Giving Birth Control

[thistle]

It isn’t Protestant thinking at all, I do use both Bibles thank you very much. Have read the Catechism and still feel as I do. I know what the Church teaches !00%. Just said I didn’t agree with it all so now you have something else to blast me about. Don’t want you to have noone to judge or critize.

CCC 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

ANYONE committing heresy is committing a mortal sin and cannot receive Communion. Dying in such an unrepented state means eternity in Hell.

 

[Christopher68]

It isn’t Protestant thinking at all, I do use both Bibles thank you very much. Have read the Catechism and still feel as I do. I know what the Church teaches !00%. Just said I didn’t agree with it all so now you have something else to blast me about. Don’t want you to have noone to judge or critize.

I have been re-reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and I would venture a guess that at least 50% of Catholics will have disagreement with at least something in the Catechism, as it is very comprehensive and covers many different topics. Even Saint Peter struggled with his faith. I have more respect for people who struggle and ask questions about their faith than I have for people who blindly accept things without ever asking why.

 

[thistle]

I have been re-reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and I would venture a guess that at least 50% of Catholics will have disagreement with at least something in the Catechism, as it is very comprehensive and covers many different topics. Even Saint Peter struggled with his faith. I have more respect for people who struggle and ask questions about their faith than I have for people who blindly accept things without ever asking why.

The Church cannot make errors in matters of faith and morals otherwise that would mean Jesus had lied.

A Catholic may not understand a particular teaching and should make every effort to discuss and get an understanding of that teaching but they must accept that the Church teaching is correct even if they do not fully understand. That is not blind faith. That is believing what Jesus said when he established the Catholic Church.

Anyone who rejects a teaching (whether they understand it or not) commits heresy.
We cannot pick and choose the teachings we want to accept and reject the rest. That puts a Catholic into a state of mortal sin and endangers their soul. Satan would be rubbing his hands with glee at that.
Why would anyone deliberately choose to put their eternal soul in danger?

 

[George_Marchand]

If the intent of the birth control is not for birth control but for a medical condition, it is allowed by our Catholic Church.

    For instance one woman at the psychiatric hospital was prescribed birth control medication because her behaviors during her periods made her particularly violent.  So the intent of the medication was not birth control but to medically help her control her emotions.  The birth control aspect would be regarded as an unfortunate side effect.  Medications often do have more than one effect and purpose.

 Nobody is discussing tolerating evil to accomplish good,  One person said he does not shop at Walmart which sells the morning after pill.  Fine, but how many get their "good" prescriptions filled at most drugstores who also make a profit on birth control pills, Viagra or morning after pill?  How many people support movie theaters that offer R rated morally distasteful slasher films?  Or shop at almost ANY grocery store that sells condoms?

 

[tweetymom]

If the intent of the birth control is not for birth control but for a medical condition, it is allowed by our Catholic Church.

    For instance one woman at the psychiatric hospital was prescribed birth control medication because her behaviors during her periods made her particularly violent.  So the intent of the medication was not birth control but to medically help her control her emotions.  The birth control aspect would be regarded as an unfortunate side effect.  Medications often do have more than one effect and purpose.

 Nobody is discussing tolerating evil to accomplish good,  One person said he does not shop at Walmart which sells the morning after pill.  Fine, but how many get their "good" prescriptions filled at most drugstores who also make a profit on birth control pills, Viagra or morning after pill?  How many people support movie theaters that offer R rated morally distasteful slasher films?  Or shop at almost ANY grocery store that sells condoms?

Some swat at a gnat and swallow a camel.

 

[Christopher68]

The Church cannot make errors in matters of faith and morals otherwise that would mean Jesus had lied.

A Catholic may not understand a particular teaching and should make every effort to discuss and get an understanding of that teaching but they must accept that the Church teaching is correct even if they do not fully understand. That is not blind faith. That is believing what Jesus said when he established the Catholic Church.

Anyone who rejects a teaching (whether they understand it or not) commits heresy.
We cannot pick and choose the teachings we want to accept and reject the rest. That puts a Catholic into a state of mortal sin and endangers their soul. Satan would be rubbing his hands with glee at that.
Why would anyone deliberately choose to put their eternal soul in danger?

You can say it isn’t blind faith, but it certainly sounds like it to me.

 

[Reuben_J]

First try other methods, if there is no other choice whatsoever and you could die, then one must not be sexually active (married or not) in order to continue treatment.

And BTW, if you are in that much pain and in danger of death, sex is probably the last thng on your mind.

Is that a typo?

There is no question about being sexually active if one is not married. That’s fornication.

Earlier in the thread it was suggested that it is alright to prescirbe BCPs for mentally ill patients to protect them from getting pregnant should they be abused sexually. While strictly speaking on the principle of prohibition of BC that this is not allowed some posters here nevertheless advocated the use of ABC in such circumstances.

While ABC can be used for medical treatment, Catholic users should consider abstaining from sex while the treatment is ongoing. This is because ABC prevents implantation of the fertilized egg which result in it being discharged as aborted blood clot and this is equivalent to abortion.

 

[Seatuck]

The church does not require those women who make the decision to take the pill as a therapeutic medical treatment to abstain from marital intercourse.

 

[Karen1960]

Is that a typo?

There is no question about being sexually active if one is not married. That’s fornication.

Earlier in the thread it was suggested that it is alright to prescirbe BCPs for mentally ill patients to protect them from getting pregnant should they be abused sexually. While strictly speaking on the principle of prohibition of BC that this is not allowed some posters here nevertheless advocated the use of ABC in such circumstances.

While ABC can be used for medical treatment, Catholic users should consider abstaining from sex while the treatment is ongoing. This is because ABC prevents implantation of the fertilized egg which result in it being discharged as aborted blood clot and this is equivalent to abortion.

Not a typo, but maybe a little confusing (sorry) I just wanted to stress, as you also said that a married Catholic should consider abstaining from sex during treatment. Of course the unmarried this should not even be an issue.

 

[Reuben_J]

Not a typo, but maybe a little confusing (sorry) I just wanted to stress, as you also said that a married Catholic should consider abstaining from sex during treatment. Of course the unmarried this should not even be an issue.

Just as I thought. It would not be in line with the rest of your post otherwise.

God bless.

 

[Reuben_J]

The church does not require those women who make the decision to take the pill as a therapeutic medical treatment to abstain from marital intercourse.

Personally I would consider seriously about sex if the birth control pills are the abortificients type. If that’s unavoidable then I would consider whether to take the treatment or not. My conscience would tell me whether I should sacrifice sex or the life of the unborn. It’s clear that the latter should take precedent as the sanctity of life is of prime importance.

God bless.

 

[Seatuck]

Personally I would consider seriously about sex if the birth control pills are the abortificients type. If that’s unavoidable then I would consider whether to take the treatment or not. My conscience would tell me whether I should sacrifice sex or the life of the unborn. It’s clear that the latter should take precedent as the sanctity of life is of prime importance.

God bless.

That’s ok for you . But the church doesn’ t require it as the intent is not to abort a child but to renew one’s marriage vows in the exercise of the marital act which is a good.

You should also know that there is little evidence that the pills actually are successful as an abortifacient given the the high rate of pill pregnancies. There have been no studies showing this affect. There is a possible potential for the affect but it isn’t proven with any data.

Many physicians who agree on the definition of when life starts- at conception disagree on the abortifacient potential of the pill.

That being said, I don’t think it should be ignored that they are possibly abortifacient. I think I might take an ovulation test or something If I was in that situation.

 

[humble_maid]

Birth control is an emotional subject especially for women who were at their wit end and need to use it as last resort. It seems to be unfair telling them not to use it while at the same time unable to provide alternative treatment to them.

But the Church’s ruling is very clear - oral contraception is not allowed and it is a sin. That is the choice that women and their husbands have to make. No amount of justification will change what a sin is. So it is always prudent to discuss this with a priest before embarking on birth control pills. A poster earlier on mentioned that a priest did actually recommend birth control for mentally ill patients. Well, at least he tried to get advice, rightly or wrongly.

God bless you.

Dear Reuben,

I consulted my parish priest before making the decision again to go on ABC. He heard my case and understood that I exhausted all other avenues before embarking on ABC. He made me understand that because I do not use it for the purposes of preventing pregnancies but to alleviate a medical condition that I was absolved.

You say it is a sin no matter what. This reminds me of the story in which the pharisees accuse Jesus of breaking the sabbath because he cured a man on that day. They accused Him of committing a grave sin against God according to the laws of Moses. The CC has established that ABC is a sin; however in the case where it has therapeutic services it may be granted to the patient till treatment is needed. As to whether a married couple should obstain indefinitely. this is a matter of conscience.

God Bless

 

[Reuben_J]

That’s ok for you . But the church doesn’ t require it as the intent is not to abort a child but to renew one’s marriage vows in the exercise of the marital act which is a good.

The exercise of marital act in marriage is for the objective of reproduction of life beside the union of oneness of the couple.

You should also know that there is little evidence that the pills actually are successful as an abortifacient given the the high rate of pill pregnancies. There have been no studies showing this affect. There is a possible potential for the affect but it isn’t proven with any data.

I DISAGREE. One of the stated functions of the pills is to prevent implantation of the fertilized egg on the wall of the uterus for it to develop into a viable foetus. The failure of implantation due to the abortificient causes the fertilized egg to abort as menstrual discharge. The occurrence of pregnancies despite the ABC is the exceptions rather than the rules.

Many physicians who agree on the definition of when life starts- at conception disagree on the abortifacient potential of the pill.

Yes, there are such physicians. I however personally know a Catholic consultant gynaecologist who is an expert on this whom I got my information that BC pills are abortificient. There are lots of conspiracies out there regarding BCP but I am not going into this as it can be construed as hearsay.

That being said, I don’t think it should be ignored that they are possibly abortifacient. I think I might take an ovulation test or something If I was in that situation.

That would be too late though. You wouldn’t know you’re pregnant unless you miss your period.

I would say it is always the personal choice. I am only putting up my view and finding about the moral of BCP. It begins with the position that life begins at conception, that is when the egg is fertilized by the husband’s sperm during marital act. From this stage onwards there should not be a hindrance or obstacle for it not to develop into a full fledge human being. BCP acts as hindrance to this process, the reason why the Church prohibits its use. That’s the reason that I advocate abstaining from sexual relation even if BCP is being prescribed for treatment purpose.

God bless.

 

[Reuben_J]

Dear Reuben,

I consulted my parish priest before making the decision again to go on ABC. He heard my case and understood that I exhausted all other avenues before embarking on ABC. He made me understand that because I do not use it for the purposes of preventing pregnancies but to alleviate a medical condition that I was absolved.

You say it is a sin no matter what. This reminds me of the story in which the pharisees accuse Jesus of breaking the sabbath because he cured a man on that day. They accused Him of committing a grave sin against God according to the laws of Moses. The CC has established that ABC is a sin; however in the case where it has therapeutic services it may be granted to the patient till treatment is needed. As to whether a married couple should obstain indefinitely. this is a matter of conscience.

God Bless

Hi Humble. You pursued a wise course of action by consulting a priest. You had done your best and the treatment was the last resort. If I were you I would most probably in clear conscience be satisfied by the action you had taken, that was, to take up the treatment.

BTW, the analogy of Jesus breaking the Sabbath and the usage of ABC is hardly apt. One is about the breaking of the Sabbath for the greater act of love to feed the hungry while the other is to abstain from marital act for the purpose of avoiding the killing of life.

Fortunately or unfortunately I have this knowledge and am convinced that the BCP is abortificient. If you believe that BCP is abortificient then would you partake in it knowingly that there is a possibility you will abort a foetus in the process? The only exception for this would be not to believe that BCP is abortificient or you’re ignorant that it is not an abortificient.

Surely knowledge restricts us in the course of action that we are undertaking or that we will not do the things that are not right.

God bless.

 

[Seatuck]

Do you understand the principal of double effect? We can have knowledge of the possibility of a bad thing but as long as that effect is unintended we can proceed as long as the other guidelines are met.

cuf.org/FaithFacts/details_view.asp?ffID=56

 

[ryecroft]

They told you that birth control pills are not abortificiants? Have you read the packet of information given to you by the pharmacist? That’s where I read it, and I took 3 different kinds, so maybe you can look there. If it does not have that warning, would you mind telling me the brand so I can look into it? You can do it via PM if you’d prefer, I do not wish to argue about it, am truly wondering which kinds are not. I agree that it is morally acceptable to take BCP if you are using them for a medical condition, I’m not questioning why you are using them. Just the information that most (or any even) are not abortificiants, and mostly just want to research it. Thanks!

Perhaps what needs to be said and for the one that got this information from her PCP and or OBGYN (which I got the same information from) is that CERTAIN birth control pills MAY have an abortifacient possibility - yet, I have yet to see studies that confirm this. What my GYN told me was that on some versions of the pill there was a very miniscule chance that there MIGHT be an egg not released during regular ovulation - (she also said this is generally the reason - outside of human error for “oops” pregnancies on the pill and yes, she’s Catholic) - and IF that egg is fertalized then it is therorized that it may not be able to implant in the lining/wall of the uterus. She personally never saw any studies proving this but that the Church “jumped on the bandwagon” to find another reason to tell Catholics that using the pill was wrong. Of course even Fr. Serpa on here has come and said that if you are on the pill for medical reasons than even if married and active (you understand what this means) that you are allowed to use the pill even with the chance of it having abortifacient properties. Just as a not another doctor did mention to me that she heard about a possible study that PPH was going to do regarding this situation - I have no idea how they will do this or when but hopefully that will help some people. Unfortunately, it will be by a somewhat biased group. Also, Seatuck, thank you for explaining some of the double effect belief that the CHURCH came up with.
God Bless
Ryecroft

 

[kage_ar]

Perhaps what needs to be said and for the one that got this information from her PCP and or OBGYN (which I got the same information from) is that CERTAIN birth control pills MAY have an abortifacient possibility - yet, I have yet to see studies that confirm this. What my GYN told me was that on some versions of the pill there was a very miniscule chance that there MIGHT be an egg not released during regular ovulation - (she also said this is generally the reason - outside of human error for “oops” pregnancies on the pill and yes, she’s Catholic) - and IF that egg is fertalized then it is therorized that it may not be able to implant in the lining/wall of the uterus. She personally never saw any studies proving this but that the Church “jumped on the bandwagon” to find another reason to tell Catholics that using the pill was wrong. Of course even Fr. Serpa on here has come and said that if you are on the pill for medical reasons than even if married and active (you understand what this means) that you are allowed to use the pill even with the chance of it having abortifacient properties. Just as a not another doctor did mention to me that she heard about a possible study that PPH was going to do regarding this situation - I have no idea how they will do this or when but hopefully that will help some people. Unfortunately, it will be by a somewhat biased group. Also, Seatuck, thank you for explaining some of the double effect belief that the CHURCH came up with.
God Bless
Ryecroft

I will donate a dollar to the poor box if you can provide the PACKAGE INSERT link to one form of perscription oral contraceptive where the manufacturer does not state the abortificiant as a possibility. Just one, only one - they are all available online from the drug company, this should be an easy one for you.

 

[rev_kevin]

What I don’t understand is when a life becomes a life. If the sperm and egg don’t come together then there is no life. Inorder for there to be life the sperm must fertilize the egg. May I be so bold as to ask if you don’t use any type of protection and you only have one or two children is that the only time you have intercourse with your spouse, If not then you are using some method of protection or control otherwise you would be like the Duggers and have 20 kids. I hear that some religions use the time method, you know when the women cycle has something to do with it. Well isn’t that a type of protection or birth control. You don’t want to have a child so you use this method not to have kids. Seems like some type of birth control to me because you are controling birth, you are doing something to prevent that child from being born. Birth control no matter which method you use is still birth control.

 

[Seatuck]

What I don’t understand is when a life becomes a life. If the sperm and egg don’t come together then there is no life. Inorder for there to be life the sperm must fertilize the egg. May I be so bold as to ask if you don’t use any type of protection and you only have one or two children is that the only time you have intercourse with your spouse, If not then you are using some method of protection or control otherwise you would be like the Duggers and have 20 kids. I hear that some religions use the time method, you know when the women cycle has something to do with it. Well isn’t that a type of protection or birth control. You don’t want to have a child so you use this method not to have kids. Seems like some type of birth control to me because you are controling birth, you are doing something to prevent that child from being born. Birth control no matter which method you use is still birth control.

A life becomes a life at conception.
The Church isn’t against planning families or “birth control” per se.In fact she encourages us to be responsible parents and consider what is best for our families, the church and society at large. However she is against artificial birth control. We have a higher view of the marital act than most other christians do. We may partake of natural methods such as the “time” method that you allude to because they do not damage the meaning of the marital act which must be unitive and procreative in nature.Although if a couple have serious reasons to abstain such a method is not very reliable and they should choose another with more accurate record keeping. The marital act must be a total gift. The use of artificial contraception and any act which prevents the wife from receiving the natural gift from her husbands body is immoral.

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html