Glory Be in the Divine Office

[Secant]

In my husband’s copy of the Liturgy of the Hours, it calls for us to pray,

“Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen.”

In my copy, we are told to pray,

“Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end, Amen.”

Obviously this causes confusion when we try to pray together. Why is this different?

 

[JM3]

In my husband’s copy of the Liturgy of the Hours, it calls for us to pray,

“Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen.”

In my copy, we are told to pray,

“Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end, Amen.”

Obviously this causes confusion when we try to pray together. Why is this different?

You could pray it in Latin.

 

[porthos11]

You could pray it in Latin.

“Pray in Latin” is not a catch-all solution to every question and problem, especially when there is value in the vernacular, such as with lay people performing the esteemed gift of the Office.

In my husband’s copy of the Liturgy of the Hours, it calls for us to pray,

“Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen.”

In my copy, we are told to pray,

“Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit: as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end, Amen.”

Obviously this causes confusion when we try to pray together. Why is this different?

What is likely happening is that there is a difference between editions, which is a bad idea for common prayer. This is why countries or regions standardize on approved editions.

So to help with the confusion and figure out next steps, please answer these questions:

1. Where do you live (country)?
2. What edition of the book are you using (key information may be the title, publisher and ISBN)?
3. What edition of the book is your husband using (same information, title, publisher, ISBN)?

 

[Phemie]

What is likely happening is that there is a difference between editions, which is a bad idea for common prayer. This is why countries or regions standardize on approved editions.

So to help with the confusion and figure out next steps, please answer these questions:

1. Where do you live (country)?
2. What edition of the book are you using (key information may be the title, publisher and ISBN)?
3. What edition of the book is your husband using (same information, title, publisher, ISBN)?

The same difference exists between the Universalis and the Divine Litugy apps.

 

[Secant]

In response to porthos11,

1. USA
2. I use the Laudate app for mine.
3. He uses “The Liturgy of the Hours” four book version by the Catholic Book Publishing Corp 1975. (No idea where to find the ISBN on the leather bound book, but it’s the one our priest recommended and has for himself.)

As a note, we haven’t noticed any other differences between our Liturgy of the Hours. Just the one prayer.

 

[porthos11]

In response to porthos11,

1. USA
2. I use the Laudate app for mine.
3. He uses “The Liturgy of the Hours” four book version by the Catholic Book Publishing Corp 1975. (No idea where to find the ISBN on the leather bound book, but it’s the one our priest recommended and has for himself.)

As a note, we haven’t noticed any other differences between our Liturgy of the Hours. Just the one prayer.

The information is sufficient.

Your husband is using the correct text.

In the United States, “…will be forever” is the official conclusion in the LOTH.

 

[Secant]

Porthos,
Thank you for confirming the correct one. However, do you know why the Glory Be that I learned in Catholic School (admittedly for use in the Rosary, not the Divine Office) is considered wrong? I will of course be using the correct one, but I don’t understand why there is a difference and why the easier prayer is incorrect.

 

[porthos11]

Porthos,
Thank you for confirming the correct one. However, do you know why the Glory Be that I learned in Catholic School (admittedly for use in the Rosary, not the Divine Office) is considered wrong? I will of course be using the correct one, but I don’t understand why there is a difference and why the easier prayer is incorrect.

It’s not “wrong”; it’s only a different translation of “in saecula saculorum”, lit. “unto ages upon ages.”

“…world without end” is the traditional translation and is used in older English works such as the Anglican Book of Common Prayer.

“…will be forever” is the ICET translation adopted by the USCCB and other bishops’ conferences for use in the liturgy that uses the 1973 ICEL translation.

Because the Liturgy of the Hours is liturgy, it is governed by the Church, and for the United States, a particular translation has been adopted. So that’s what we go with. Perhaps with the upcoming translation revision, “…world without end” might be adopted in some way once again.

One is still free to use “…world without end” for personal devotions such as the Rosary.

Other editions not approved for use in North America does use the “…world without end” form (the African edition, the British edition).

 

[DebChris]

I just say the Doxology that I am familiar with.
The words are a guide for those who unfamiliar with the Glory Be.
“Glory Be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the Beginning is now and ever shall Be, World without End. Amen.”

It’s the same as when saying the Rosary.

There is no need to learn a separate formula for different prayers that you may use during the course of the day.

 

[drforjc]

I just say the Doxology that I am familiar with.
The words are a guide for those who unfamiliar with the Glory Be.
“Glory Be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the Beginning is now and ever shall Be, World without End. Amen.”

It’s the same as when saying the Rosary.

There is no need to learn a separate formula for different prayers that you may use during the course of the day.

That same logic would excuse any priest changing, at will, the texts of the mass, which we know is not to be done.

LOTH is the public prayer of the church, and includes approved translations just as the Mass does.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I just say the Doxology that I am familiar with.
The words are a guide for those who unfamiliar with the Glory Be.
“Glory Be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the Beginning is now and ever shall Be, World without End. Amen.”

It’s the same as when saying the Rosary.

There is no need to learn a separate formula for different prayers that you may use during the course of the day.

Yes, there is…when you have been granted by the Church the very great privilege of celebrating her liturgy.

The Liturgy of the Hours is never the prayer of an individual…it is the Church’s own prayer to her Divine Spouse. Any individual praying it must always bear that in mind.

Unlike the Liturgy of the Hours, the Rosary is a private devotion; it cannot be in any way equated to the liturgy.

 

[DebChris]

That same logic would excuse any priest changing, at will, the texts of the mass, which we know is not to be done.

LOTH is the public prayer of the church, and includes approved translations just as the Mass does.

The doxology is only listed on the 1st Sunday reading of the first week.
The couple is praying together as a couple, and there is a generally accepted translation.
It is the same with the Our Father, which has a generally accepted translation.

None of the other prayers within the LOTH are changed.
The Night Prayer, for example recommends an examination of conscience at the beginning. It does not include the Examination of Conscience to be used. There is some room for discretion. At the end, likewise, an individual may use the Marian prayer of choice.
Until I had my own 4 volume set of the LOTH, I used my own spiritual reading for the non-Scriptural selections for the Office of Readings.
Living overseas, I bought the 3 volume set, since as an earlier poster mentioned a different translation is indeed used overseas for the Mass than stateside. Nevertheless, the doxology for both stateside and overseas is still the one with which I am familiar. It is the one that I use during the rosary.
Yes, I did go through Spiritual direction using the single Christian Prayer until I could afford to pay for the full volume sets.
Do I prefer having being able to use the authentic 3 or 4 volume set with same non-scriptural reading that the rest of the Church is reading? Absolutely.
That does not make my reading of St. Teresa’s of Avila, Ignatius, or John of the Cross any less valid.

 

[corsair]

The main problem in translating from one language to another is that there is very little that is definitively defined. The interpreter will find all kinds of inflections hidden in the various languages. Most any word can have several meanings. Most folks accept the “intent” of the passage rather than an exact word for word translation.

Does that make sense?

God Bless

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Perhaps not satisfying…but it is a not un-useful introduction to the path upon which they are embarking, which often demands a great docility.

How many times in the course of my priesthood have I carried out something precisely, and uniquely, because it was the command of the bishop/competent ecclesiastical authority.

Texts employed in the liturgy follow their own path into existence. Thus it happens that texts will exist side by side with one form being what has been classically used in popular devotions while another form will be mandated for liturgical use.

There is the prayer that is used after the Angelus.
Gratiam tuam, quaesumus, Domine, mentibus nostris infunde; ut qui, Angelo nuntiante, Christi Filii tui incarnationem cognovimus, per passionem eius et crucem ad resurrectionis gloriam perducamur. Per eundem Christum Dominum nostrum
Which is offered rendered in English as
Pour forth, we beseech Thee, Lord, Thy grace into our hearts; that, as we have known the Incarnation of Christ, Thy Son, by the message of an angel, so by His Passion and Cross we may be brought to the glory of the Resurrection. Through the same Christ our Lord.
or as
Pour forth, we beseech Thee, O Lord, Thy grace into our hearts; that we to whom the Incarnation of Christ, Thy Son, was made known by the message of an angel may by His Passion and Cross be brought to the glory of His Resurrection. Through the same Christ our Lord.
This is, of course, the prayer of the 4th Sunday of Advent, which is in today’s iteration of the Missal rendered as:
Pour forth, we beseech you, O Lord, your grace into our hearts, that we, to whom the Incarnation of Christ your Son was made known by the message of an Angel may by His Passion and Cross be brought to the glory of his Resurrection. Who lives and reigns with You in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

The doxology is only listed on the 1st Sunday reading of the first week.
The couple is praying together as a couple, and there is a generally accepted translation.
It is the same with the Our Father, which has a generally accepted translation.

None of the other prayers within the LOTH are changed.
The Night Prayer, for example recommends an examination of conscience at the beginning. It does not include the Examination of Conscience to be used. There is some room for discretion. At the end, likewise, an individual may use the Marian prayer of choice.
Until I had my own 4 volume set of the LOTH, I used my own spiritual reading for the non-Scriptural selections for the Office of Readings.
Living overseas, I bought the 3 volume set, since as an earlier poster mentioned a different translation is indeed used overseas for the Mass than stateside. Nevertheless, the doxology for both stateside and overseas is still the one with which I am familiar. It is the one that I use during the rosary.
Yes, I did go through Spiritual direction using the single Christian Prayer until I could afford to pay for the full volume sets.
Do I prefer having being able to use the authentic 3 or 4 volume set with same non-scriptural reading that the rest of the Church is reading? Absolutely.
That does not make my reading of St. Teresa’s of Avila, Ignatius, or John of the Cross any less valid.

1. The doxology, as given in the Office for Sunday week 1 is the one to be employed in every instance.
2. The examination of conscience is a brief pause of reflection to recall to mind the faults before proceeding…the same is true at the penitential rite within the Mass, which is made clear in both the invitation spoken by the Presider and by the accompanying rubric.
3. As for the readings in the Office of Readings, the ones to be used are governed and prescribed under paragraphs 159ff of the General Instruction for the Liturgy of the Hours.
   *VII The Readings from the Fathers and Church Writers

159 According to the tradition of the Roman Church, the biblical passage in the Office of Readings is followed by a reading from the Fathers or Church writers with a responsory, unless a hagiographical reading is to be said (cf nn 228–239).

160 In this reading texts are offered from the writings of the Fathers, Doctors and other Church writers from the East and the West. Pride of place is given to the Fathers, who enjoy special authority in the Church.

161 Besides the readings assigned to each day in The Divine Office, there is an optional Lectionary. This offers a much larger collection of readings in which the treasures of the Church’s tradition are opened more widely to those praying the Divine Office. One is allowed to take the second reading either from The Divine Office or from the optional Lectionary.

162 Episcopal Conferences may prepare other additional texts which are in harmony with the traditions and mentality of their own area; these texts may form a supplement to the optional Lectionary. They should be taken from the works of Catholic writers outstanding for their teaching and holiness of life.*
I would no more deviate from the prescribed options in celebrating the Liturgy of the Hours than I would in celebrating the Eucharist, and substituting my own illegitimate choices. Where there are options, one may choose…but one reaches a boundary where those options stop.

It is not, after all, one’s personal prayer or one’s private devotion. It is the Church’s liturgy…of which she makes the dispositions.

The rubrics carefully lay out what may be done. In all cases involving the liturgy…Eucharist, LOTH, or the Rites for the Sacraments, were I not to comply, I would be violating the integrity of the Church’s liturgical celebration.

The above pericope is from the GILH as published by the Liturgy Office of the United Kingdom.

The GILH as published for the Roman Breviary edition for the United States may be found at: ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWGILH.HTM

 

[porthos11]

The doxology is only listed on the 1st Sunday reading of the first week.
The couple is praying together as a couple, and there is a generally accepted translation.
It is the same with the Our Father, which has a generally accepted translation.

None of the other prayers within the LOTH are changed.
The Night Prayer, for example recommends an examination of conscience at the beginning. It does not include the Examination of Conscience to be used. There is some room for discretion. At the end, likewise, an individual may use the Marian prayer of choice.
Until I had my own 4 volume set of the LOTH, I used my own spiritual reading for the non-Scriptural selections for the Office of Readings.
Living overseas, I bought the 3 volume set, since as an earlier poster mentioned a different translation is indeed used overseas for the Mass than stateside. Nevertheless, the doxology for both stateside and overseas is still the one with which I am familiar. It is the one that I use during the rosary.
Yes, I did go through Spiritual direction using the single Christian Prayer until I could afford to pay for the full volume sets.
Do I prefer having being able to use the authentic 3 or 4 volume set with same non-scriptural reading that the rest of the Church is reading? Absolutely.
That does not make my reading of St. Teresa’s of Avila, Ignatius, or John of the Cross any less valid.

These are not good comparisons. The Examination of Conscience, the Marian Antiphons, and even the abbreviated reading choices in Christian Prayer vs. the full readings in the four-volume are all legitimate, approved options.

The Doxology for the North American edition does NOT come with options. There is currently only one approved translation for use during the Liturgy of the Hours, and it is the one printed in the book. That it’s printed in full only after the first Psalm of Sunday I, Evening Prayer I is beside the point. It sets the standard Doxology for use throughout the Office, and the rubric printed under it makes that point clear.

As a counterpoint, the British and African editions do use the more traditional version and do NOT offer the option of the North American version.

We use the version approved for public, liturgical prayer. Comparing to the Rosary is not valid because the Rosary is a private devotion; one is free to say it any way one wants.

 

[porthos11]

Perhaps not satisfying…but it is a not un-useful introduction to the path upon which they are embarking, which often demands a great docility.

How many times in the course of my priesthood have I carried out something precisely, and uniquely, because it was the command of the bishop/competent ecclesiastical authority.

Texts employed in the liturgy follow their own path into existence. Thus it happens that texts will exist side by side with one form being what has been classically used in popular devotions while another form will be mandated for liturgical use.

There is the prayer that is used after the Angelus.
Gratiam tuam, quaesumus, Domine, mentibus nostris infunde; ut qui, Angelo nuntiante, Christi Filii tui incarnationem cognovimus, per passionem eius et crucem ad resurrectionis gloriam perducamur. Per eundem Christum Dominum nostrum
Which is offered rendered in English as
Pour forth, we beseech Thee, Lord, Thy grace into our hearts; that, as we have known the Incarnation of Christ, Thy Son, by the message of an angel, so by His Passion and Cross we may be brought to the glory of the Resurrection. Through the same Christ our Lord.
or as
Pour forth, we beseech Thee, O Lord, Thy grace into our hearts; that we to whom the Incarnation of Christ, Thy Son, was made known by the message of an angel may by His Passion and Cross be brought to the glory of His Resurrection. Through the same Christ our Lord.
This is, of course, the prayer of the 4th Sunday of Advent, which is in today’s iteration of the Missal rendered as:
Pour forth, we beseech you, O Lord, your grace into our hearts, that we, to whom the Incarnation of Christ your Son was made known by the message of an Angel may by His Passion and Cross be brought to the glory of his Resurrection. Who lives and reigns with You in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever.

Current North American Liturgy of the Hours (1973 ICEL):

Lord, fill us with your love. And as you revealed to us by an angel the coming of your Son as man, so lead us through his suffering and death to the glory of his resurrection, for he lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God forever and ever.

Until the Office is retranslated, this remains the normative, licit rendering of the prayer for people praying it, with the Missal translation a legitimate option (in the United States). But the point remains: it’s a known prayer due to the Angelus, but it has a rendering for liturgical use. In the liturgy we use it as printed, not as we’re used to.

 

[DebChris]

These are not good comparisons. The Examination of Conscience, the Marian Antiphons, and even the abbreviated reading choices in Christian Prayer vs. the full readings in the four-volume are all legitimate, approved options.

The Doxology for the North American edition does NOT come with options. There is currently only one approved translation for use during the Liturgy of the Hours, and it is the one printed in the book. That it’s printed in full only after the first Psalm of Sunday I, Evening Prayer I is beside the point. It sets the standard Doxology for use throughout the Office, and the rubric printed under it makes that point clear.

As a counterpoint, the British and African editions do use the more traditional version and do NOT offer the option of the North American version.

We use the version approved for public, liturgical prayer. Comparing to the Rosary is not valid because the Rosary is a private devotion; one is free to say it any way one wants.

I used the British version of the LOTH when overseas.
The reason I used the rosary is simply because it is a commonly said prayer.
The doxology is also a commonly said prayer within the rosary.
It is also recited after every psalm as it is after every decade of the rosary.
My purpose of posting was not to make the LOTH any more complicated than necessary.

During the general daily prayer responsory, all that is written is Glory Be…
Like the Our Father and Hail Mary, most individuals who are cradle Catholics have been taught these prayers since childhood and do not deviate from the set formulas.

Those who are not cradle Catholics or who are unfamiliar with the prayers may choose to read them.
The first time I was introduced to the LOTH was during a crisis point in my life. I made a private Easter retreat. It has been a natural part of prayer life since then. When I had a vehicle, I kept the Shorter Christian Prayer in my glove compartment.
I am very much aware that the rosary is a private devotion that is often prayed in groups while the LOTH is the prayer of the Church that is often prayed privately.

 

[angeltime]

Pax et Bonum! Perhaps go with the older version and/or one just give in and say it the same as the other - the meaning is the same…angeltime[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

 

[drforjc]

My purpose of posting was not to make the LOTH any more complicated than necessary.

Do you see the irony? Simply pray the LOTH as it appears in the books.