder to be clear.

With all due respect, I beg to differ. I have been using a contraceptive for the last four years. The reason it was given to me were for medical reasons. In the last 24 years I suffered with each menstration cycle; so much so that it debilated me physically. As a consequence I became seriously anemic to the point where my life was threatened. I was never hospitalized, though I became seriously ill. Now, with this intervention I am well. I never knew what it was like to have a normal menstrual cycle. I gained strength and health. Once my health returned I ceased the contraceptive use because of guilt; I thought about what the church teaches and wondered if I was doing something wrong. Just recently I had returned to the use of the contraceptive because the same problem began to manifest itself.

I believe that the use of contraceptives is both morally challenging and may have many side effects. I don’t agree with its use for preventing pregnancies, there are other more natural ways. However there are always some expections to the rule and I certainly fit into one of them so I speak on behalf of these women.

I always ask God for His help. I prayed to Jesus for His counsel on this issue. I know that He answered me. I believe that the family I have now is what I am blessed with. I choose not to have anymore children but to commit myself to them and the church community.