Global warming slowdown could last another decade

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Yes so regarding climate.
The point is climate is the statistical aggregate of weather (which is chaotic and difficult to predict more than 2 weeks out), but climate is not so chaotic and does not have nearly as many variables as local, short term weather patterns.

If climate were that chaotic with even 100 important impacting variables, then each year’s globally averaged temps would be swinging not a tiny fraction of a degree as the chart below shows (the largest year to year swings being a bit over .2C, but not up to .3C), but 10C or 20C.



The reason the global climate is fairly stable year to year is because there are only a few variables that have significant impact – GHG warming effect being one (GHGs include some 5 or 6 major contributors), aerosol cooling effect being another, and others would include solar irradiance changes, irregular earth wobble and orbital patterns, earth’s albedo, soot, and land use. These, I think, are the major factors in determining the global energy balance/imbalance.

Here’s a chart of climate forcings (that would cause change, either warming or cooling):



Within the internal total earth system energy level, there are “sloshings” of the earth’s energy/heat which lead to some areas for a while becoming warmer than usual and others cooler (el nino/la nina is an example), but these do not affect global climate much, nor for very long.
 
Leaf, there are 30 competing theories trying to prop up a single theory that failed to pass the ‘Scientific Method’ It’s sad because we should instead have theories that genuinely compete with the failed AWG story on C02 being the root cause of all warming.

The consensus moving from 97% to a bare majority is a telling trend on what the experts now think of AWG. The trend will continue as more people focus on the actual science (or lack there of by AWG fans)

https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/thepause-graphic.jpg
Look, look, look. In the early 90s the models got it wrong by underestimating GW!

Boy, these modelers are so always wrong…
 
Look, look, look. In the early 90s the models got it wrong by underestimating GW!

Boy, these modelers are so always wrong…
Remember, the models had to account for the fact that the earth was changing from a cooling period. So the models are showing variation based on accounting for increases from the relatively cool point in the earth’s history. Again, chosen because it exagerates the increase more than if one starts the graph from the higher temps of the 40’s where the increase would be much flatter. Where you start the graph determines whether the earth is cooling or warming based on your chosen starting point. Again, one of the key flaws of the theory- it can not account for the causes of the earlier warming periods in earth’s history and how much if any of those natural causes are contributing to the temps today.

We’re finding out new info all the time-- natural methane release, claimed to be a far more powerful warming gas, is much higher than anticipated. Just within the past year scientists have discovered that arctic methane release and atlantic ocean floor release is higher than previously estimated.

cbsnews.com/news/underwater-methane-gas-plumes-erupting-along-atlantic-coast/

Now, I’m sure folks will claim these are caused by global warming, without any coherent theory as to mechanism.
 
Leaf, there are 30 competing theories trying to prop up a single theory that failed to pass the ‘Scientific Method’ It’s sad because we should instead have theories that genuinely compete with the failed AWG story on C02 being the root cause of all warming.
Well, then it seems the real sadness is that opponents of global warming have not advanced such theories, because if anyone should do it, you would think they would be the ones.
The consensus moving from 97% to a bare majority is a telling trend on what the experts now think of AWG. The trend will continue as more people…
Pure speculation of the same type that you would say led the misguided AGW proponents to say “This warming we have experienced up to 1995 is a telling trend, which will only continue as more data comes in.” That worked out so well for them, it’s bound to work out well for you too.

And which survey was that which showed the AMS members at 97% on the exact same question? Was it a totally different survey of totally different people? Well then those two results are definitely comparable, so as to establish a trend!
 
There are extremophile species that might do well with GW. I’ve even heard that there may be some microbal extremophiles up in the atmosphere of Venus…
Our current warming which could reach the same level as the PETM within a few 100 years – well who knows what will happen. There really isn’t any analog from the past.
No one is proposing conditions anything like Venus.

Distribution of temperature shift matters greatly. Expansion of growing seasons towards the poles is a major

As we have learned via invasive species, animal and plant migration can be extremely rapid. So can niche takeover and exploitation, and even physiological adaptation. Micro-species (those barely distinguished from other similar species within their genus) and small populations specialized withing small geographical niches may be especially vulnerable, but big scary numbers of speculated species extinctions would necessarily, statistically, target them. It’s not as if most life as we know it would become extinct. And yes, this loss of biodiversity may be an issue (except that the species mentioned before don’t tend to represent wide ranges, so have little overall impact), but it tends to clear the way for new explosions of adaptation and speciation.

So, once again, not much concerned about nature being able to handle it. A far bigger threat to biodiversity is desertification and habitat loss due to poor agricultural practices, and fisheries loss due to overfishing.

Those are the types of problems that we should be focusing on–they are also the types of problems that affect humans more quickly, more directly, and can more easily (and inexpensively) be controlled, to greater overall abundance to for humans. So plenty of incentives to address those problems, as opposed to the phantom menace of GW.
Considering that humans have never had to live through a warming hysteresis, as during the end-Permian when 95% of life died out, or the PETM when a good portion of species went extinct, it is hard to say how humans might fair. Some say we are mean and ornery enough to survive.
My particular concern is that GW, once we get up to 3, 4, 5, or 6C warming will have disasterous effects on food productivity. Without adequate food not many will be able to survive. I’m thinking within a century or two it will become like a vicious killer musical chairs of people scrambling and fighting each other to survive.
Eh. Expanded growing seasons will bring more food productivity. Intensive organic permaculture and aquaponics are agricultural approaches already poised to fill a gap or even usher in a new agricultural revolution if current predominant modes of agriculture fail.

Again, a simple principle is being overlooked: more available energy (heat) allows for more biological productivity (unless of course it gets too hot for life, but again, no one is actually proposing anything like that).

I’m surprised that you didn’t focus on seawater rise causing a loss of coastlines. This, I think, is the biggest impact to human infrastructure, given the large populations living along coastlines. Something we can adapt to, but probably the most significant economic cost area of adapting to warming trends.
I personally would rather turn off lights not in use today and the many others thing I can and am doing to mitigate GW and reduce my GHG emissions (and concomitant pollution) than risk such scenarios, even if by some people’s estimate those risks are fairly low.
Except that (as was pointed out by a poster earlier regarding the Kyoto Protocol), even by most of the estimates I’ve seen from scientists who are extremely worried about AGW and what major economic changes, pretty much anything we could do would have a pretty small effect. In fact, I’ve seen some discussion that according to some models, even a complete cessation of energy-related CO2 emissions would have little impact.

This is where I come back to the idea that it will most likely be much less costly, more politically-palatable, and easier to implement (since such implementation will happen naturally) to merely spend our money adapting to any climate shifts, like humanity has always done.
I just don’t like killing people. But that’s just me.
Destruction of economies will kill people. Even major reallocations of wealth can kill people.

We might actually be able to get somewhere as a society if radical environmentalists did not oppose nearly every reasonable and viable option, sacrificing it to NIMBY and ideals of stone age living and depopulation.

Even if they could only agree that nuclear energy is a huge part of the clean emissions solution, we might be able to get somewhere. But of course, that is opposed. As are, also, wind generators (they kill birds), tidal generators (they kill fish), thermal generators (they might potentially destabilize geology), and even solar thermal power plants (which, if you haven’t heard, also apparently kill large numbers of birds, lighting them up mid-air as their flight paths cross the solar reflector arrays; they call them “streamers” for the smoke plumes they emit as they smolder and streak through the air).

Another solution: let the radical environmentalists volunteer to start some stone age colonies and try to save the world themselves, while the rest of us go about seeking more reasonable approaches. 🙂
 
I think that happens less often than you would have us believe. Especially in research done by academic institutions, researchers enjoy a great deal of academic freedom. The researchers are much more interested in the integrity of their work than in coming to any specific preordained conclusion. On the other hand, research sponsored and conducted by corporations is much more likely to be pressured to produce the results that is most favorable to the corporation.
I think it happens more often that you would have us believe. Research has to be funded by something. More and more, it is the government funding research. You have to convince the government that your research is needed in order to get them to fund it. If global warming is not a problem, then why should the government fund research in it? Thus, scientists convince the population that something is a problem and then get government to fund their “research” to find a “solution”.
 
That depends on what sort of predictions you are trying to make. Some weather predictions are very easy to make: “This winter it will be colder than last summer”. It doesn’t take a supercomputer to make that prediction. I think even stone-age men could have managed that one. On the other hand, “One month from now it will be within 2 degrees of 70 in Kansas City” is a very difficult prediction to make. So sweeping statements about what is hard and what is easy are meaningless.
Okay, lets be specific. I think it is ridiculous to think that a we can predict how much the earth will warm or cool, by a specific amount of degrees, 10 years from now.
 
Yep, skeptic climate (bogus) “science” is heavily influenced by politics, actually more than by cash cow money (of which there is also aplenty). It is ideologically driven – like in a modern world using (very flawed) neoclassical economics as a guide where each man for his own and make it rich (and stomping on women and children to do so is “that’s the breaks”), climate change or any environmental limits to infinite accummulation of wealth, power, and glory is just impossible. It just can’t be happening. The climate scientists have got to be wrong. Why are they wrong. It’s obvious – they are impacted by greed, politics, and totalitarian conspiracy…

And if we have to lob death threats at them and their small children to put a halt to their ridiculous claims re AGW, then that’s what has to be done…
All science that is dependent on government for funding is necessarily influenced by politics, whether it is “real” science or not. You can deny it all you want, but it’s true.

You mention the word ideological. Remember, their are two sides to the aisle. It works both ways.

I never said they were wrong, I simply think that given how they are necessarily influenced by politics and given that I know how hard it is to model even simple systems, much less complex ones like climate, I don’t put much faith in their models or predictions. You can cal me a climate change denier all you want, but I have seen the models and I have seen the data and it is unconvincing to me, as it is to a lot of people.

People are not going to put the burden on themselves that you want them to unless they are fully convinced that global warming is real and that we can actually do something to stop it. You can call those people greedy, self interested, etc. but I would call them rational.
 
The point is climate is the statistical aggregate of weather (which is chaotic and difficult to predict more than 2 weeks out), but climate is not so chaotic and does not have nearly as many variables as local, short term weather patterns.
How can a aggregate model that depends on several chaotic models not be chaotic?

In order to understand the aggregate model, we have to understand the individual models that it is made up of. But we don’t.
 
Look, look, look. In the early 90s the models got it wrong by underestimating GW!

Boy, these modelers are so always wrong…
Modelers are usually wrong, that is the nature of modeling. It is not an easy task to model even a simple system and come up with reliable predictions.
 
Well, then it seems the real sadness is that opponents of global warming have not advanced such theories, because if anyone should do it, you would think they would be the ones.
You must know nothing about the Climate Change subject if you claim alternative causes have not been proposed.
And which survey was that which showed the AMS members at 97% on the exact same question? Was it a totally different survey of totally different people? Well then those two results are definitely comparable, so as to establish a trend!
No I don’t have the 97% survey details, but I did provide specifics for this survey, and it clearly doesn’t support the liberal narrative that we have consensus on AGW by the experts.

I believe there has been a dramatic increase in knowledge by the general population on the topic and science of climate change, especially since Gore promoted that embarrassing movie.
 
You must know nothing about the Climate Change subject if you claim alternative causes have not been proposed.
You were the one lamenting the lack of alternative theories:
Leaf, there are 30 competing theories trying to prop up a single theory that failed to pass the ‘Scientific Method’ It’s sad because we should instead have theories that genuinely compete with the failed AWG story on C02 being the root cause of all warming.
You would not have said “**we should instead…” **if you thought the thing that we should do was already being done.
No I don’t have the 97% survey details, but I did provide specifics for this survey, and it clearly doesn’t support the liberal narrative that we have consensus on AGW by the experts.
It also clearly doesn’t support your narrative of a massive shift in opinion by meteorologists.
 
You were the one lamenting the lack of alternative theories:

You would not have said “**we should instead…” **if you thought the thing that we should do was already being done.

It also clearly doesn’t support your narrative of a massive shift in opinion by meteorologists.
Seeing your weak deflection is downright depressing
  • The IPCC has promoted their junk science over the legitimate concerns of what you would call ‘deniers’
  • Study after study is showing natural variation to be a key driver of climate change. Even this specific study cuts the impact of CO2 in half (if you bothered to study it).
  • The AWG crowd has repeatedly claimed there was a scientific consensus. My survey data indicates the likely fallacy of that position. It’s a massive shift for AWG fanboys such as lynn and yourself. Obama is still confused about the level of agreement among scientists.
 
Seeing your weak deflection is downright depressing
…first it was sad, then it was depressing. Whatever.
  • The IPCC has promoted their junk science over the legitimate concerns of what you would call ‘deniers’
If it is junk science, then how is it that a majority of meteorologists, by the survey which you yourself cited, were and still are taken in by it, and yet you are strangely immune?
  • Study after study is showing natural variation to be a key driver of climate change. Even this specific study cuts the impact of CO2 in half (if you bothered to study it).
Which “specific study” is that? You cited a survey, not a study. Oh, you must mean the study that prompted this thread. The one about the slowdown lasting for another decade. So, are you in agreement with this specific study or not? You seem to be ever so anxious to adopt any aspect of the study that supports your position, but I’ll bet you don’t accept the end of this study where they say:
Eventually though, the salty water melts enough ice in Arctic waters to lower the saline level, slowing down the current and keeping the heat near the surface.
  • The AWG crowd has repeatedly claimed there was a scientific consensus.
And up to a few hours ago you seemed to be agreeing that at some time in the past there was a 97% consensus (a fact that I do not accept). So I guess you are more in the “AGW crowd” than I am.
It’s a massive shift for AWG fanboys such as lynn and yourself.
You can’t have a “massive shift” unless you first establish that consensus was much higher. I posit that the perhaps agreement about AGW has always been about 52% among meteorologists. So it is still 52%. That is hardly a “massive shift”.
 
Leaf,
read the questionnaire I posted. They didn’t vote their support of IPCC, they confirmed their belief that man influences the environment. Personally, I know the IPCC is bogus but I also believe than man influences his environment at an undetermined level.

Patrick Moore, who co-founded Greenpeace, sums it up well with some key facts about “climate change” which are ignored by true believers such as yourself and lynn.
  1. The concentration of CO2 in the global atmosphere is lower today, even including human emissions, than it has been during most of the existence of life on Earth.
  2. The global climate has been much warmer than it is today during most of the existence of life on Earth. Today we are in an interglacial period of the Pleistocene Ice Age that began 2.5 million years ago and has not ended.
  3. There was an Ice Age 450 million years ago when CO2 was about 10 times higher than it is today.
  4. Humans evolved in the tropics near the equator. We are a tropical species and can only survive in colder climates due to fire, clothing and shelter.
  5. CO2 is the most important food for all life on earth. All green plants use CO2 to produce the sugars that provide energy for their growth and our growth. Without CO2 in the atmosphere carbon-based life could never have evolved.
  6. The optimum CO2 level for most plants is about 1600 parts per million, four times higher than the level today. This is why greenhouse growers purposely inject the CO2-rich exhaust from their gas and wood-fired heaters into the greenhouse, resulting in a 40-80 per cent increase in growth.
  7. If human emissions of CO2 do end up causing significant warming (which is not certain) it may be possible to grow food crops in northern Canada and Russia, vast areas that are now too cold for agriculture.
  8. Whether increased CO2 levels cause significant warming or not, the increased CO2 levels themselves will result in considerable increases in the growth rate of plants, including our food crops and forests.
  9. There has been no further global warming for nearly 18 years during which time about 25 per cent of all the CO2 ever emitted by humans has been added to the atmosphere. How long will it remain flat and will it next go up or back down? Now we are out of the realm of facts and back into the game of predictions.
 
Leaf,
read the questionnaire I posted. They didn’t vote their support of IPCC, they confirmed their belief that man influences the environment. Personally, I know the IPCC is bogus but I also believe than man influences his environment at an undetermined level.
When did I say they voted their support of IPCC? You said AGW was junk science. 52% of meteorologists disagree with you. I still want to know why the fact that AGW is junk science is so obvious to you when AGW has fooled a majority of meteologists? (And it is not clear that the other 48% all think AGW is junk science either.).
Patrick Moore, who co-founded Greenpeace
Why is this an authority I should listen to?
…sums it up well with some key facts about “climate change” which are ignored by true believers such as yourself and lynn.
  1. The concentration of CO2 in the global atmosphere is lower today, even including human emissions, than it has been during most of the existence of life on Earth.
Yes, but not human life.
  1. The global climate has been much warmer than it is today during most of the existence of life on Earth. Today we are in an interglacial period of the Pleistocene Ice Age that began 2.5 million years ago and has not ended.
It is interesting that the same people who can tell what the weather will be like a million years from now are unable to say what the weather will be like 100 years from now.
  1. There was an Ice Age 450 million years ago when CO2 was about 10 times higher than it is today.
Which proves what? That CO2 causes ice ages?
  1. Humans evolved in the tropics near the equator. We are a tropical species and can only survive in colder climates due to fire, clothing and shelter.
You’re not suggesting we abandon fire, clothing, and shelter, are you?
  1. CO2 is the most important food for all life on earth. All green plants use CO2 to produce the sugars that provide energy for their growth and our growth. Without CO2 in the atmosphere carbon-based life could never have evolved.
I’m not sure any one of the several absolutely essential components of life can properly be called “the most important”.
  1. The optimum CO2 level for most plants is about 1600 parts per million, four times higher than the level today. This is why greenhouse growers purposely inject the CO2-rich exhaust from their gas and wood-fired heaters into the greenhouse, resulting in a 40-80 per cent increase in growth.
  1. If human emissions of CO2 do end up causing significant warming (which is not certain) it may be possible to grow food crops in northern Canada and Russia, vast areas that are now too cold for agriculture.
  1. Whether increased CO2 levels cause significant warming or not, the increased CO2 levels themselves will result in considerable increases in the growth rate of plants, including our food crops and forests.
If your primary goal is to create a world that is ideal for plants and ignore all the humans who would be adversely affected, go ahead and burn all the oil and coal you can.
  1. There has been no further global warming for nearly 18 years during which time about 25 per cent of all the CO2 ever emitted by humans has been added to the atmosphere. How long will it remain flat and will it next go up or back down? Now we are out of the realm of facts and back into the game of predictions.
This “pause” is so funny. Back in 1995, before the pause, there were global warming skeptics then too. And they said “This warming we have experienced over the last 30 years is just a natural variation. Over the long run, global temperatures will not rise.”. Now, in 2014, the global warming skeptics have changed their focus to say “This lack of warming over the last 18 years is really significant. You AGW guys and your long-range predictions!”. It seems the skeptics pick whatever view (long range or short range) is most suitable to prove their point, even if it means switching views mid-stream.
 
Distribution of temperature shift matters greatly. Expansion of growing seasons towards the poles is a major…
Just thought you all should know, the soil is very poor up in the arctic and subarctic areas (in case you were hoping your progeny could all move there). Got that info from someone who lives there. Who knew? but it make sense since the permafrost has not allowed for the necessary decomposition year after year to create good topsoil.
Expanded growing seasons will bring more food productivity…
You may be right, crops will get an earlier start and don’t forget CO2 fertilization. I’m sure they’ll be doing much better by mid-July than crops now…up until that extreme heatwave and drought conditions kill them, as happened a couple of years ago in the midwest…sort like a preview of worse to come.

Warmer temps hold more water vapor – sucks it right out of water bodies, soil, and plants.

Of course that doesn’t mean it won’t rain, but it does mean when it rains it pours a deluge. Crops don’t like that either. I took a organic gardening course and found out roots need oxygen and plants can “drown.” Who knew?
I’m surprised that you didn’t focus on seawater rise causing a loss of coastlines.
I have mentioned it elsewhere, but I think threats to food productivity a more important issue, tho that also involves searise inundation hitting some of the most agri productive areas around the world, like deltas, like much of Bangladesh. Good point. Except Bangladesh with its 150 million mainly poor people won’t be able to adapt, build extensive dikes, etc.
Destruction of economies will kill people. Even major reallocations of wealth can kill people.
That is for sure, and the economic damage caused by climate change impacts will reach everyone, not just those in harms way from sea rise, floods, droughts, storms, disease spread, etc. Everyone. Then when people can’t afford products, it will also hurt big biz. Everyone.
We might actually be able to get somewhere as a society if radical environmentalists did not oppose nearly every reasonable and viable option, sacrificing it to NIMBY and ideals of stone age living and depopulation.
Well, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I, a radical environmentalist, have always been promoting “going green, saving green” without lower living standards, maybe even increasing them a bit. We in rich countries can reduce GHGs and concomitant harmful pollution by 60%, even 75% without lowering living standards or productivity – which will take at least 10 or more years to implement even if we really get going on it (I know this from personal experience – it actually took us some 20 years to reduce by 60%). At that point we can reassess and figure if we need to sacrifice a thimbleful or maybe a bucketful of our living standard. Good idea. Too bad people are zonked in like zombies to profligate inefficient, non-conservative, environmentally AND economically harmful lifestyles.

Whatever happened to “waste not, want not,” or “a penny saved is a penny earned.”
 
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