Global warming skeptics as knowledgeable about science as climate change believers, study says

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Let me just add as reflection these words from Caritas in Veritate that this concern for the environment is linked to our duties towards the human person and we as the Church have a responsibility to to defend the environement along with the human dignity it supports from conception to natural death.
  1. The way humanity treats the environment influences the way it treats itself, and vice versa. This invites contemporary society to a serious review of its life-style, which, in many parts of the world, is prone to hedonism and consumerism, regardless of their harmful consequences…
The Church has a responsibility towards creation and she must assert this responsibility in the public sphere. In so doing, she must defend not only earth, water and air as gifts of creation that belong to everyone. She must above all protect mankind from self-destruction. …

In order to protect nature, it is not enough to intervene with economic incentives or deterrents; not even an apposite education is sufficient. These are important steps, but the decisive issue is the overall moral tenor of society. If there is a lack of respect for the right to life and to a natural death, if human conception, gestation and birth are made artificial, if human embryos are sacrificed to research, the conscience of society ends up losing the concept of human ecology and, along with it, that of environmental ecology. It is contradictory to insist that future generations respect the natural environment when our educational systems and laws do not help them to respect themselves. The book of nature is one and indivisible: it takes in not only the environment but also life, sexuality, marriage, the family, social relations: in a word, integral human development. Our duties towards the environment are linked to our duties towards the human person, considered in himself and in relation to others. It would be wrong to uphold one set of duties while trampling on the other. Herein lies a grave contradiction in our mentality and practice today: one which demeans the person, disrupts the environment and damages society.
 
epan said:
Quite sufficient. You are being obstinate, without justification. I support your right to be wrong, even though your attitude puzzles me. The world is made better by contrarians such as yourself. We’ll just have to disagree. I mean with the amount of evidence which has accumulated, and the stature and size of the scientific community which embraces it, your position seems like someone standing in a downpour drenched to the skin, and saying… “show me the rain. There is no rain.”
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It was a slide presentation. Man-made slide presentations. I want hard evidence. You claim there’s a lot of evidence but all you have is graphs, studies, and slide presentations. No physical evidence. If you want proof of the rain, I’ll take a picture of it when it happens.
 
epan said:
Do you think your denial is fear based? Our planet is the ultimate scarce resource. The emotion you inject into your replies suggest fear.

We would like to reach 2050 without an apocalyptic melt down. There are ways to do this, just look at costa rica… They seem to be on track.
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You are really not getting it, are you? With statements like that there should be something out there to prove your claim. I want to see the sign of the apocalyptic melt down. You 56%ers were claiming 20+ years ago the oceans were going to rise in 10 years. How about it?
 
Michael_Mayo said:
Are you here just to have some fun or serious discussion?
Its a little of both. I want physical evidence of global warming. That’s all. All you 56%ers give me is studies, graphs, and man-made slide presentations. I don’t want to debate, I want proof.

Is there a particular slide you would like to refute? All of them. They are man-made

I will play one more turn of “Show me…not good enough” but you will need to reciprocate with some sort of counter evidence if you expect me to hang in here with you. I will “reciprocate” when you provide actual evidence.

I feel I have brought quite a bit to this discussion while the naysayers have brought nothing but opinion. I beg to differ.
You also dissent from the majority view which includes the Catholic Church. On what basis do you dissent? Actual evidence. Like its really cold in the winter, and really hot in the summer. The oceans haven’t risen, dogs aren’t sleeping with cats, etc…

Since it is pictures you want here is one showing that the size of the summer polar ice cap has shrunk more than 20 percent since 1979.

nrdc.org/globalwarming/qthinice.asp Oh, great! Another computer model.

Do you doubt global warming totally or just the human cause? Both.

Do you have any concern about preserving clean air and water for future generations? No, I’m one of those who want to pollute the air and water for future generations. Stupid question, but typical of the 56%ers.

Help me understand where you are coming from. I don’t trust the 56%ers. Global Warming happens every year. ITS CALLED SPRING. DEAL WITH IT!
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K-McD said:
Global Warming happens every year. ITS CALLED SPRING. DEAL WITH IT!
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Wait a minute, global warming happens more frequently than every year; it happens every day: Afternoons are typically warmer than mornings, sometimes by more than 20 degrees! That is a lot more than the 1/2 degree over the last century. Why just yesterday locally, there was a low of 62 degrees and a high of…brace yourself…88 ! No computer model needed here folks, this was a 26 degree warming, within the same day!
 
Michael_Mayo said:
It is not computer model. Images from NASA satellites show that the area of permanent ice cover is contracting at a rate of 9 percent each decade. The polar ice cap as a whole is shrinking.
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In the summer, there is a huge amount of polar ice cap melting, yet coastal cities are not swamped. So isn’t this polar ice cap shrinkage stuff a bunch of hype?
 
Michael_Mayo said:
It is not computer model. Images from NASA satellites show that the area of permanent ice cover is contracting at a rate of 9 percent each decade. The polar ice cap as a whole is shrinking.
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NO They are actually increasing. I know, I’m a heretic for believing such things.
 
K-McD said:
http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/qthinice.asp Oh, great! Another computer model.
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It is not a computer model. It is one picture from 2011, overlayed with an outline of the same picture from 1979, proving that the ice caps have shrunk.

You seem to distrust the outline. The reason for such an outline is simply to save space in an article and make the point more simply, rather than putting the two pictures side by side.

You can see both satellite images at the NASA web site…

Oldest Arctic Sea Ice is Disappearing [NASA]

I have omitted them here because they are too large, and, I see that, while I was writing this Mayo has posted smaller versions of them.
 
K-McD said:
Here’s a question. **What happens to the adult beverage, liquid level **when the ice starts to melt?
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Is that what you are researching this evening? 😃 I am wondering, because your posts are increasingly belligerant and incoherent.
 
So what if the earth has warmed up by 1/2 of a degree in the last 100 years? It’s part of a natural fluctuation. Cooling, warming, cooling, etc.

Two pictures, one from 1980 and one from 2012. Wow. Are there pictures from 1880 and 1912? 1780 and 1812? How about a random sample of pictures instead of two cherry-picked pictures? And how is a millimeter of ocean rising measured with any degree of accuracy, worldwide or even at one spot, given the immense variability in nature?

There’s no solid proof for doomsayer claims about the future regarding slight temperature fluctuations through the years.
 
K-McD said:
Insufficient. You didn’t provide anything that proves it is happening. I want pictures and all you gave me were words. This shouldn’t be hard, you’ve had over 20 years worth of actual “evidence”. Go back and try again.
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You have been given the pictures. What do you say to them?
 
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