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JulianN
Guest
I keep gift cards for local fast food restaurants on me for just those moments. If people are genuinely hungry, they’ll be happy to get them.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
We typically don’t go around with a pack of water bottles handy for when we see a panhandler.
Also, if the soup kitchen is right there, which it often is, presumably they can supply water to people in need of it.
Most of the panhandlers I see around urban churches are not looking for water or food. Almost always there is a soup kitchen right in the area (if not right at the church) for those basic needs. They are pretty clearly there at church time looking for money.
Also, if the soup kitchen is right there, which it often is, presumably they can supply water to people in need of it.
Most of the panhandlers I see around urban churches are not looking for water or food. Almost always there is a soup kitchen right in the area (if not right at the church) for those basic needs. They are pretty clearly there at church time looking for money.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The Washington Post, which is generally very friendly in its coverage of poor people, did a similar story recently featuring a guy who could get a job in his town but makes more money by standing at the highway exit with a sign, so that’s what he does all day instead of working.Several years ago, when I lived in San Diego, there was a huge article in the S.D.Union about all the people standing with signs asking for money. There was an investigation done and it found that most of those people aren’t homeless at all, their “job” is to stand on corners and freeway entrances, asking for money. That’s how they make their living and they make a lot of money doing it.
I do not give any money to anyone who approaches my car or stands by a highway exit. I feel that’s unsafe for both me and the person, and as you mention people have often taken this up as their “job” when they could be doing something else.
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redbaron162
Guest
We had a similar study in Atlanta were I lived that uncovered that many of the homeless people are pulling in upwards of 60k a year for begging (more than I make a year working overtime). They also followed some who were then seen getting in new luxury cars they had parked around the corner.
So no I don’t give to panhandlers. I give to St. Vincent De Paul which does wonderful work and does a good job vetting those who are really in need versus those who are trying to get easy money. If someone asks me for money I tell them to go to any Catholic parish and ask about St. Vincent de Paul. Due to my work I come in contact with the homeless a lot and I have personal knowledge that a great majority of them spend it on drugs and alcohol and I know they wont be able to through St. Vincent de Paul so that’s what I use.
So no I don’t give to panhandlers. I give to St. Vincent De Paul which does wonderful work and does a good job vetting those who are really in need versus those who are trying to get easy money. If someone asks me for money I tell them to go to any Catholic parish and ask about St. Vincent de Paul. Due to my work I come in contact with the homeless a lot and I have personal knowledge that a great majority of them spend it on drugs and alcohol and I know they wont be able to through St. Vincent de Paul so that’s what I use.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
St Vincent de Paul also will work with the poor people who come to them for help and try to get them the help they need, whether that’s with addiction treatment or with better financial planning. SVDP doesn’t just hand them some money and call it a day.
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redbaron162
Guest
Exactly, that’s why I am happy to support them. Sometimes they will get them services like treatment of mental health help, sometimes they will pay a bill for them if they cannot afford it, sometimes they will help them find employment or a home. All of which actually help the person instead of just throwing money at it.
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Sedona
Guest
If everyone is wasting their time waiting for a “worthy” poor person to help, then we are probably missing the point.
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exnihilo
Guest
That is cash and I doubt they lay taxes on it.
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exnihilo
Guest
They also tend to leave garbage. Near where I live there is a spot where people beg for money. Trash is scattered all about. I don’t consider it harmless and insignificant for people to come to where I live and litter.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
It’s not a case of finding a “worthy poor person”. We want to help in a way that won’t harm either the person or harm anyone else. We also want to make sure our help goes to people who are legitimately in need and not to someone running a scam or wasting the money.
Now that we have a social safety net in US and in many other Western countries, most poor people don’t go beg in the streets, so the very act of doing it is suspect - it suggests that the person is using money for something other than food, clothing and shelter, because they can get all those things through legitimate agencies.
Now that we have a social safety net in US and in many other Western countries, most poor people don’t go beg in the streets, so the very act of doing it is suspect - it suggests that the person is using money for something other than food, clothing and shelter, because they can get all those things through legitimate agencies.
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glorybe
Guest
After paying Medicare, supplemental insurance for doctors and medicines, deductibles, and co-pays, there’s not a great amount left of my social security and small pension income, I really do have to make sure that my donations are going to “worthy” poor people and charitable organizations. I’m grateful to those who have been doing the studies on these panhandlers, finding out they’re making more than I made when I was working 8-10 hours a day, and paying taxes. Seriously, I don’t think we’re “missing the point”.If everyone is wasting their time waiting for a “worthy” poor person to help, then we are probably missing the point.
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whichwaytogo47
Guest
Oh I so concur. We work hard for our money and so we don’t want someone to get shortchanged because someone else is running a scam. The homeless that are “given” a hotel room for turning in the money to the “boss” is effectively being trafficked and there should be laws against that. There should be significant prison sentences for this type of human trafficking even if they aren’t assaulted. I appreciate glorybe’s post.After paying Medicare, supplemental insurance for doctors and medicines, deductibles, and co-pays, there’s not a great amount left of my social security and small pension income, I really do have to make sure that my donations are going to “worthy” poor people and charitable organizations. I’m grateful to those who have been doing the studies on these panhandlers, finding out they’re making more than I made when I was working 8-10 hours a day, and paying taxes. Seriously, I don’t think we’re “missing the point”.
I appreciate the work of St Vincent De Paul too.
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Loud-living-dogma
Guest
Our pastor puts random words in all caps and bold in his message in our parish bulletin. The kids and I have to read it every week to decode the secret in the all caps and bold!
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whichwaytogo47
Guest
I really like your post because it shows two things: 1) any social services are in short supply and 2) unfortunately, throwing money or funding doesn’t necessarily solve the problem; it can actually prolong it and make it worse. Buying them food or them getting money will only help that day. It will not fix the situation they are in or their well-being and it seems to put a band-aid on the problem - not truly get them out of it. For example, the 21 year old would like a house, a stable job, and a wife so he could have kids and move forward with his life but finds himself in despair not knowing where to turn or where to go that has available assistance.
Think about the cost of providing housing or a barracks. It’s a lot just to have it for one night. Think about the Starbucks. They could let someone use their restroom or the YMCA could let someone use their showers. I do think government intervention makes it worse as it keeps people dependent on the government (which is vulnerable to budgetary cuts) instead of making it easier for charities to provide assistance to people (such as reducing health & safety laws for food given to the poor). So much GOOD food (like food that is healthy even for a diabetic) is thrown away because it’s slightly past expiration or because it cannot change hands. And than these charities could spend that money on other things allowing them to truly help someone in need (like housing, showers, personal care products, mental health services, or anything else they might need). Personal care products and dental care are probably even more necessary than food and are in such short supply.
I think the issue with just throwing money at the problem is that sadly, the laws of economics work for everything including providing help to the poor and needy. When something is “free,” it is demanded by more people (including free-riders) than the amount of supply available (aka come back tomorrow) and thus there is a shortage, sometimes a significant shortage. A 21 year old male is not the same priority level as a 24 year old female with 2 babies. It’s definitely a big issue and one that requires compassion and a level of openness.
Think about the cost of providing housing or a barracks. It’s a lot just to have it for one night. Think about the Starbucks. They could let someone use their restroom or the YMCA could let someone use their showers. I do think government intervention makes it worse as it keeps people dependent on the government (which is vulnerable to budgetary cuts) instead of making it easier for charities to provide assistance to people (such as reducing health & safety laws for food given to the poor). So much GOOD food (like food that is healthy even for a diabetic) is thrown away because it’s slightly past expiration or because it cannot change hands. And than these charities could spend that money on other things allowing them to truly help someone in need (like housing, showers, personal care products, mental health services, or anything else they might need). Personal care products and dental care are probably even more necessary than food and are in such short supply.
I think the issue with just throwing money at the problem is that sadly, the laws of economics work for everything including providing help to the poor and needy. When something is “free,” it is demanded by more people (including free-riders) than the amount of supply available (aka come back tomorrow) and thus there is a shortage, sometimes a significant shortage. A 21 year old male is not the same priority level as a 24 year old female with 2 babies. It’s definitely a big issue and one that requires compassion and a level of openness.
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Sedona
Guest
Good Evening Glorybe and whichway to go:
I don’t think either of you are understanding the point, although I wasn’t explicit. I have spent most of my adult life in affluence. I live in an affluent neighborhood. I have affluent friends. I make decisions that impact the lives of other people simply because of my position. From this vantage point I can tell you that it isn’t the poor who are fleecing you. The only citizens in the United States who truly matter are corporations and the people at the head of them. We don’t pay anywhere near as much of our income on taxes percentagewise as you do. We have paid accountants who know how to move money. We decide who you get to vote for. We decide what laws get passed and how wealth is distributed and the system is set up to make sure very little of it goes to you or anyone who doesn’t belong to the opulent class. And those among us who really don’t care (I am not among the ones who don’t care) have selected politicians with certain talking points and used social influence to convince the average hard working person that the real drain on society is the poor, when nothing could be farther from the truth. The drain on society are the people who are hoarding the vast majority of the money that exists and keeping it out of the system while keeping the system rigged in such a way that the vast majority can never get in that position. The majority are under the heel of mortgages and loans they really can’t afford and are consigned to a system that is designed to place them in hopeless servitude for life while pacifying them with toys like 72 inch TVs, beer and NFL, all of which dumb people down and perpetuate a condition they don’t really know they’re in. If you are among those who couldn’t go a few years without your income, then you’re in the same boat.
As for the poor, well they are the least among us. For the most part, they’re in a quandary that even the best and brightest among us would fail to extricate ourselves from. It’s always been that way with the poor. There are no noble poor. But on the same token, there is no one who is undeserving of our care regardless of their mistakes or shortcomings. If you have to calculate the worthiness of anyone before we open our hearts to the idea of helping, then we are missing the point. I have read the gospels and I don’t claim to be much of a good person. But I understand the message and the message is a loadstar. When Jesus of Nazareth said to help the poor, I don’t recall that he advised that we check out their worthiness credentials first, because few people become poor by being the best among us or by being noble of intent or by doing all the right things or by being so very clever. The poor are an inconvenient lot and are seldom saintly. It’s always been this way with the poor. But who among us would fare well if we needed to pass a worthiness test before we can be pitied or helped? If someone squanders the help you give them, then that’s on them. But failing to help, well that’s on us. That’s the only way I can see it.
I don’t think either of you are understanding the point, although I wasn’t explicit. I have spent most of my adult life in affluence. I live in an affluent neighborhood. I have affluent friends. I make decisions that impact the lives of other people simply because of my position. From this vantage point I can tell you that it isn’t the poor who are fleecing you. The only citizens in the United States who truly matter are corporations and the people at the head of them. We don’t pay anywhere near as much of our income on taxes percentagewise as you do. We have paid accountants who know how to move money. We decide who you get to vote for. We decide what laws get passed and how wealth is distributed and the system is set up to make sure very little of it goes to you or anyone who doesn’t belong to the opulent class. And those among us who really don’t care (I am not among the ones who don’t care) have selected politicians with certain talking points and used social influence to convince the average hard working person that the real drain on society is the poor, when nothing could be farther from the truth. The drain on society are the people who are hoarding the vast majority of the money that exists and keeping it out of the system while keeping the system rigged in such a way that the vast majority can never get in that position. The majority are under the heel of mortgages and loans they really can’t afford and are consigned to a system that is designed to place them in hopeless servitude for life while pacifying them with toys like 72 inch TVs, beer and NFL, all of which dumb people down and perpetuate a condition they don’t really know they’re in. If you are among those who couldn’t go a few years without your income, then you’re in the same boat.
As for the poor, well they are the least among us. For the most part, they’re in a quandary that even the best and brightest among us would fail to extricate ourselves from. It’s always been that way with the poor. There are no noble poor. But on the same token, there is no one who is undeserving of our care regardless of their mistakes or shortcomings. If you have to calculate the worthiness of anyone before we open our hearts to the idea of helping, then we are missing the point. I have read the gospels and I don’t claim to be much of a good person. But I understand the message and the message is a loadstar. When Jesus of Nazareth said to help the poor, I don’t recall that he advised that we check out their worthiness credentials first, because few people become poor by being the best among us or by being noble of intent or by doing all the right things or by being so very clever. The poor are an inconvenient lot and are seldom saintly. It’s always been this way with the poor. But who among us would fare well if we needed to pass a worthiness test before we can be pitied or helped? If someone squanders the help you give them, then that’s on them. But failing to help, well that’s on us. That’s the only way I can see it.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I’m sorry, but the tone of this post is so arrogant that whatever point you are trying to make is lost in the noise.
Also, you are preaching to the choir. Several of us have been involved with SVDP or support their work. There is nothing you’ve said in your post that an SVDP representative or training class hasn’t already said (probably more concisely and with a much more user-friendly tone).
Also, you are preaching to the choir. Several of us have been involved with SVDP or support their work. There is nothing you’ve said in your post that an SVDP representative or training class hasn’t already said (probably more concisely and with a much more user-friendly tone).
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harryguy
Guest
This really can be a opportunity to get a answer from the holy spirit that is more than yes no not now
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Hereiam
Guest
Not meaning to be provocative, but how big is that boat, really? For years, conventional wisdom has dictated that huge portions of the federal budget go to either welfare or foreign aid, and both are relatively small portions of the pie chart of government spending.should i give “them” $ or let them rely on “social services” for which i am paying boatloads of property taxes for… ??
Perhaps you are right, but I know my property taxes contribute little to nothing for social programs; the overwhelming majority goes to new school construction, new roads, newly hired police and fire fighters, upkeep of parks, etc. I guess it could be different where you live.
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WileyC1949
Guest
Panhandlers I am hesitant about because of the reasons you stated. However any time I see someone searching through the trash I will buy them a meal. When I lived in NYC a friend of mine had worked out a voucher system with a local restaurant. If anyone came in with the voucher they would get a free meal and it would be charged to my friend.
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Sedona
Guest
I regret that you have taken my post as arrogant. It’s simply truthful. I guess my point is that it’s always odd for me to see how people deliberate over giving to the needy while they seem to have no questions about handing over the vast majority of the aggregate output of society to a small percentage of people who own most everything. It’s curious that in a rigged and unfair system, people always seem to focus their angst on those who have the least. That is my point. From a strictly objective view, it’s a very curious thing.
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