Giving up on marriage

[minkymurph]

I am compelled to write this post in regard to views on marriage. In contemporary society we are all too keen to give up on relationship because it is not perfect or because we are unhappy. I posted a while ago in regard to problems in my marriage and I received very bad advice from some posters on this forum. These posters advised me to leave my husband until he got his act together. I am glad I did not follow their advice.

My marriage was a living hell for some time. My husband was drinking heavily and some posters on this forum advised me to leave until he got his act together and inferred I was a bad mother for not doing so. Recently, things are looking up and I whilst my children did think we would be happier living apart from my husband, deep down they much preferred divorce did not happen and we worked it out. My husband still drinks too much but things are better and some of what we used to have has come back. My children are delighted and I realized if I left my husband it was not just an end to a marriage, I would have lost my best friend.

No marriage is perfect and today people seem to think if a relationship is not going their way and they are not happy they should just give up on it, or leave until their partner makes them happy and gives them what they want. This is unrealistic and leads to people chopping and changing partners all the time to be happy and have what they want all the time. I stuck it out and I am glad I did as things are improving. There are times I cannot see my husband far enough but I will never stop loving him and I have learned to stop fighting, I got movement by doing as Saint Peter said, winning him over without a word. I ignored what he did and just got on with things on my own. When I stopped begging for his affection and for him to do things and got on myself without him he started to come on board in realization he was taking himself out of the picture and we would carry on whether he wanted to be part of it or not.

I am glad I did not leave and those who told me to where wrong. They told me to leave to shock my husband into doing what he should. This was wrong because those who said this merely looked at his behaviour and said don’t put up with it thinking if I left he would change. He would not have, and he changed by my staying and dealing with matters in a better way. Doing so may well have saved my marriage.

Moral of the story - equate yourself with all the facts before giving advice and don’t assume what works in one situation will work in another. There is always more than one answer to a problem.

 

[Xantippe]

I am compelled to write this post in regard to views on marriage. In contemporary society we are all too keen to give up on relationship because it is not perfect or because we are unhappy. I posted a while ago in regard to problems in my marriage and I received very bad advice from some posters on this forum. These posters advised me to leave my husband until he got his act together. I am glad I did not follow their advice.

My marriage was a living hell for some time. My husband was drinking heavily and some posters on this forum advised me to leave until he got his act together and inferred I was a bad mother for not doing so. Recently, things are looking up and I whilst my children did think we would be happier living apart from my husband, deep down they much preferred divorce did not happen and we worked it out. My husband still drinks too much but things are better and some of what we used to have has come back. My children are delighted and I realized if I left my husband it was not just an end to a marriage, I would have lost my best friend.

No marriage is perfect and today people seem to think if a relationship is not going their way and they are not happy they should just give up on it, or leave until their partner makes them happy and gives them what they want. This is unrealistic and leads to people chopping and changing partners all the time to be happy and have what they want all the time. I stuck it out and I am glad I did as things are improving. There are times I cannot see my husband far enough but I will never stop loving him and I have learned to stop fighting, I got movement by doing as Saint Peter said, winning him over without a word. I ignored what he did and just got on with things on my own. When I stopped begging for his affection and for him to do things and got on myself without him he started to come on board in realization he was taking himself out of the picture and we would carry on whether he wanted to be part of it or not.

I am glad I did not leave and those who told me to where wrong. They told me to leave to shock my husband into doing what he should. This was wrong because those who said this merely looked at his behaviour and said don’t put up with it thinking if I left he would change. He would not have, and he changed by my staying and dealing with matters in a better way. Doing so may well have saved my marriage.

Moral of the story - equate yourself with all the facts before giving advice and don’t assume what works in one situation will work in another. There is always more than one answer to a problem.

So, what you’re saying is that if you had made your husband choose between you and alcohol, he would have chosen alcohol, so you’re glad you didn’t make him choose?

 

[EasterJoy]

I would hope that anyone who suggested “leaving until he gets his act together” were referring to separation with the bond remaining in order to be protected from a parent/spouse who was not staying sober.

If your suffering was redemptive–actually removing a near occasion of sin or enslavement for your husband–that is a Christian thing to do. If it was co-dependent–meaning that it enabled the sin or made the enslavement more “manageable”–then that was not a Christian thing to do. Very often, those two things are not as clear-cut as anyone would like. You sound like you are doing the best that you can to keep a redemptive goal in mind rather than avoiding suffering in mind, but still avoiding an “enabling” pattern. That’s the idea, although the suffering should not be extended to your children, as it can do terrible and lasting damage to them.

In theory, you are on the money. In practice, you know it is far less clear-cut than that. Hang in there, and please find people to support you and help you to discern your way. By no means should you do this alone, for both the sake of yourself, your children, and your husband.

 

[Lou2U]

So, what you’re saying is that if you had made your husband choose between you and alcohol, he would have chosen alcohol, so you’re glad you didn’t make him choose?

Yes, this is what I’m getting, too.

I’ve read the OP of where you talked about your husband’s addiction problems. Your husband was being verbally and emotionally abusive towards you and your oldest child was “making excuses” for him. In your situation, I too would have suggested a separation.

Posters here can only go on what you write. If you tell people that your husband is an alcoholic, that he is rude to you and demeans you, that is what people will base their reply on. We cannot use all the facts as we do not have them all - only what you tell us. It is for you to decide what advice is useful and what is not.

I am happy for you that your marriage is getting back on track.

Lou

 

[minkymurph]

Yes, this is what I’m getting, too.

I’ve read the OP of where you talked about your husband’s addiction problems. Your husband was being verbally and emotionally abusive towards you and your oldest child was “making excuses” for him. In your situation, I too would have suggested a separation.

Posters here can only go on what you write. If you tell people that your husband is an alcoholic, that he is rude to you and demeans you, that is what people will base their reply on. We cannot use all the facts as we do not have them all - only what you tell us. It is for you to decide what advice is useful and what is not.

I am happy for you that your marriage is getting back on track.

Lou

This is just the kind of reply I have come to expect of some people on CAF - one that puts the blame back on the other person and a denial of any personal responsibility. That is another prevalent characteristic of contemporary society. ‘I didn’t do anything wrong, you said this, you did that …and so on.’

People didn’t just suggest separation, the strongly implied I was a bad mother but I’ve said my piece. If that’s what people want to believe I’m quite sure nothing I say would make any difference.

I also went to see a solicitor. The solicitor said that for legal reasons he would NEVER tell a client to leave the family home. He told me to hang on in there and NOT leave the family home. He said I could only have my husband leave if I felt fear.

 

[minkymurph]

So, what you’re saying is that if you had made your husband choose between you and alcohol, he would have chosen alcohol, so you’re glad you didn’t make him choose?

No it’s not, and you know it isn’t.

If you want to believe people gave me good advice, you go on believing that. I’ve said my piece.

 

[Lou2U]

This is just the kind of reply I have come to expect of some people on CAF - one that puts the blame back on the other person and a denial of any personal responsibility. That is another prevalent characteristic of contemporary society. ‘I didn’t do anything wrong, you said this, you did that …and so on.’

People didn’t just suggest separation, the strongly implied I was a bad mother but I’ve said my piece. If that’s what people want to believe I’m quite sure nothing I say would make any difference.

I also went to see a solicitor. The solicitor said that for legal reasons he would NEVER tell a client to leave the family home. He told me to hang on in there and NOT leave the family home. He said I could only have my husband leave if I felt fear.

Honestly, your husband had an addiction and was being verbally abusive to you. I’m not sure why this means you deserve blame. Whatever you “did” wrong in your marriage does not mean you would have been in denial by separating.

Again, you don’t have to listen to any advice you do not think is helpful, and I’m glad your marriage is getting better.

Lou

 

[GreyWings]

OP, I’m Irish too (born in the U.S. though) but my family is Irish through and through and I know all about the struggles with the drinking. I grew up with an alcoholic parent and it screwed me up big time, but whatever, I have a broken wing and it is what it is.

Only you can decide what path to choose. Nobody can tell you what to do. Only you can decide that for yourself.

But the drinking is concerning. I know all about it. Your husband probably, by best guess, has a drinking problem. And if this is the case, he’ll need to get help. That doesn’t mean you have to leave him. But it does mean that he needs to address the drinking.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I am compelled to write this post in regard to views on marriage. In contemporary society we are all too keen to give up on relationship because it is not perfect or because we are unhappy. I posted a while ago in regard to problems in my marriage and I received very bad advice from some posters on this forum. These posters advised me to leave my husband until he got his act together. I am glad I did not follow their advice.

My marriage was a living hell for some time. My husband was drinking heavily and some posters on this forum advised me to leave until he got his act together and inferred I was a bad mother for not doing so. Recently, things are looking up and I whilst my children did think we would be happier living apart from my husband, deep down they much preferred divorce did not happen and we worked it out. My husband still drinks too much but things are better and some of what we used to have has come back. My children are delighted and I realized if I left my husband it was not just an end to a marriage, I would have lost my best friend.

No marriage is perfect and today people seem to think if a relationship is not going their way and they are not happy they should just give up on it, or leave until their partner makes them happy and gives them what they want. This is unrealistic and leads to people chopping and changing partners all the time to be happy and have what they want all the time. I stuck it out and I am glad I did as things are improving. There are times I cannot see my husband far enough but I will never stop loving him and I have learned to stop fighting, I got movement by doing as Saint Peter said, winning him over without a word. I ignored what he did and just got on with things on my own. When I stopped begging for his affection and for him to do things and got on myself without him he started to come on board in realization he was taking himself out of the picture and we would carry on whether he wanted to be part of it or not.

I am glad I did not leave and those who told me to where wrong. They told me to leave to shock my husband into doing what he should. This was wrong because those who said this merely looked at his behaviour and said don’t put up with it thinking if I left he would change. He would not have, and he changed by my staying and dealing with matters in a better way. Doing so may well have saved my marriage.

Moral of the story - equate yourself with all the facts before giving advice and don’t assume what works in one situation will work in another. There is always more than one answer to a problem.

If you ask people for advice, they are probably going to give you advice, here or in “real life.” Some of the advice may be good, some bad, some in the middle. You’ll get all kinds of opinions. It’s your responsibility to weigh those opinions and accept or reject them. It’s not the responsibility of the advice givers. Only you can judge what is best for your own life and your own family.

I hope things continue to keep looking up for you.

 

[minkymurph]

If you ask people for advice, they are probably going to give you advice, here or in “real life.” Some of the advice may be good, some bad, some in the middle. You’ll get all kinds of opinions. It’s your responsibility to weigh those opinions and accept or reject them. It’s not the responsibility of the advice givers. Only you can judge what is best for your own life and your own family.

True, but it is the responsibility of advice give not to say things that are false and hurtful to someone who in desperation is reaching out for help. When people are crushed the last thing they need is someone making them feel worse.

I hope things continue to keep looking up for you.

Thank you

 

[minkymurph]

OP, I’m Irish too (born in the U.S. though) but my family is Irish through and through and I know all about the struggles with the drinking. I grew up with an alcoholic parent and it screwed me up big time, but whatever, I have a broken wing and it is what it is.

Only you can decide what path to choose. Nobody can tell you what to do. Only you can decide that for yourself.

But the drinking is concerning. I know all about it. Your husband probably, by best guess, has a drinking problem. And if this is the case, he’ll need to get help. That doesn’t mean you have to leave him. But it does mean that he needs to address the drinking.

Being Irish you will know we have a very casual attitude to drinking too much. My husband’s drinking didn’t bother me in the past because he was a happy drunk, and didn’t get drunk all the time. He is drinking less now.

 

[GreyWings]

Being Irish you will know we have a very casual attitude to drinking too much. My husband’s drinking didn’t bother me in the past because he was a happy drunk, and didn’t get drunk all the time. He is drinking less now.

Oh yes, I know the casualness…

I’m glad he’s drinking less. I will pray for your marriage.

 

[dedo]

True, but it is the responsibility of advice give not to say things that are false and hurtful to someone who in desperation is reaching out for help. When people are crushed the last thing they need is someone making them feel worse.

Thank you

You bring up an interesting point about spiritual direction. The internet is not always, and maybe not often a place to get good advice.

I am glad you guys are doing better, and that you followed your heart instead of internet advice.

An interesting thread would be on how to make better decisions.

I have just a couple suggestions that I am using although I am far from where I want to be:

self educate
whenever possible, talk to experts in their area of expertise
spend time with God, ask Him for guidance
trust your intuition
If something does not feel right, don’t do it

Good luck.

 

[LongingSoul]

I am compelled to write this post in regard to views on marriage. In contemporary society we are all too keen to give up on relationship because it is not perfect or because we are unhappy. I posted a while ago in regard to problems in my marriage and I received very bad advice from some posters on this forum. These posters advised me to leave my husband until he got his act together. I am glad I did not follow their advice.

My marriage was a living hell for some time. My husband was drinking heavily and some posters on this forum advised me to leave until he got his act together and inferred I was a bad mother for not doing so. Recently, things are looking up and I whilst my children did think we would be happier living apart from my husband, deep down they much preferred divorce did not happen and we worked it out. My husband still drinks too much but things are better and some of what we used to have has come back. My children are delighted and I realized if I left my husband it was not just an end to a marriage, I would have lost my best friend.

No marriage is perfect and today people seem to think if a relationship is not going their way and they are not happy they should just give up on it, or leave until their partner makes them happy and gives them what they want. This is unrealistic and leads to people chopping and changing partners all the time to be happy and have what they want all the time. I stuck it out and I am glad I did as things are improving. There are times I cannot see my husband far enough but I will never stop loving him and I have learned to stop fighting, I got movement by doing as Saint Peter said, winning him over without a word. I ignored what he did and just got on with things on my own. When I stopped begging for his affection and for him to do things and got on myself without him he started to come on board in realization he was taking himself out of the picture and we would carry on whether he wanted to be part of it or not.

I am glad I did not leave and those who told me to where wrong. They told me to leave to shock my husband into doing what he should. This was wrong because those who said this merely looked at his behaviour and said don’t put up with it thinking if I left he would change. He would not have, and he changed by my staying and dealing with matters in a better way. Doing so may well have saved my marriage.

Moral of the story - equate yourself with all the facts before giving advice and don’t assume what works in one situation will work in another. There is always more than one answer to a problem.

Could you cut and paste your original post to CAF about your situation? I don’t remember it or perhaps it was before my time. You say that members were wrong in their advice and I think it would give us all a better perspective if you could link to the post you posted that solicited members negative response.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Being Irish you will know we have a very casual attitude to drinking too much. My husband’s drinking didn’t bother me in the past because he was a happy drunk, and didn’t get drunk all the time. He is drinking less now.

Even though he’s a “happy drunk” are you aware that drinking can cause major health problems, including brain tumors, liver problems, etc.? No one should have more than a glass of wine daily, and certainly no alcohol at all if he or she intends to drive.

 

[EasterJoy]

Even though he’s a “happy drunk” are you aware that drinking can cause major health problems, including brain tumors, liver problems, etc.? No one should have more than a glass of wine daily, and certainly no alcohol at all if he or she intends to drive.

Drunk is not one or two drinks. We’re talking way beyond that, and I’m sure the OP is more than aware of how damaging this could be to him. As the saying from Al-Anon goes, “you didn’t cause it, you can’t cure it, and you can’t control it.” This is true whether the over-drinker is an alcoholic or a non-addicted person who elects to abuse.

The spouse of an alcoholic can only decide what strategies she will or won’t use to cope with it, and whether or not it is too dangerous or damaging to her spouse, herself, or anyone else to ask herself to co-exist with it.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Drunk is not one or two drinks. We’re talking way beyond that, and I’m sure the OP is more than aware of how damaging this could be to him. As the saying from Al-Anon goes, “you didn’t cause it, you can’t cure it, and you can’t control it.” This is true whether the over-drinker is an alcoholic or a non-addicted person who elects to abuse.

The spouse of an alcoholic can only decide what strategies she will or won’t use to cope with it, and whether or not it is too dangerous or damaging to her spouse, herself, or anyone else to ask herself to co-exist with it.

I’m not sure the OP is aware of how damaging alcohol can be because she said she didn’t mind his drunkenness since he was a “happy drunk.” If she loves him, I’d think she’d care about his health. She can’t MAKE him stop drinking, but I sure wouldn’t be “okay” with anyone I even remotely cared about drinking to excess.

I believe married people have an obligation to look out for each other. And everyone has the absolute obligation to make sure a person who has had any alcohol at all does NOT drive even if they have to take keys away or call the police.

 

[minkymurph]

I’m not sure the OP is aware of how damaging alcohol can be because she said she didn’t mind his drunkenness since he was a “happy drunk.” If she loves him, I’d think she’d care about his health. She can’t MAKE him stop drinking, but I sure wouldn’t be “okay” with anyone I even remotely cared about drinking to excess.

I believe married people have an obligation to look out for each other. And everyone has the absolute obligation to make sure a person who has had any alcohol at all does NOT drive even if they have to take keys away or call the police.

How can you say I am not aware of how damaging alcohol can be? What I was saying was if someone else chooses to damage themselves with alcohol their is not a lot I can do about it. It only becomes an issue is their alcohol abuse affects my well being or my children’s well being. If it does not affect that, what more am I supposed to do if someone who is an adult and well aware of how what they are doing affects them still chooses to do it? Being spouse does not mean being a keeper.

That said, I would like to retract what I said. I have been fooled, duped and l now think posters were right. I should divorce. I should end it forever and no going back. It’s over. I cannot leave the family home, but I don’t have to be married in it and let’s face it. What is the difference? Why can a couple not be divorced and live under the same roof for practical reasons? That is what my lawyer advised. It is possible to separate and live under the same roof and the reasons for doing so are practical and legal. Yes, I could move to another home but the only the frame changes not the picture. My husband would still have rights to see the children, I would be chasing him for maintenance, he could still make my life and the kids lives a misery, and he would get the family home while I paid extortionate rent earning half what he does.

All things considered, it is best to divorce yet live under the same roof. I have given up on a relationship. It is not going to happen and the Church does not allow it. So why not live in the same house yet be divorced? If I lived somewhere else my husband could still make my life a misery, and as he would have access to the kids he could still hurt them. I have moved out of our bedroom tonight and I will not be returning. The marriage is over but we must live in the same house. I will never know love, but perhaps the price of being loved is too high a price to pay.

I was wrong and posters on CAF were right. The marriage is over. They were wrong I can move out of the family home, but in staying in the family home things will be no worse.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

How can you say I am not aware of how damaging alcohol can be?

I said it because you said you were “okay” with his drinking because he was a “happy drunk.”

So, I assumed you knew about the health risks, etc. and the risks to innocent others if he chooses to drive while drunk.

I hope you make the best decisions for yourself and your children, and I don’t pretend to know what those are. Only you know, really.

Good luck and God bless.

 

[jmjZelie]

Minkymurph,
What has happened? Yesterday your posts were claiming posters were wrong and doing harm to your marriage by telling you to separate. Now you suddenly say CAF posters were right and that you are separating but not leaving the family home. This is all very alarming. Do you need to go to a priest or doctor…or the police? If something horrible has happened that has caused you to retract your statements after 24 hours, I urge you to seek help locally.

Praying for you, minkymurph.